hardshipping question

[Tatonkas Dream]

I've tried to figure out how to hardship my little mini (bought and papers never came as promised)

He needs to be reg with AMHA first then AMHR will accept him but the waiting until he's 5 yrs old how is this proven without papers?

I know many vets over the years that age a horse either a year or 2 off or really off there actual DOB when it comes to coggins.

I've also seen them have the same horse (grade) and from year to year inspect the teeth and one year its 12 the next its 15 in the same vets eyes.

So how do you prove to AMHA that your mini is over 5 years old?

hopefully this isn't too silly a question

 

[muffntuf]

Do you know who you bought it from? What the dam and sire's names are? WHen did you buy him, at what age did you buy him?

 

[sfmini]

Aging a horse for the first 11 years or so is very easy to do. It is when they are older that it is harder. So, when I inspect a horse for hardshipping, I use the teeth to verify age.

I had to memorize the below poem back in school many years ago:

The Age of a Horse

by O. R. Gleason

To tell the age of any horse

Inspect the lower jaw, of course.

The six front teeth the tale will tell,

And every doubt and fear dispel.

Two middle nippers you behold

Before the colt is two weeks old.

Before eight weeks two more will come;

Eight months the corners cut the gum.

The outside grooves will disappear

From middle two in just one year;

In two years from the second pair;

In three years "corners," too, are bare.

At two the middle "nippers" drop.

At three the second pair can't stop.

When four years old the third pair goes.

At five a full new set he shows.

The deep black spots will pass from view

At six years from the middle two;

The second pair at seven years;

At eight the spot each corner clears.

From middle "nippers" upper jaw

At nine the black spots will withdraw.

The second pair at ten are bright;

Eleven finds the corners light.

As time goes on, the horsemen know,

The oval teeth three-sided grow.

The old horse has more "whoa" than "get"

We keep him only for a pet.

 

[Tatonkas Dream]

Thanks for the replies

I have a bus card for the farm (Little Texas Angels Minis) that I got him from, I've asked and asked for his papers and just got the run around - OH! should have never taken him without them in hand the day he was delivered, I know better and still just couldn't wait for my first mini to be 'home'.

I was told pedigree verbally but can not remb for the life of me what they rattled off that first day nor if any of it was even true.

Long story but turns out this farm took about 20 from a farm in LA (no idea the name) in trade for selling these for this farm they got 3 really nice mares at a greatly reduced price. And all my calling to the people I got him from lead to oh yeah - were working on it, oh I haven't gone back to her farm yet, to being told they had no photos of him so to send them to them, to take and send and then be told we don't need these...etc kind answers (then no answers at all) Part of me wonders if they had a falling out with the LA farm and the LA farm decided to stop all contact with them. And at this point part of me really wonders if any of its true.

I've thought about small claims court but have no idea how it all really works cuz for me it is not give me my papers or take the horse back and give me my money. I am very much in

with Tatonka.

I have a copy of a health cert pulled to get them from LA to TX and it lists him as Redman pintolossa colt 16 mths old - I think he was at this "middle man" farm for about 4-6 mths before I bought him in April of 06. So guesstimation is just over 3 to 3 1/2.

I do realize I've got a ways to go - but I've been thinking what if the inspector comes out and disagrees with his age, what about fees etc. I really want to show him - so I'll be applying right as he turns 5 (to my knowledge)

And I know that its a personal choice - there are so many papered horses I could 'replace' him with but Tatonka is just that special to me that I want him to be able to be shown.

I've gotten a 2nd stallion to show for the next 2 years and as my very mini herd sire (I've got 3 girls) so the babies can be reg stock. Tatonka is still currently a stallion but will be gelded in the near future (now that Xmas $$ is out of the way)

As a side note they really are like potato chips I thought I'd have 2 to keep each other company and have as companions poss show down the road...

 

[Relic]

l bought a registered filly one year on my bill of sale it said she was AMHA registered but when she came here she came without papers. l called the sellers many times they wanted nothing to do with me once l paid and she was in transport. Lesson learned ask for copies up front. l did have a lawyer sent them a letter stating they sold her registered which was the reason for me buying and if papers weren't forwarded l would be willing to take it to court and within 2 months her paperwork was in my name. lf it wasn't one of there horses maybe he was never reg even thought he could be so l would get a lawyer to send of a note shouldn't cost a lot and see what happens instead of waiting and hardshipping.

 

[Tatonkas Dream]

Thanks Relic

Is there a specific type of lawyer to contact... sorry but I've only ever used a divorce lawyer

and it makes me mad - of course - as he was my herd sire and show horse prospect, 2007 lead me to breding 2 mares to outside stallions as well as getting a 2nd stallion to show from now til hardshipping is avab.

I too have wondered about him being from reg stock and papers weren't sent in when he was a baby and now they don't want to pay the fees to reg him as an older horse.

I've also condered asking for the papers and or the funds to hardship him from the previous owners... all while feeling really stupid as I know better - the day she delieverd him I (gut feeling red flag) he was del without papers and the bill of sale (invoice blanket type thing) is marked as reg on the way.

But I can kick myself as I should have listened to my gut - asked for my money back and told them when the have papers in hand to deliver him then.

I was thinking with heart not head - SIGH I was so excited to have a horse again (the divorce lead to me selling my standard size horse) and the house I could afford has one acre so having 2 standard sizes didn't seem like an option to me so I decided on minis and

them and most the folks involved with them.

anyway rambling - if you know what type of lawyer thatd be great

 

[Relic]

l used a law office next door to my bank when l was in town l just went in there and asked about what l could do and was told they would write the offender a letter it cost me 25 bucks cash and was about 6 years ago now. And l still am very happy l did that and threatened those people even knowing that wasn't going to happen about going to court. Whatever works is worth a try if within a reasonable price..

 

[Mona]

Also, do you realize just what the costs will be to get him reg'd AMHA and AMHR through hardshipping?? If this is a stallion, you will be looking at probably close to $2000 in fees and costs by the time all is said and done, if not more!

 

[Tatonkas Dream]

Yes thats a big reason as to why I will be gelding him, and then its 700 for A and R from what I can research.

I have gone back and forth on it as far as gelding or keeping him a stallion and my thinking is even if I spent the 2000 to hardship as a stallion his pedigree is still unknown so ?? how that would effect his foals as bloodlines are important for most people showing.

As a stallion he'll either stay grade (which I am not wanting to offend anyone but I am not 'for' breeding grade horses) or get gelded and I'll hardship him into both so I can show

Of course my other option is to geld and I can only show him at the local driving club events as its open to all breeds and grade horses, as well as driving him in the same club's trail rides/picnics days, maybe Christmas parade, and of course drive him around the neighborhood. I am also looking into (after gelding him) finding out if there are any orgs that I can participate in nursing home / therapy visits. As a stud his temperment is great as a gelding I think he'd make an awesome therapy mini.

I'll still love him no matter what. I'm at 5 (horses) and he honestly has just taken a special place in my heart and I'd love to show him at mini shows and then yes do go back thru the list above of what else I can do and not worry about papers. I was told by someone that it was 3 yrs for hardshipping and why I made a list of is it worth it to hardship, (I was gearing up to start the process now) but now I have another 2 years to decide about it.

I've gotten a registered performance stallion so at least I can start showing this year - I am so excited - I've had horses most my life but have only been to 2 shows. My xmas present to myself was a horse trailer and a starter leather harness. Many things have come into place so that I can show and I feel like a little kid at Christmas.

 

[RJRMINIS]

I just want to say reading your post, I think he is VERY lucky to have a loving owner like you!!!! I hope it works out for you to get him registered. Good Luck. I think I would try the letter as well ~~drawn up by a lawyer.

 

[Tatonkas Dream]

Oh thank you

KScowgirl

I think Tatonka picked me as much as I picked him... large field ??? maybe 40 weanling/yearlings (mixed mares/studs) and he kept coming up to me just stood there no halter on or nothing while I walked around and looked at confirmation. very curious in my face kinda boy (and of course the owners who yes could have been full of it) said he's been a field horse and usually doesn't come up to people like this...

so maybe for both of us it was

at first sight... personality matters most to me and he's great little guy and had color to boot.

How he ended up with his name too - as in an abstract way he has a buffalo head on his left side and Tatonka is Indian for 'buffalo' and was also used as a term of endearment 'beloved' or 'sacred one' to me he's all that and then some.

He's a lifer - it would take drastic unforseen events for him to be sold with or without his papers

thanks again everyone

 

[Mona]

Well he certainly picked the right home! Good Luck with him!