HOF

[littlearab]

OK I have a ? for you all.

When it comes to buying foals, does it mean much if the sire is HOF??

As apposed lets say a national champion?

Would you rather buy a foal out of national champion or HOF horse??

I know HOF a point award.. so could you not just get HOF by showing eough?? Meaning the horse is not really that good just been shown allot..

 

[dinno28]

OK I have a ? for you all.

When it comes to buying foals, does it mean much if the sire is HOF??

As apposed lets say a national champion?

Would you rather buy a foal out of national champion or HOF horse??

I know HOF a point award.. so could you not just get HOF by showing eough?? Meaning the horse is not really that good just been shown allot..

Not all hall of fame awards or national championships are equal. I would look at a horse. If I liked the foal and the parents then I would go ahead an buy it. There are alot of great horses that have never been shown and there are stallions that have achieved hall of fame status or won national championships that I would not wish to own.

 

[Jill]

As was said, they are not all created equal. I'd put more weight on halter HOF's and halter National wins vs. performance which is taught.

And, no, you will NOT get an HOF simply by showing enough at least for classes that have champion or equivilent levels. You must have at least five (5) grand champion wins, which means you have to "beat" all the junior and senior horses of the same sex and same height division (A or B). Those are NOT easy to get. You need five of them and 70 points.

Particularly when a horse achieves a halter HOF as a young horse, I feel it really speaks to that horse's quality.

As to any wins adding to the worth of a foal, I feel they do add something assuming the foal is nice as an individual. Then everything "behind" it just backs up the horse's potential.

 

[kaykay]

my partnership stallion crunch got his hof in halter at 2. then his previous owner stopped showing him. i showed him in halter and liberty this year just to get the experience and let people see him in a new area and he was still winning as a 4 yr old

He is now in driving training and we will be trying to put a double hall of fame on him. I put more stock in a HOF as opposed to one national win as the horse has to have beat a ton of other horses consistently to get that HOF. I do think it increases the value of the foals but they still have to live up to the expectation

 

[Yaddax3]

National championships and Hall of Fames both are accomplishments to be proud of. Five of our HOF horses also have won national championships, and a sixth HOF horse has won a reserve national title. So, I guess that's the best of both worlds.

 

[Karen S]

Good Morning Tamara,

Here is my opinion on Hall of Fame and National Champions....

A Miniature or Shetland that is consistent in the show ring in winning it's Open, Jr or Sr Championship and Grand Champion will eventually end up with it's Hall of Fame. Remember you must have (5) Grand Championship and 70 points to earn the Hall of Fame. Hall of Fame is just one tool to guide you by. A National Champion is another. Most National Champions horses are also Hall of Fame.

In looking at breeding prospects within my own herd, I look at conformation, to see if that Mare or Stallion had traits that I'm looking for. No horse is perfect so I look to see if one or the other will balance out any problems eash has. Sometimes a mare may be too short in the neck where the stallion might give a bit more length to her neck problem, but her short neck still ties in very well to her body. A stallion may have a nice head where the mare may be a bit weak (plain) where you might get the stallions head combined with the mare's nice body on your baby. A mare may have the ears you are looking for combined with the stallions nice head you just might get both. It's still a gamble no matter what. There are times where National Champions/Hall of Fame horses just do not reproduce themselves....again it's just a tool to go by.

Right now I place a lot of our breeding program on Superior Dams and Superior Sires. To me this is just as important as those horses are consistently putting down horses that are also proving themselves in the show ring. Look at Getitia Methany's, Walnut Creek Farm breeding program...look at Belinda Bagby's, Cross Country Farm...loook at Doc Taylor, Taylor Pony Farm...look at Natalie Roberts, Nostalgia Farm...look at Erica Killion's, Erica's Tiny Trotters...look at the Eberth's Little King Farm...I could go on with other's that are consistent in their breeding programs, who have produced both National Champions and Hall of Fame horses that keep winning year after year. Why? It's because they pay alot of attention to their bloodlines and see what crosses well with others. There will be times when all is in order and when those two horses are matched up it just didn't work. I have them and I know other's have them too. Most all of us will stay with the matches that are working for us and keep the best of the offspring that comes from that matchup to replace the aging stock in the future.

I have a mare in my broodmare band that didn't win any Hall of Fame but did win most of her classes at Congress in 2003. She placed very well in All Stars that year too. She is one mare that has been consistent in putting nice babies on the ground for us. Her first baby is only a few points away from earning her Hall of Fame and her baby from this year is on her way and could possibly earn it this next year. With what she has done I'm having people wanting babies from her to add to their programs when they are old enough to breed. My other broodmare doesn't have any Hall of Fame or National Championships for showing but she too has been consistent in putting down Hall of Fame or National Champion babies on the ground. She earned her Superior Dam Hall of Fame award in 2005.

Consistency tells it all....so my answer maybe a bit lengthy, but this is what works for us and our breeding program.

Thanks for the thread and allowing me to share my thoughts.

Karen

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

OK I have a ? for you all.

When it comes to buying foals, does it mean much if the sire is HOF??

As apposed lets say a national champion?

Would you rather buy a foal out of national champion or HOF horse??

I know HOF a point award.. so could you not just get HOF by showing eough?? Meaning the horse is not really that good just been shown allot..

for me and this might make some angry a HOF means very little. I know many who have acheived a HOF in one year even with 20 -30 horses at a show becouse they have multiple judges. It really all depends on who and what the horse is showing against. In some areas it is VERY tough to get a HOF in others not so tough. Sometimes it is all about how much money you are going to spend in one season showing. It can be a great goal for a owner to try and achieve yet others may have to spend all summer long out of state to get it done so many variables really.

All stars is odd for me as well your horse could show in his/her area all season long as the only horse in its class and still end up with top points in all star compared to one who showed in huge classes with tough compitition and placed 3rd all season.

heck I know many who put on tons of shows all season long in there own backyard so there horses can HOF or get All Star

So might it be an added bonus promotion wise to be as a buyer maybe but certainly not one I personally put much weight it.

As for a National Champion of course that is nice but I am the same as Karen on this part for me the bottom line is what does the sire and dam look like and how consistent is what they throw. I have seen amazing animals throw not so amazing foals.

For me personally it comes down to HOF being a goal for someone to work for if it is important to them and therefore something to be proud of as a selling point .. it isnt much to me personally.

If it were as easy as breeding a National Champion horse to a National Champion horse to get a National Champion horse.. then heck we would all have National Champions

:

 

[LaVern]

I agree with Karen. What means the most to me is Superior Dam and Superior Sire. I think they only put HOF on the papers even if it means Superior Sire or Dam. To be a Superior Sire I think that the stallion must have sired 5-6 Hall of Fame horses. Which is not easy these days.

 

[kaykay]

lisa you cannot get a halter HOF in one year. the horse must get championship wins as both a yearling and 2 yr old. HOF is not at all the same as all stars. its not a trailer race at all for a HOF. the horse must consistently win and BEAT competition. You cannot get hof points if you show alone in a class.

 

[Charlotte]

ANY show wins of ANY kind are a major accomplishment and something to hold up proudly! IMO

Having said that though, I place much more value on 'points earned' than on a National or World show award.

Hall Of Fame, All Star, Honor Roll .... these require excellence in the show ring......show after show after show, judge after judge, after judge! Not just one show. Not just one set of judges. Let me see proof of excellence time after time.

Yes, I use our horse's World & National wins as 'braggin rights', but points earned are the true test of an individual's or exhibitor's excellence. IMO

Charlotte

p.s. And I REALLY like to see a pretty horse that can DO! Like Monique this year... TT Liberty and Sr Mare, AND tied in first on the Honor Roll!!!! And Zorro......the best at halter and now repeating in driving!

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

lisa you cannot get a halter HOF in one year. the horse must get championship wins as both a yearling and 2 yr old. HOF is not at all the same as all stars. its not a trailer race at all for a HOF. the horse must consistently win and BEAT competition. You cannot get hof points if you show alone in a class.

Wow kay according to the rule book I have that isnt the case at all. ONE of those Grands must be one as a 2 yr old the rest can be won prior or as the horse is 10 and showing for the first time.

A horse can get HOF points being the only horse in the class however the way I understand it.. its grands must have competition (at least one other horse) so if there is

Straight out of the rule book

1-3 horses in a class you recieve 1 HOF point PER JUDGE so yes a horse showing by itself at a 4 judge show has then earned 4 of the 70 HOF Points needed

then that same horse shows in the grand class (lets say it was the only Jr or SR horse ) and wins the grand against one other horse it then gets an additional 12 points from those 4 judges so it is possible fora horse to get 20 points at one show so a horse showing by itself at a few muliptle judge shows can easily get lots of points. Espeically when you consider that Triple points can be earned at a Area show

So it can be done in one year in fact I know several horses that have again that year has to be a 2 yr old or older year since they need ONE grand as a 2 yr old or older to count as part of there 5

Dont get me wrong I am not saying it cant be a great acheivement. I am simply saying that for me any show record (as a buyer and honestly as an exhibitor) is only as good as the compeition on that given day. Some areas(and shows) have very tough classes with several horses others have several classes with one horse in them.

I just learned early on that if a show record is important to me to really research what the horse did.

An example of my own

Our horse won Res national Champion in youth halter.. sounds impressive however... there were only 3 in the class

: so for me that changes alot.

Heck the first thing raven said was Foxy did better then that he only got a 7th but there was over 20 horses in his class so that is better then Madge getting 2nd out of 3....and really I couldnt argue with her

Now did i take Ravens platter and ribbon and RUN you betcha. Were we excited and happy of course.. however the truth in that is she got 2nd out of 3 so again for me researching a show record and how many and how often the horse showed is something that I do when even considering it. You can bet on our website.. where there is a pic of raven happy as can be with the mare at the backdrop it does say Res National Champ.. and also says out of 3

 

[disneyhorse]

Kaykay...

You CAN get a HOF in one year. We have a club that puts on five two-judge shows here, and many competitors have HOF'd their horses in one year (provided the horse is two or older of course). If your horse does well, there is no reason it can't HOF in a single year. It just needs to have one other horse to show against. More horses in the class make it just easier to get your points faster.

And really, if someone wants to HOF their horse... they could enter a bunch of their own horses, not groom or clip them for show, but have their HOF prospect beat them consistently at smaller-attendence shows. Even the worst show horse can thus HOF and have that title. Just saying...

That said, there isn't a ''perfect'' answer to the show ring, but like Karen S has said, if a breeding program can CONSISTENTLY produce HOF and Superior horses, that just goes to show SOME aspect of quality! Quality is, after all, in the eyes of the beholder.

I must admit I was a bit swayed to buy my Modern Shetland mare simply because she had a HOF. To me, it meant that someone out there liked the mare enough to take the time and money to promote her all the way to finish her HOF. Sometimes that says a lot. And it's ''proof'' the animal was shown and handled a lot to some degree. That has merit in it's own right.

Anyway, it's all subjective. I think titles can only ADD to a horse's or breeding programs value... it might not have any weight to some people but it never DETRACTS!!! I think these ''breed titles'' be they all-stars or HOF or National titles are VERY IMPORTANT to have for a breeding animal, if just to have one! A breeding animal shouldn't lack in ANY department... conformation, temperament, bloodlines, show record, movement. They should have it ALL, even if it's not super-amazing in someone's eyes, they still should have it.

Andrea

 

[Magic]

It is true, some horses can HOF in one show season. I've had some of my horses do it. It depends on how many shows they go to, how many judges they show under, and how many horses were in their classes (the more they beat, the more points they get).

I've shown many of my horses to Hall of Fame awards, and no it isn't easy. We've never shown alone, not in halter! and a great many of the horses we've shown against have done extremely well themselves, so I've never seen it not be competitive. Horses *can* just "rack up points" by showing a lot, but you HAVE to have at least those five Grand Championships to HOF, and those can be really tough to get.

:

I think that HOF awards, and Superior Dam and Superior Sire awards, mean a lot-- it means consistency, in winning, under many different judges and competing against many different horses. Anybody who has shown their horse to a HOF will know what I mean.

 

[kaykay]

this is so weird my type keeps disappearing lol

I should have said a YEARLING cannot obtain a halter HOF in one year. Sorry for the mistake. Most of the people I know show them as yearlings then go back their 2nd year to get the HOF.

I stand by my statement that you have to BEAT other horses as it says the 5 grand wins must be with competition. so i really dont understand this statement lisa:

A horse can get HOF points being the only horse in the class however the way I understand it.. its grands must have competition (at least one other horse) so if there is

That makes no sense?? If you show as the only entry and get a grand with no competition it does not go tword HOF.

Anyway Im with charlotte any win is a win and something to be proud of. And yes I am proud ot own a HOF stallion. And Im proud of our national all star placings too. For us it is not a trailer race. We only went to 4 shows this year and last time I checked crunch was in the top ten all stars for ammy halter, open sr halter, and color. Even with AMHR putting him in the wrong area LOL. Patches made top ten all stars both years we showed her with limited showing.

Showing is so much hard work and so much money put out that I am proud of it all

:

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Again if you read what I said it can be very difficult to get however.. a horse showing alone can get 20 points a show depending on how many judges so it CAN happen both ways.

I know of people that will stack a class at small shows to ensure there "show" horse gets the grand along with all the points.

I am not saying it cant be a great acheivement I never in fact said that

Getting a horse ready to go to a show is alot of work, fitting is a lot of work, grooming is a lot of work. I never said it wasnt I do it I realize how much work there is involved. Personal goals are a great thing to have.. however the OP asked is it worth it to you assuming they meant as a buyer and for me what a horse throws is more important then any titles they have that is where the proof is in breeding stock. So no a parent winning something isnt necessarily going to make my purchase a horse for more money the sale horse needs to stand on its own merit.

also what I said when the OP asked... is it something you think of or put great importance in is it worth it(for the sire or dam to have a HOF)... my answer and I still stand by it is.. if a show record is that important to you (and that is fine) research it to see how many that horse showed against and who for example this year my horses were basically class fillers.. so some "might" have been excited to beat me and others never thought I was any competition (and were more then likely correct in that with the horses we were showing this year)

:

 

[willowoodstables]

Hmmm Great Topic!

That said, it took poor Mirage 2 years to get his HOF, not because he's not an awesome halter horse, but for the very reason that there where no B stallions, and all the GRANDS he did acculmulate were null to count towards his HOF as there was no competition. Mirage IMHO is a nice halter horse, and he had to "step up to the plate" to get his HOF this year, and again it was with limited showing.

Oh and in case everyone forgets...here he is AGAIN LOLOLOL

I agree with the idea of Superior, HOF or Nationals are what catch my eye to produce get. As a long-time Hackney breeder, I have the availaility of going back on bloodlines to the 1750's. There are certain bloodlines that CONSISTENTLY produce a certain conformation, movememt or temperment, which have gone on to be World Grand Champions and then produce more WGC's.

Based on my bloodlines that I have bred for for the last 30 yrs, I primarily use "old" blood, as in English (Hackney's are the original British breed), and of course it is getting harder and harder to "find" up close on a pedigree.

I believe in the future minis will have the same ability to have a consistent "bunch" of bloodlines. Breeders get caught up sometimes on the latest fad or craze (ie exotic heads, colour), but in the long run, when researching a potential broodmares, breeders will look at what the past gave to this point towards the future. Me..long legs, necks tied much much higher and a ground covering trot drives my breeding..as I am breeding for the ultimate horse..one who looks as darn pretty standing still as he does making a victory pass in the cart :aktion033: :aktion033:

I think this stallion will be able to enhance mares with a good neck and shoulder..actually I think he will cross well with a variety of mares conformation wise...

My perfect broodmare....she ALWAYS outproduces herself

Perfect stallion..compliments my mare

If they have proven themselves against their peers in the showring..that makes a big bonus in my mind.

I believe it is the mare that "gives" and the stallion just enhances :bgrin

Kim

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Kim you know I LOVE that guy as does Raven she wants him for her show gelding SOOOOO BADDD

I have to keep saying that is great but Kim wants him for her STALLION equally as bad :bgrin

 

[willowoodstables]

Hmmm Lisa.....if you can keep help me hide out, we can get'r dun LOLOLOL

Kim

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

lisa you cannot get a halter HOF in one year. the horse must get championship wins as both a yearling and 2 yr old.

Not true. Taken straight from the Rulebook:

C. To achieve Hall of Fame status, a Shetland, Miniature

or Show Pony must score 70 points in Halter or

Performance, and the show record must include five

Grand Champion wins with competition (one must be

won as a 2 year old or older), or five performance

Championship/Stake wins with competition.

You don't need to win as a yearling, but you MUST win at least once as a senior. My gelding, who is 2 points shy of his HoF, has seven Grand championships, all won as a three year old.

I kinda like it. It means you were at least campaigning your horse, and winning. :aktion033:

Lucy

 

[Sunny]

Kim, it actually took THREE show seasons to get his HOF. We started showing him as a 2 y.o. at the Beamsville shows, and he was the only B stallion out there, so there were two or three Grands that went uncounted that year.

"Kim you know I LOVE that guy as does Raven she wants him for her show gelding SOOOOO BADDD

I have to keep saying that is great but Kim wants him for her STALLION equally as bad"

"Hmmm Lisa.....if you can keep help me hide out, we can get'r dun LOLOLOL"

DON'T YOU DARE!!!!!!!!!!! :nono: It would be absolutely CRIMINAL to geld that horse, and there's any number of us who would hunt you down like a dirty dog if you gelded him!! :new_2gunsfiring_v1: