Help Please!

[Magic]

I have a friend in another state who has a young mare not doing well at all. Two different vets have been out and haven't been terribly helpful, though the second one did take blood tests and said that everything looks normal.

Let me give you a little bit of backstory, and then the current problems:

When my friend moved to their new place across country, she had to board her minis until they could get their place ready for them. This boarding stable had a lot of sand, and the filly (her name is "Baby") who was a yearling I believe at the time, apparently ingested a lot of the sand. Baby also got very thin, with a big belly, and started getting diarrea, which persisted even after she and the other horses were brought home. The diarrea was full of sand. Baby doesn't much care for hay, so she doesn't eat much of that, and my friend has been giving her Senior feed and the Platform mini feed. Baby eats that quite well. The horses don't have pasture, they just get a few minutes a day of grazing on the back yard.

Now, starting about five days ago, Baby was lying down and wouldn't get up. This is when the first vet was called. My friend got Baby up, and though Baby wasn't rolling or anything, she would stand or walk for only about 40 minutes at a time and then go back down. My friend has been getting Baby up every couple of hours. Baby has some sores on her right side, either from lying down so much, or from struggling to get up on her own, she's not sure. My friend also noticed that if they roll Baby from her right side onto her left side before getting her up, it is much easier to get her standing. Baby also has a sore shoulder, and she's not sure why. Injured trying to get up? Anyway, my friend set up a pen in the yard for Baby, as it's softer for her to lie on than being in the corral, and easier to get her up than being in a bedded stall, plus she can keep an eye on her from the house. Baby is grazing when my friend gets her standing, and then grazes while lying flat out. Baby will only eat her grain if she is hand fed now. The second vet said to give her Sand Clear, but Baby refuses to eat her feed at all if the pelleted Sand Clear is in it. The vet had no other helpful advice. So, talking with my friend, we decided that she is to get Metamucil and syringe that into Baby, starting with 3 times a day, to try to get the sand out. She will also get yogurt syringed into her (unless she will eat it on her own), and she will be started on Gastrogard.

Has anyone has any experience with this kind of problem, with a horse lying down so much and not being able to get up, or just not really wanting to? Apparently the vets ruled out founder, and the mare is dewormed regularly. They said that she wasn't colicking.

The first vet said that the mare is way too thin, which my friend knows, but she's tried everything she can think of to put weight on this mare. Her other horses are of a good weight, if not on the chubby side, and Baby isn't a "bottom of the totem pole" horse, so she isn't being deprived of her share of the feed. If we can get any ideas of what may be wrong, she can get the vet back out to test more, or treat for whatever it may be. Thank you in advance for any and all ideas!

 

[Little Wolf Ranch]

I'm afraid that I am not much of a help here,. but I am sending lots of prayers your way!

 

[~Lisa~]

I think the sand is the major issue it can take quite a while to get sand out when they ingest a lot.

SOme studies show beet pulp helps aid with sand removal I would have to look for the links but studies were done in FL I believe. If it were me I would try and get her to start eating beet pulp so she can hide the sand clear in there and I would give her the sand clear or other psyllium product daily for at least 30-45 days and then go from there.

 

[kaykay]

Ulcers, ulcers, ulcers. Did I say ulcers?

I would treat this mare asap like she does have ulcers. Get her on guastroguard asap. Moving etc causes a lot of stress and just about anything can cause a stomach ulcer. Big sign of ulcers is acting like a colic without colic. Other signs are dipping the nose in water but not really drinking, rolling onto the back, dog sitting, lethargy. Im not a fan of that mini feed. If she was mine once shes doing better I would put her on a good complete jr feed and see if she does better on that. Make all feed changes slowly

Sending prayers

Kay

 

[Miniv]

Ditto-ing Kay!

Yes, the sand is part of it........But everything sounds like ULCERS too........The sand could have caused the ulcers.

I would have your friend get aggressive with the ulcer treatment NOW.

 

[Minimor]

Is there no kind of hay that she likes better than others? I would suspect that sand is her major problem, and hay would be so much better than pellets when it comes to moving sand through her intestinal tract.

I've read that a diet that contains a lot of hay is excellent for clearing sand (2.5% of body weight in hay, compared to the usual 1.5%) so I'd try every type of hay I could find and hope that there's something out there that she likes.

I don't know if she was ever offered sand clear previously, when she first started showing symptoms of sand related problems? If she was eating good at the time that would have been the time to start the sand clear, she might have been more enthused about eating it. Now she is not feeling well & is more finicky than ever about eating.

 

[Genie]

I say ulcers too!

 

[HGFarm]

I have no experience with ulcers, but if there is a big problem with sand, she MUST get her on something. My friend here had a full sized horse that was 'sanded' and she also lost weight and began to colic. This mare was an EASY keeper and looked horrible. They had to feed her psyllium for about six weeks before they backed off to a normal dose after that!

I find mine dont like the Equi Aid, but will eat the brand 'Equus' right out of my hand. It is pelleted and perhaps mixed in with her grain, she will not notice it. None of mine have a problem with it, but wont eat many of the other brands or products.

I would also get her to a vet that will take this seriously before she loses her little gal!!! If they are treating for both ulcers and sand, I would not give the meds at the same time.

I hope she can find help for her little filly!

 

[MountainMeadows]

Hi Lori

Given what you are describing, I'm thinking entroliths here - seems like it has been going on for several days - not sure if she has been well oiled & lubed or if she is getting IV fluids. If your friend can get her to a hospital they can x-ray or ultrasound and see if there are any obstructions. Another thing that comes to mind is a tear in the peritineum (probably spelling that wrong) and the possibilty of some bowel slipping thru the tear and then comming back out - it is an intermittent problem. And lastly she might be suffering from the condition that causes the bowel to slip back inside itself (it has a name also which I can't remember).

In any of the cases above, she is going to need a lot more care than just hand walking - hoping that they can get a little more aggressive with their treatment and get her to a hospital where some diagnostics can be done - even a small animal hospital might have equiment that can help her.

Good luck - I feel for the little mare.

Stacy

 

[KanoasDestiny]

If the mare will eat the yogurt, you may try mixing some of the pysllium with it. My two hate the powder by itself, so I have to soak their pellets and add the pysllium to that. They have no choice but to eat it if they want their grain.

 

[Carolyn R]

I agree with the sand issue and I also agree that the issue is probably escalating to ulcers on top of it. It doesn't hurt to put a horse on an ulcer treatment regimine. With that being said, this horse, once it begins its recovery, needs more fiberous roughage in its diet,more than just a few minutes of hand grazing. Either a good quality hay several times a day, soaked hay cubes or alfalfa cubes, they need to keep trying until they find something that she will tolerate. Concentrates like grains are harsher on their systems than grass and hay, in a horse with underlying intestinal/ulcer issues an all concentrate diet will raise havoc.

I hope the filly makes a full recovery.

 

[LittleRibbie]

All I can give you are prayers for your friends horse. Wish I could help more.

 

[sfmini]

I vote ulcers too. Gastroguard is great BUT it takes a few days to have an effect. We use a routine of ranitidine about two hours after eating, then Pepto about an hour before feeding. This can be done for a few days until the gastro kicks in.

If it is uclers, or enteroliths, the horse needs treated NOW, both can be fatal.

Good luck. Of course, run this by your vet before treating with anything.

 

[REO]

I was going to say what Stacy at Mountain Meadows said. It would not hurt to rule these out.

It could be that and ulcers from the stress too. My prayers for Baby!

 

[Marty]

Lori I will address these things separately because I feel there is a combination of things going on:

I have had more than my share of troubles with sand colic down south Florida. Here is how to test for sand:

Take a jar and fill it 3/4 way up with water. Add a fed of turds. Give it a few minutes to settle to the bottom of the jar and see how much sand is on the bottom. You might have to shake the jar. If there is any at all, your horse is majorly sanded. That being said I would treat for sand anyhow by the use of Sandblast. I prefer it over Sandclear as it is easier to use and works instantly and the directions call for a ten day in a row purge (clean out flush) which is why it is so effetive in my opinion. The problem with Sandblast however is that horses hate it at first and will refuse to eat it and you cannot get it wet or mix with any liquid. Just mix it with a little amount of feed and leave it there and the horse will eventually give up and eat it. It might take a couple of days but don't give in. Use it. Do a 1/3 of regular dosage. AFter the initial flush out, then you do this (I think) just once a month for three days if my memory serves me correctly.

I would also be feeding the horse a small sloppy beet pulp. Disney is correct. The University of Florida has done research and proved that the use of beet pulp does break down sand particles and helps push them out. If the horse is weak, you can replace the soaked water with straight Gatorade for a good jump start.

Next I would be treating for worms via a 5 day Safeguard de-wormer. The belly can also be huge due to worms and treating with Safeguard cannot hurt a thing and only help. This can easily be worm colic.

I would also be treating for ulcers like so many others have said. Gastroguard is a wonderful product and I have had horses turn the corner on this within 3 days and bounce right back.

Last but not least, I feel this horse's limited amount of grass is not good. I would keep this little one in the yard on as much grass as possible. Grass is mother nature's healer in times of stress and colic again, only in my humble opinion and will help to move things along.

 

[kaykay]

Last but not least, I feel this horse's limited amount of grass is not good. I would keep this little one in the yard on as much grass as possible. Grass is mother nature's healer in times of stress and colic again, only in my humble opinion and will help to move things along.

Marty I so agree! I have seen several horses come back from the brink of death because they were hand walked on grass when they would refuse to eat anything else. It is the best thing

 

[lilfolks]

Some years back I had a mini with ulcers and what you are describing with up and down movements sounds like what my horse did at the time. I'm suprised out of 2 Vets that at least one of them didn't suspect ulcers. But it could be something else too. I think I would call a 3rd Vet in ASAP.

Joyce

 

[alphahorses]

In any of the cases above, she is going to need a lot more care than just hand walking - hoping that they can get a little more aggressive with their treatment and get her to a hospital where some diagnostics can be done - even a small animal hospital might have equiment that can help her.
Stacy

I agree - sounds like it is time to get her to a hospital. I'm surprised one of your vets didn't recommend it based on your description.

 

[twister]

I have no advice to add to the good advice you have been given by others but I wanted to say prayers and good thoughts from here for Baby to recover quickly.

Yvonne

 

[bevann]

SAND.I have just been through a mild colic with my mare and I live where it is very sandy.My vet tubed her with a mix of metamucil and epsom salts.He had to work very fast because it clogs up the tube.She was done on Thursday some better by Friday but still not right.Done again on Monday&Tuesday and is now fine.He said it often takes 4 or 5 times to clean them out.My vet is excellent with Minis and has over 20 years experience with Minis.Tell your friend to get help immediately.I feed Equus brand pellets(smells like licorice) every time my horses eat.This avoids some of the problems.Good luck and keep us posted.