is mare maiden who lost first two foals

[indebtedfarms]

My mare, Precious, has had two foals. Both were aborted at 9 months. This year we tried pneumabort shots and regumate started about a month ago. She is at day 310 today. This is the farthest she has ever carried!!! Yeah!!!!! My question is---is she considered a maiden mare or not? I was curious because she is getting a bag but not a huge one and I know maiden's would bag up differently than experienced horses. I have her on camera and check her every half hour. She is very loose in the back end and her bag is getting bigger but still not big enough to get milk out. Also I am still terrified of her losing this foal. The other two babies both died first and then she aborted them so I am afraid she may still lose this one. I am interested in ANY opinions. Thanks

 

[Doobie]

Only going by text book I would say no she is not a 'maiden mare' ....

however she would not be 'an old pro' either since she lost the first two so young.

Keep watch and hopefully all will go well. If you were with her when she lost

the first two she may 'tell' you when the time is near !

Our prayers are with you for a healthy baby and mom.

 

[love_casper]

i'd say she's not a "Maiden" because this isn't her first pregnancy. but she will be a first time mommy since this would be the fist foal she will actually be able to mother.

hope you get a healthy live baby!

:

 

[rockin r]

HMMMM.

I would say she is a maiden mare, ONLY because she has not carried to full term....

 

[Karin - NaKar Miniatures]

You put her on regumate a month ago? Regumate at this late stage isn't going to help. Regumate

should have been administered a soon as the mare was found to be in foal. Preferably around 18 - 21 days. Regumate basically only works the first 120 days and then the endometrial cups take over to produce the progesterone. Just my opinion, but I feel at this point you are wasting your money.

 

[Becky]

Regumate at this late stage isn't going to help

I completely disagree with that statement!!!! We have had excellent results putting late term mares on Regumate and getting them to carry to term! We also double the dose and usually give a round of SMZ's (10 - 14 days) as well. It's equally as important to keep your mare on the Regumate until she foals. Do not take her off of it until then. Good luck!

 

[lyn_j]

Im with Karen, Regimate is about 200 dollars a bottle. I have used it early on one mare but as the endometrial cups take hold its just wasting money. I feel like I would consider her maiden since she never delivered a full term foal. If she were a person she would be considered G3PO Gravida 3 (pregnant 3 times no live baby to date).

Lyn

 

[RJRMINIS]

Personally I would still consider her a maiden until she delivers and nurses a live foal.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

Karin is correct, for the normal pregnancy Regumate supplimentation is not warrented past 150 days. On occasion vets will perscribe it for special cases to day 300 but in many, many cases its wasted money. There ARE cases where late term Regumate would be helpful, in combination with SMZ as Becky said, and that would be placentitis (infection and seperation of the placenta). That's the only case I'm familier with that Regumate would be helpful, and at $1.50/day for a mini, its quite expensive.

I vote half-maiden

She hasn't produced a bag and nursed a foal, but she has "given birth" to the two dead fetuses. Her cervix and birth canal have been stretched, but not to the full size that a foal would require. Her motherly behavior hasn't come into play yet. I think she'd be more maiden that not.

 

[indebtedfarms]

Thank you for all the responses. All of the information you have given is helpful. I was so excited that she had carried this far that I panicked and wanted to try whatever I could to make sure she carries to term. Any other ideas!!!!!!! Thank you so much!!!!

 

[Reble]

Maiden Mare means never conceived, as long as she got pregnant she is no longer a Maiden Mare. :new_shocked:

 

[RobinRTrueJoy]

My experiences support Becky's statements.

As far as being a maiden or not... her cervix has been stretched.... although not to the point of delivering a fullterm foal, but mentally, she has never been a Mama yet. I would consider her more a maiden.

Keep her on the Regumate till she foals!

Best of luck!

 

[Rachel]

I would consider her a maiden. I sure hope she makes it to term and gives you a healthy little baby!

 

[MountainMeadows]

Textbooks & Dr degrees notwithstanding - I am 100% with Becky on this one -- keep her on Regumate, add SMZ's and keep your fingers crossed. Only have had about 200 foals born here, but some of my mares are given Regumate/SMZ's as their standard pregnancy protocol - at $250 a bottle it is cheap insurance compared to not giving it and losing a foal at 9 or 10 months. We start as soon as the mare is confirmed in foal with Regumate and up the dose to double about 9 months and add in the SMZ's AND 1/2 cc Banamine [/u] the mare is bagging too early -- has worked for me every time.

 

[Reble]

[SIZE=18pt]Breeding Terminology [/SIZE]

8th one down... Just sharing....

Bred (Mated): Any filly or mare that has undergone the physical act of breeding (mating).

Bred (Area Foaled): The term "bred" is sometimes used to describe the location where a foal was born, i.e., Kentucky Bred, New York Bred, etc.

Breeder: The breeder of a foal is the owner of the dam at the time of foaling, unless the dam was under a lease or foal-sharing agreement at the time of foaling. In that case, the person(s) specified by the terms of the agreement is (are) the breeder of the foal.

Stallion: A male horse that is used to produce foals.

Sire: A male horse that has produced, or is producing, foals.

Broodmare: A filly or mare that has been bred (mated) and is used to produce foals.

Dam: A female horse that has produced, or is producing, foals.

Maiden: A filly or mare that has never been bred (mated).

In Foal (Pregnant) Broodmare: A filly or mare that was bred (mated), conceived and is currently in foal (pregnant).

Aborted: A term used to describe a broodmare that has been pronounced in foal (pregnant) based on an examination of 42 days or more post breeding (mating) and lost her foal prematurely; or a broodmare from whom an aborted fetus has been observed.

Barren (Not Pregnant): A term used to describe a filly or mare, other than a maiden mare, that was bred (mated) and did not conceive during the last breeding season.

Breeding (Mating): The physical act of a stallion mounting a broodmare with intromission of the penis and ejaculation of semen into the reproductive tract.

 

[RJRMINIS]

[SIZE=18pt]Breeding Terminology [/SIZE]8th one down... Just sharing....

Bred (Mated): Any filly or mare that has undergone the physical act of breeding (mating).

Bred (Area Foaled): The term "bred" is sometimes used to describe the location where a foal was born, i.e., Kentucky Bred, New York Bred, etc.

Breeder: The breeder of a foal is the owner of the dam at the time of foaling, unless the dam was under a lease or foal-sharing agreement at the time of foaling. In that case, the person(s) specified by the terms of the agreement is (are) the breeder of the foal.

Stallion: A male horse that is used to produce foals.

Sire: A male horse that has produced, or is producing, foals.

Broodmare: A filly or mare that has been bred (mated) and is used to produce foals.

Dam: A female horse that has produced, or is producing, foals.

Maiden: A filly or mare that has never been bred (mated).

In Foal (Pregnant) Broodmare: A filly or mare that was bred (mated), conceived and is currently in foal (pregnant).

Aborted: A term used to describe a broodmare that has been pronounced in foal (pregnant) based on an examination of 42 days or more post breeding (mating) and lost her foal prematurely; or a broodmare from whom an aborted fetus has been observed.

Barren (Not Pregnant): A term used to describe a filly or mare, other than a maiden mare, that was bred (mated) and did not conceive during the last breeding season.

Breeding (Mating): The physical act of a stallion mounting a broodmare with intromission of the penis and ejaculation of semen into the reproductive tract.

The problem with this terminology is if I was following it then my maiden mares that have not produced a foal or ever been in foal would not be maiden because they where bred before but did not take..........SO according to this if they have been bred they are not maiden. I disagree with the terminolgy, just for the fact a maiden mare in my opinion is one that has never had a full-term foal, or given birth.........and had a foal stand and nurse. I bred my two mares and they didn't take the first time the following year they did, so would that make them not maiden........I say no.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

This has deteriorated into arguing semantics... no, this horse may not be a maiden (according to that firm definition... but then again, a stallion may never breed in his lifetime, but he's still a stallion if he's of breeding age), but as far as she's concerned, she may be. I think the point of the question is "should this mare be TREATED as a maiden" vs. "is this mare technically a maiden".

As a wise vet down in Florida once told me... "she may no longer be a VIRGIN, but she's still a maiden"

Gotta love Peterson and Smith

 

[Songcatcher]

[SIZE=18pt]Breeding Terminology [/SIZE]

Breeder: The breeder of a foal is the owner of the dam at the time of foaling, unless the dam was under a lease or foal-sharing agreement at the time of foaling. In that case, the person(s) specified by the terms of the agreement is (are) the breeder of the foal.

I'm not sure where this list of terminology came from, but the breeder of a foal is the owner of the dam at the time of BREEDING, not necessarily at the time of foaling.

I have bought several mares in foal who foaled after I bought them and had them transfered into my name. I am not listed as the breeder of ANY of those foals.

 

[appypintolady]

I Just lost a foal at 10 mos. How do you give the Regumate? Do you give it through the whole pregnancy for optimum results?What is the dosage and what are SMZ's? I don't ever want to lose another one if I can help it. Thanks

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

Regumate is synthetic progesterone, given orally. A dose is 1cc per 100lbs per day, and 1000cc costs around $200. It has some serious side effects for humans, and is absorbed through the skin.

Its given to mares who have either: a poor quality CL, making less than the required level of natural progesterone; or to embryo recips who didn't concieve naturally. Its given every day for 150 days, until the placenta takes over. After that, it does very little good, and can cause problems close to foaling when the body changes its hormone levels in order to prepare to foal. Progestins close the cervix and keep it closed, which can be problematic.

SMZ's are an antibiotic, NOT a routine thing to give without reason. Prefoaling is not your everyday reason to give antibiotics. The best way to tell is to have an ultrasound done, which is difficult for a mini, I know. The Regumate/SMZ routine is used to help prevent premature foaling, by trying to help prevent infection from spreading and by "locking the backdoor" to prevent the foal from "slipping" out. Its a last ditch effort, not a routine thing.