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Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis
Guest
Wow Ok kim I can see now they are SERIOUS up there :lol: So yes.. I would be more then happy to hide you out down here
HOF
- Thread starter littlearab
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Wow Ok kim I can see now they are SERIOUS up there :lol: So yes.. I would be more then happy to hide you out down here
Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
I just got this email from Stacy Score / Mountain Meadows and felt she had some very interesting and insightful points! I still think I'm most "struck" by Halter HOF's, but I have said before to others and stand by it that to me, the "biggest" wins (as in the ones I'd value the most) are halter and driving.
Here's what Stacy says:
Hi Jill,
I noticed your post on LB concerning HOF and I would like to share a few personal thoughts.
I agree with a lot with what Karen has mentioned concerning Superior Sire/Dam - those are the horses that are going to "make" our industry - every horse has the potential of producing a "freak", but the mares and stallions who consistently put out top quality individuals are those that are real gems - and their breeders are the ones to pay particular attention to since they are obviously working "a planned breeding program".
That said, I would like you to consider the comment that a Halter HOF is more important than a Performance HOF - I understand that by and large people are drawn more to the halter horses because in general those are the ones that get all the glory. But . . . Coming from a breeder (myself) who has produced BOTH National Grand's in Halter as well as in Driving, I can honestly say that the National Grands/HOF's in Driving mean far more to me than the Halter ones - maybe, as yet, they are not as coveted - but they are fast becoming so. I will share with you a little story that I have about a conversation with one of THE top AMHA trainers who came out to visit and over a glass of wine we were debating the Halter/Performance glory.
My feeling is this, and feel free to correct me if you feel differently:
A top quality halter horse is far more easily "attained" than a performance horse:
(1) You can pretty much "buy" a title by doing your homework and purchasing a good horse,
(2) feeding/training it to perfection can be accomplished in a matter of just a few months,
(3) backing up your accomplishments & upcomming shows with glossy ads that get out to the public and help "create" an image
(4) placing the horse with one of THE top trainers.
If you are willing to pay the price, do the work and follow the above guidelines you can pretty well be assured that you are going to be a winner in the ring - ie HOF/National Champion, etc.
BUT . . .
The same is far from true as a Performance/Driving Horse:
(1) There are very few breeders who are really breeding for conformationally correct, talented horses.
(2) It takes YEARS to attain the age to begin, and then at least 2-3 years of consistent training to develop the muscle groups necessary to be competitive. During this time frame, the expectations and the talent continues to evolve and what may have been a winner "now" may not be in 3-5 years.
(4) Natural ability does NOT necessarily = willingness. I cannot stress enough how important this is in a driving horse - if they aren't willing - you are NOT going to have a winner.
(5) Style - while it is true that there are different "styles" in halter it is also true that a good Halter horse will still do well even if it is a Quarter Horse style and not an Arabian style. The same is true about "style" in driving, but in general if a judge likes a particular style of going (ie "fancy" vs "power") you are probably not going to find that judge using a horse unless it is of the style that they prefer - so therefore it is always a crapshoot and if your judge doesn't like your horses "way of going" -even if it is very correct you are still not going to place well.
(6) In driving there is always the possibility of your horse breaking, blowing up, being tired, etc - bear in mind that the performance classes are in general very long and to keep a horse in "peak" for that length of time is very difficult - in halter where the classes may be long you really only have to stand your horse up for a few seconds every once in awhile while a judge is looking at you -- this is far different than a performance class.
(7) A trainer is not going to get picked if his horse is not going well - sometimes you see this happen, but in general the crowd is so displeased that this type of attitude changes quickly and the judge gets serious about his job and starts concentrating on the way the horse is going - not WHO is at the whip.
It is for these reasons that I feel that the Performance wins are more "valuable" than the Halter - over time it is going to become increasingly apparent just how very difficult it really is to be a Performance Champion - and to consistently breed winners in this division takes a special breeding program and a lot of time, energy and faith. That said, for my personal breeding program, I am striving for each horse to be BOTH a Halter winner as well as a Performance winner - we are working our plan and hope to have continued success, but it is not easy!
OK, closing my book!
Stacy
PS - If you want to put this on the LB board it is OK by me - I can't post here at work - ...
Here's what Stacy says:
Hi Jill,
I noticed your post on LB concerning HOF and I would like to share a few personal thoughts.
I agree with a lot with what Karen has mentioned concerning Superior Sire/Dam - those are the horses that are going to "make" our industry - every horse has the potential of producing a "freak", but the mares and stallions who consistently put out top quality individuals are those that are real gems - and their breeders are the ones to pay particular attention to since they are obviously working "a planned breeding program".
That said, I would like you to consider the comment that a Halter HOF is more important than a Performance HOF - I understand that by and large people are drawn more to the halter horses because in general those are the ones that get all the glory. But . . . Coming from a breeder (myself) who has produced BOTH National Grand's in Halter as well as in Driving, I can honestly say that the National Grands/HOF's in Driving mean far more to me than the Halter ones - maybe, as yet, they are not as coveted - but they are fast becoming so. I will share with you a little story that I have about a conversation with one of THE top AMHA trainers who came out to visit and over a glass of wine we were debating the Halter/Performance glory.
My feeling is this, and feel free to correct me if you feel differently:
A top quality halter horse is far more easily "attained" than a performance horse:
(1) You can pretty much "buy" a title by doing your homework and purchasing a good horse,
(2) feeding/training it to perfection can be accomplished in a matter of just a few months,
(3) backing up your accomplishments & upcomming shows with glossy ads that get out to the public and help "create" an image
(4) placing the horse with one of THE top trainers.
If you are willing to pay the price, do the work and follow the above guidelines you can pretty well be assured that you are going to be a winner in the ring - ie HOF/National Champion, etc.
BUT . . .
The same is far from true as a Performance/Driving Horse:
(1) There are very few breeders who are really breeding for conformationally correct, talented horses.
(2) It takes YEARS to attain the age to begin, and then at least 2-3 years of consistent training to develop the muscle groups necessary to be competitive. During this time frame, the expectations and the talent continues to evolve and what may have been a winner "now" may not be in 3-5 years.
(4) Natural ability does NOT necessarily = willingness. I cannot stress enough how important this is in a driving horse - if they aren't willing - you are NOT going to have a winner.
(5) Style - while it is true that there are different "styles" in halter it is also true that a good Halter horse will still do well even if it is a Quarter Horse style and not an Arabian style. The same is true about "style" in driving, but in general if a judge likes a particular style of going (ie "fancy" vs "power") you are probably not going to find that judge using a horse unless it is of the style that they prefer - so therefore it is always a crapshoot and if your judge doesn't like your horses "way of going" -even if it is very correct you are still not going to place well.
(6) In driving there is always the possibility of your horse breaking, blowing up, being tired, etc - bear in mind that the performance classes are in general very long and to keep a horse in "peak" for that length of time is very difficult - in halter where the classes may be long you really only have to stand your horse up for a few seconds every once in awhile while a judge is looking at you -- this is far different than a performance class.
(7) A trainer is not going to get picked if his horse is not going well - sometimes you see this happen, but in general the crowd is so displeased that this type of attitude changes quickly and the judge gets serious about his job and starts concentrating on the way the horse is going - not WHO is at the whip.
It is for these reasons that I feel that the Performance wins are more "valuable" than the Halter - over time it is going to become increasingly apparent just how very difficult it really is to be a Performance Champion - and to consistently breed winners in this division takes a special breeding program and a lot of time, energy and faith. That said, for my personal breeding program, I am striving for each horse to be BOTH a Halter winner as well as a Performance winner - we are working our plan and hope to have continued success, but it is not easy!
OK, closing my book!
Stacy
PS - If you want to put this on the LB board it is OK by me - I can't post here at work - ...
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Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis
Guest
Stacy we have talked about this before and you said it very well once again
K
kaykay
Guest
i totally agree with stacy. this is why crunch is in driving training as we speak. the goal is to have both a halter and performance hof on him
Dont know if its possible but we are sure gonna try
willowoodstables
Well-Known Member
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I knew I liked that girl Stacey for a reason LOL...
Bingo...I'm honored by my horse's HOF..BUT, my big and ultimate goal is to have him HOF Driving (as in show pleasure/country or roadster), and a Top Ten or National title as well.
Take it from me with 30 yrs...it is ultimately harder to condition, train, entertain, and win with a driving (or even riding) horse. There are issues with conditioning (peaking too early), sourness, lameness, etc etc etc...I'm trying to keep ONE hackney pony going for the next four weeks in this LOVELY rainy weather, clipped half naked to go show at the Royal Winter Fair in Toronto in November...U Canadians know what our late fall weather is....WHY???? Cause I can LOLOL...no in all honesty he's good enough to be there and compete, and the newbie hubby is gonna take a shot at driving him there (insert Kim's VALIUM here), as I am as well. For me the thrill of getting that pony and hubby into the ring will bring tears to my eyes..heaven help us if they get a piece of the pie (as in multi World Champions will be in his class)...I'll be bawling as I get my extra long arm around to pat myself on the back for a job well done!!
Kim
OMG LOLOLOLOLOL...I just saw Sunny's and Lisa's posts.....Hey Lisa...I think you'd better hide us BOTH out LOLOLOL...Hey Sunny..seeing how you are the one with the potential National winners babies...give Lisa and I one LOLOL
Kim
Bingo...I'm honored by my horse's HOF..BUT, my big and ultimate goal is to have him HOF Driving (as in show pleasure/country or roadster), and a Top Ten or National title as well.
Take it from me with 30 yrs...it is ultimately harder to condition, train, entertain, and win with a driving (or even riding) horse. There are issues with conditioning (peaking too early), sourness, lameness, etc etc etc...I'm trying to keep ONE hackney pony going for the next four weeks in this LOVELY rainy weather, clipped half naked to go show at the Royal Winter Fair in Toronto in November...U Canadians know what our late fall weather is....WHY???? Cause I can LOLOL...no in all honesty he's good enough to be there and compete, and the newbie hubby is gonna take a shot at driving him there (insert Kim's VALIUM here), as I am as well. For me the thrill of getting that pony and hubby into the ring will bring tears to my eyes..heaven help us if they get a piece of the pie (as in multi World Champions will be in his class)...I'll be bawling as I get my extra long arm around to pat myself on the back for a job well done!!
Kim
OMG LOLOLOLOLOL...I just saw Sunny's and Lisa's posts.....Hey Lisa...I think you'd better hide us BOTH out LOLOLOL...Hey Sunny..seeing how you are the one with the potential National winners babies...give Lisa and I one LOLOL
Kim
Sunny
Well-Known Member
There's a good idea, Kimmy!! :aktion033: You and Lisa can each buy a Mirage baby next spring! Lisa, two of our HOF mares, and the dam of one of them are all in foal to him........ (hint, hint) LOLOL!!!
wcr
Well-Known Member
To borrow from another thread on pinto showing, the HOF and pinto championships are in the same category as it takes a lot of work, dedication and time to earn them. It is based on years of showing and conditioning, training ect. rather than a few classes. Pinto championships are based on halter and performance.
It depends on what area of the country you live in and what registries offer you the venue to show your horses in that mean the most to you.
It depends on what area of the country you live in and what registries offer you the venue to show your horses in that mean the most to you.
:aktion033: :new_shocked:
Just wait until you have earned one & you will know beyond belief.
It is the culminaiton of training and showing your horse to its highest potential.
Lots & lots of times (especially here in our part of the country) you will have your horse show its heart out -- but with no competition so the wins do not count. The points count but you need to accumulate both wins & points together.
When it happens it is thrilling. And, you begin to plan for the next one. It is something you can not explain until you have done the time , put in the effort & reaped the reward for your horse.
Just wait until you have earned one & you will know beyond belief.
It is the culminaiton of training and showing your horse to its highest potential.
Lots & lots of times (especially here in our part of the country) you will have your horse show its heart out -- but with no competition so the wins do not count. The points count but you need to accumulate both wins & points together.
When it happens it is thrilling. And, you begin to plan for the next one. It is something you can not explain until you have done the time , put in the effort & reaped the reward for your horse.
