Is this the norm when adding new to group?

[Mini Love]

Hi everyone,

I posted a few weeks ago about adding a mare & a foal to My 2 mini's... Well Mare and foal spent the last 4 weeks in there own small area, there fence aera was shared to the pasture with Dollie & Booker. Dollie & Booker got along great with the foal, she would place her body up against the fence to be groomed on, the foal would run little laps while Booker & dollie ran there big laps.. The Mare didnt want much to do with them, there was very little face to face with the others, I did see her kind of rub on bookers face once. Well the farrier came yesterday did every ones hooves, Dollie & Booker were in there mini barn, So we brought the mare & foal in to the pasture, they ran around a bit the mare was more in to eating grass while the foal ran her little but off, she was going up to the barn, they could see her & she could see them... like lets play LOL... after an hour I left Dollie out of the barn, she really had no intrest in the foal or mare, so a bit later I let Booker out - I thought he would of run right to them but he didnt? after a little bit, Booker & Dollie headed over to them with a fast walk, but didnt run. They got to smell the foal & mare for Little bit, then there was a little run with all 4 of them, then The mare went back to eating grass. Booker & Dollie stayed near by The Mare & Foal.... after about 1/2 hour there was a change in the Mare's behavior, she did not want any one near the foal, So Booker & Dollie took a few lil kicks, But the poor things had no idea not to be near the foal or she would get mad??? So I stayed at the fence line sometimes peeking so they could not see me & watched all day so if need be i was right there to brake up any thing. Never came to that . Booker tried to get close off and on for a couple of hours and The mare was not having it, and when i say close i am talking 20 to 30 feet and the mare would run him off. The foal would head to him and the mare would rush past the foal turn her but tords booker and walk backwards, sometimes this was a 10 to 20 foot walk backwards tords him, so odd to see her walk backwards that far, by then he knew NO going near the foal or i will kick the snot out of you & if she heads your way you need to go some were else.

I know this was day one and this am was the same & it hasnt been 24 hours yet. So I am pray this will all smooth over and they will all be a happy bunch

I am thinking this is the norm, she a mom in with new ones. Just feel bad for Dollie & Booker & the foal

I have closed up the mini barn - Right now i dont want any crammed areas if one should be to near the foal.

Is this the norm?

Is there anything I should be doing to stop her behavior?

The pic with them all by one another is when they all 1st got together

The pic with no one near the mare and foal was about 6 hours later & it had been like that about an hour in to everyone being together .. Poor Booker looks so sad.

The mare is about 8 years old & may be in foal & was very under weight a month and a half ago

The foal is 3 to 4 months old

Booker is 2 and a stud

Dollie is 3 & has never been in foal.

I hope time will help them because if not I will have get rid of the mare, I know she had a hard life the last few years & I want to help her and give her a happy home... But right now it is not so happy

 

[kaykay]

Totally normal. Just give them some time and they will all settle down. Mine do the same thing when we put a mare and new foal out and they have lived together for years! She is just being protective until shes comfortable and sure that no one is going to hurt her foal. Shes being a good mama!

 

[cretahillsgal]

Sounds perfectly normal to me. Mild even. Momma is just be cautious. I bet she will have no problems with the foal playing with the other horses in no time.

 

[Mini Love]

I was praying that was what i would hear, Thank You - I dont plan on adding any more so I hope they have be happy lil bunch.

 

[Jill]

I agree, completely normal. It will take awhile sometimes, but once the pecking order is established, it's almost always smooth sailing thereafter. From the pictures, you have plenty of room for the horses to get out of each others' ways. I don't think you've got any reason to be worried

 

[Mini Love]

I agree, completely normal. It will take awhile sometimes, but once the pecking order is established, it's almost always smooth sailing thereafter. From the pictures, you have plenty of room for the horses to get out of each others' ways. I don't think you've got any reason to be worried

They have an acre, The mini barn is open with no stall, it is 10 by 20 with the door way on the 20 foot side and its a 6 foot door way.. But i will keep that closed untill it is safe and no more running off and kicking is going on.... I think she will be at the top of the pole.. Booker & Dollie are so laid back, i was feeling bad when the mare was doing that to them but it seems they know there limits, as long as the foal does not go to them - They are staying away LOL

 

[Heart of Gold Minis]

I don't know if this has already been discussed, but I would be kind of concerned with the stud in with your mares. He could easily breed the 3 yr old mare, or if the foal's momma isn't already back in foal then he could breed her too... So sorry if this has already been discussed. If you want to keep him a stud, then its your choice. This is JMO.

P.S. Your foal is very cute!

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

Herd dynamics! You're two mares will work out their pecking order and depending on how dominant your mares are versus your stallion too.

I have horses here that are so laid back, but having gone to other ranches (breeding or sold) turn very alpha. And vice versa.

You're doing the right thing watching them, but it sounds like they'll work it out.

 

[Eagle]

Yep, I agree with everyone, all sounds normal to me too. She is just being a good mama. Give her a little while and they will have it all sorted out. My compliments for your lovely pasture.

 

[AnnaC]

Yes, as has been said, the mare will keep them away from her baby and try to keep baby away from them until she is entirely confident with her new friends! Well done for shutting your barn up - unless you have an entrance at, say, one end and a possible 'escape' exit at the other, there are too many corners in a barn for someone to get 'trapped' in if there was a kicking match!

I also agree that, apart from the fact that your stud has probably already covered your 3 year old, I would keep him well away from your new mare as, in my opinion, he is both too tall and too heavy boned to take the risk of him covering her! (Judging from your pictures she is both a lot smaller than him and a lot lighter in build, and you could be in serious trouble at foaling time.) Please think seriously about this.

 

[Mini Love]

Herd dynamics! You're two mares will work out their pecking order and depending on how dominant your mares are versus your stallion too.

I have horses here that are so laid back, but having gone to other ranches (breeding or sold) turn very alpha. And vice versa.

You're doing the right thing watching them, but it sounds like they'll work it out.

1/2 a day and i see the mare getting more side track on keeping up on the foal, The foal will run off to see the others.. But Booker and Dollie seem to be like NO go away and start walking away from her, well she follows in tow so they walk faster, its kinda funny how fast they pick up on dont be near the foal. Sad thing is for the last 4 weeks they were able to be itching & rubbing on her through the fence and the mare never gave it a 2nd looked, I think thats what shocked me after 4 weeks and being that way I thought it would be good to go. I all so have a pen in side of the pasture 12 by 10 board and fence with a door way only the foal can fit in... Her way to safty if need be & a way to feed her with out mom getting her food in time. She was in there sleeping and the mare stood & grazed near by. This is what i did for booker when he was a few months old and needed to eat more then the others since he didnt have his mom, his food was safe & he was safe we called it the Booker Hutt it was only 6 by 6.

I feel much better about it today & now.. at first I thought what have I done poor Booker & Dollie But it is slowly woking out.

 

[Mini Love]

1/2 a day and i see the mare getting more side track on keeping up on the foal, The foal will run off to see the others.. But Booker and Dollie seem to be like NO go away and start walking away from her, well she follows in tow so they walk faster, its kinda funny how fast they pick up on dont be near the foal. Sad thing is for the last 4 weeks they were able to be itching & rubbing on her through the fence and the mare never gave it a 2nd looked, I think thats what shocked me after 4 weeks and being that way I thought it would be good to go. I all so have a pen in side of the pasture 12 by 10 board and fence with a door way only the foal can fit in... Her way to safty if need be & a way to feed her with out mom getting her food in time. She was in there sleeping and the mare stood & grazed near by. This is what i did for booker when he was a few months old and needed to eat more then the others since he didnt have his mom, his food was safe & he was safe we called it the Booker Hutt it was only 6 by 6.

I feel much better about it today & now.. at first I thought what have I done poor Booker & Dollie But it is slowly woking out.

Pic of the pen with the sleeping foal we named her Baby Girl & only she can fit in the door way - its to short & to thin for anyone else, ther is a white 4 by 4 grate slid into place at the door way giving her about 18 inches wide to get in & it can be closed if need be.

 

[Mini Love]

Yes, as has been said, the mare will keep them away from her baby and try to keep baby away from them until she is entirely confident with her new friends! Well done for shutting your barn up - unless you have an entrance at, say, one end and a possible 'escape' exit at the other, there are too many corners in a barn for someone to get 'trapped' in if there was a kicking match!

I also agree that, apart from the fact that your stud has probably already covered your 3 year old, I would keep him well away from your new mare as, in my opinion, he is both too tall and too heavy boned to take the risk of him covering her! (Judging from your pictures she is both a lot smaller than him and a lot lighter in build, and you could be in serious trouble at foaling time.) Please think seriously about this.

Hi I added 2 pic's so you could there size a little better Booker the stud is a good bit smaller then Dollie 3 year mare - he is only a 2 inches taller then the mare Missy. The odd thing is I dont think he knows what he is doing.. he shows no studd behavior, We have seen him in a playful way put his front legs up on Dollie a few times BUT at the side of her and that took a good bit of sponk... He is FAT as my farrier keeps telling me

He told me to not feed him or Dollie any food.. Just hay & grass and see how he looks in 4 weeks, we cut there food 4 weeks ago to very little & no change. I dont really want to geld him unless i have to.

 

[Eagle]

What a great pen and baby girl seems to like it too

Don't feel bad about putting them together, it is all normal and before you know it they will all be friends. I had a mare called Kim that for some strange reason always gives birth to Houdini foals that love to escape into the pasture with the other mares, Kim is fine about it and never gets upset. It drove me nuts bc I would pass all my time going and getting her, mama couldn't care less. When they got put back in the herd Kim would go nuts if her foals went near the other horses and chased everyone away for at least a week. The other mares just look at her dumbfounded and wandered off to a safe distance. She came back this summer to be covered and guess what??? her 2011 foal is a Houdini filly too

 

[Mini Love]

What a great pen and baby girl seems to like it too

Don't feel bad about putting them together, it is all normal and before you know it they will all be friends. I had a mare called Kim that for some strange reason always gives birth to Houdini foals that love to escape into the pasture with the other mares, Kim is fine about it and never gets upset. It drove me nuts bc I would pass all my time going and getting her, mama couldn't care less. When they got put back in the herd Kim would go nuts if her foals went near the other horses and chased everyone away for at least a week. The other mares just look at her dumbfounded and wandered off to a safe distance. She came back this summer to be covered and guess what??? her 2011 foal is a Houdini filly too

Thank You for liking the pasture, we still have a few brush piles to burn, just waiting for a good amount of rain to be allowed to burn, Yea I think it will all work out, at our old place we had trouble with old fence giving way when the rubbed there but, so then we did solar tape fence it was ok aside from someone turning it off and when it would get windy or icey.. Booker got out a few times and ate his self sick in the hay field right beside the pasture, he didnt go 20 feet away but ate for hours, I was so afraid he would colic but he didnt he was just sick didnt eat for a few days.. So once we moved and there was nothing I knew what i wanted & how I wanted it - it was hard work LOL we couldnt put in another t post after 39 so we paid someone to come put in the last 26 we did 1/2 acre for the dog's to. after all the fence I hope she stays in GOOD LUCK with your new Houdini I hope she doesnt go to far when she gets out.

 

[Mini Love]

That's a great pen for creep-feeding the foal when she's weaning! Very nice!

Thank You, we made good use of a chicken run LOL we moved and put in a chicken building & had ro redo our run sizes, This was a run from the old house and I thought we just spent all that money to make there has to be something we can use it for... & hear it is

 

[wingnut]

Totally normal. She will eventually relax. They will work it out. It could be worse. As long as they are respecting her wishes and staying away, she will relax and eventually they will become a herd. You'll be surprised how quickly it happens.

With each addition to our herd, our boss mare literally acts as if she's going to KILL the newcomer(s)...despite having NO FOAL by her side. Even when our two girls who came (individually) as weanlings! She wanted to run them to the GROUND and would have if we hadn't intervened. It took about 10 days of slow and limited introduction/exposure. The same happened when we brought the two new 2 yr olds in in April.

 

[Mini Love]

Totally normal. She will eventually relax. They will work it out. It could be worse. As long as they are respecting her wishes and staying away, she will relax and eventually they will become a herd. You'll be surprised how quickly it happens.

With each addition to our herd, our boss mare literally acts as if she's going to KILL the newcomer(s)...despite having NO FOAL by her side. Even when our two girls who came (individually) as weanlings! She wanted to run them to the GROUND and would have if we hadn't intervened. It took about 10 days of slow and limited introduction/exposure. The same happened when we brought the two new 2 yr olds in in April.

wow i am glad its not like that, hour by hour it gets beter, they get alittle closer and the ear pinning is not as bad, her kicks have turn in to hind end hops

Thank you for all the reply's at least i know it should all work out fine

 

[Mini Love]

Hi Everyone

Its been a few day's, things are about the same. We only went in once to stop, a bad chase ( in my eye's ) I didnt want the foal getting ran over... even though she started it. Everyone was just doing there own thing, The foal Baby Girl took off across the pasture flying well Booker wanted to play, The mare Missy was not having it after she had a fit on Booker, he ended up running after the mare, foal was trying to stay at her side.. I thought she was going to get ran over. so I am in there trying to stop Booker, It was all most like he said I have had enough of her ( the mare ) I am not going to hert the baby. He would not stop... Dollie the other mare was calling out after a few full rounds of the pasture the foal stop over at Dollie & stood there as if Dollie was calling her??? Dont know but it sure help.. Booker still on her tail, he was not trying to mount her, or kick more just to say I am in charge. I never ran so much in my life trying to calm him down, BF was out there with me. It got to a point were there was space to to stop the run ( she went left he went right & we got in between 30 feet of so), we cut between and just stood with arms out. Everyone was so wore out it was not funny, I Dont think Booker has ever ran that much at one time and he was feeling it, sweat dripping off, I didnt know what to do at that point so I put a lead on him and we just walk around in the pasture.

After I knew all was ok and everyone back to the norm I went in the house to get a drink, I look out the kitchen window and see the foal in the baby pen, I thought good i can sit for a few, Then I see Booker heading that way the mare was off to the side and really didnt pay him no mind.. But then he goes to the door way of the baby pen sticks his head in and lifts it up and in he goes, I started screaming & running out side with BF in tow, its about 100 feet from my door, We take are shoes off at the door - so I am runing in the stones no shoes, Bookers in the baby pen with Baby and he just walked around her, with the mare starting to have a fit on the out side, Baby just walk out the door way and booker sticks his head through the door way and lifts the pen up with it scraping his back, comes out behind her she went to the mare & he just walked away..... Was he just showing the mare he would not hert the foal??? Needless to say the baby pen is closed no one can get in, we have to add post to the front now.

I hope this smooths out soon, We would rub & mess with Booker & dollie every day, But when we go to the pasture the foal is the 1st to come up to us with the mare in tow, it is reallying leaveing Booker & Dollie out, they can only get so close before the mare will stop them. If i am with Booker of Dollie is only for a short time before the foal comes and they know to walk away. What can I do to help smooth this over?

You all have been great.Thank You sooo much

 

[AnnaC]

Oh dear, I'm sorry that you had a bit of a 'panic' session (or two of them!). I'm sure they will all settle down eventually, and I think you are doing a great job working with them all to create harmony.

Not wishing to be a 'doom and gloom' agent, I would just like to make a couple of points for you to think over. Booker and Dollie have been together for some time and it seems to be that for some reason Booker thinks of Dollie as a friend and not as a mare for potential breeding. Whereas he has now been 'presented' with a new/different mare and when she comes into season, he may well 'feel' entirely different about the situation!

Many young stallions will chase a mare when she first comes into season, the aim being to 'wear her out' and get her to stand still. Experienced stallions will not bother to waste their energy, knowing full well that when she is ready for covering, the mare will actively seek them out! So please watch very carefully, as I dont think that at the moment you are intending to do any breeding, and you might find that Booker suddenly wakes up and tries to test his newly found abilities!

Seondly, and most important, you say that everyone was pretty exhausted (I think you mean horses as well as humans?) and Booker was 'dripping' with sweat, well just imagine how long this might have gone on had it happened during the night, or when you were out, away from the place? Booker might have been ok - he's been well fed and looked after, but your new little girl may not be in such good condition, plus she is feeding a foal, and an exhausted mare is going to lose some of her milk production capacity, quite apart from being extremely stressed and worried about the well being of her foal. It has been known for a stallion to run a mare completely into the ground, to the point of complete collapse. Not a nice situation! Not to mention how fast a foal would become exhausted should it not go and stand to one side.

I'm sorry to be the one saying these things, but it really worries me - Booker's 'behaviour' regarding Dollie is not the normal one between a stud and a young mare, and I'm just worried that he could change in his outlook and upset all your good work in trying to make a happy little herd of four very sweet minis.