Guess Ill Just Stop Showing

[kaykay]

Not really LOL. I didnt want to hijack the other thread so started a new one.

I just get so irritated when people post so much that wins mean nothing and its all political and its only people with money or who you know that win.

Well I am none of those things. Im not a big farm, I dont have money, I dont have a trainer, no judges in my pockets and yet we manage to bring home some pretty good placings. You would probably be hard pressed to find many judges who even know who I am unless they live in my area. We have showed horses to Congress Champions, National Area Champions, World and hopefully someday we will have a National Champion. (its a goal

I just am not seeing all these political placings etc that so many seem to see. Have I seen a few?? Yes. But they are definitely in the minority. And you know what?? I put my big girl panties on and continue on to the next show and show my horse again.

I feel strongly for ME that my horses and what Im producing have to go out and prove themselves. Now if others dont want to show that is fine! No big deal as I totally understand that not all enjoy it or want to do it. But please dont demean the wins and work of people that do and say its all who you know etc.

It is so much dang work to get a horse show ready and trained and groomed etc. Just very discouraging to read this stuff when we all work so hard

 

[~Lisa~]

Not really LOL. I didnt want to hijack the other thread so started a new one.
I just get so irritated when people post so much that wins mean nothing and its all political and its only people with money or who you know that win.

Well I am none of those things. Im not a big farm, I dont have money, I dont have a trainer, no judges in my pockets and yet we manage to bring home some pretty good placings. You would probably be hard pressed to find many judges who even know who I am unless they live in my area. We have showed horses to Congress Champions, National Area Champions, World and hopefully someday we will have a National Champion. (its a goal

I just am not seeing all these political placings etc that so many seem to see. Have I seen a few?? Yes. But they are definitely in the minority. And you know what?? I put my big girl panties on and continue on to the next show and show my horse again.

LOL I agree at convention last year I was talking about something during a meeting and stood up and proudly said I am at the bottom of the pecking order in this registry. I am not known nor am I important...(and I am really ok with that)

Yet I have managed to get top tens and place well locally - not cause I have money HA or a trainer or am friends with judges

are my horses the best nope they are not - THey are correct, some are typey they are straight and can hold their own in the middle of the pack and that to me is something to be proud of . Ok except Dancer who has proven to be in the top 10 percent over and over again but I cant take credit for that all I did was buy her and when I show her I am mearly a passenger she does all the work and I try to stay out of her way

All of that said I can easily claim my horses are National quality but they need to get there to show it. I can also claim I am a top model.. doesnt make it so LOL

That is why many small farms sell horses very cheaply to those who do show so the name can get out there and there is no show expense to those who dont have the $ to do it.

I know with my illness and circumstances I can not show as much and Raven can only do so much. This is why I really do not breed a lot anymore- but you can bet when I have a foal for sale if I believe it is quality I will stand behind that statement and make sure it goes to a show home the proof is in the pudding and if that means I give someone an awesome foal for 500 bucks.. so be it the amount of advertising one gets from having horses do well in the show ring is worth far more then the price of one of my foals.

Wanted to add I do not think showing is the most important thing however with our little horses they have just less options then large horses - large horses have many different circuits to show in, they can be trail horses, show horses, roping horses - lesson horses whatever.. our minis in general seem to have many less options pet, show or breed this is the only reason I think showing either yourself or someone else showiong your stock is a good indicator for anyone before they breed

One of the biggest compliments a small farm can get is when a avid show person is interested in one of their horses..

 

[Irish Hills Farm]

I just get so irritated when people post so much that wins mean nothing and its all political and its only people with money or who you know that win.

I was just curious if your feelings of wins do mean something only apply to sanctioned shows. I think there are several people who show, be it sanctioned shows or open shows, feel that their placings count too.

As far as politics go, it's out there and does happen. Some shows its more obvious than others. If your going to show you either deal with it, i.e. keep showing or don't, i.e. stop showing. It's apart of the game.

 

[Alisha514]

Kay I totally agree with you. I love showing the minis. I used to show big horses and still do but I love going to the mini shows (Rated and open) cause the people are so friendly and helpful, and I dont see the politics at all. I also train my own and dont have the money or the HIGH dollar horses but I still manage to do pretty decent at the AMHR shows. With our big horses, we hardly ever come home with anything cause we also train them our selves and they are not high dollar, highly trained horses. It is definetly politics and who you know when your in the big horse world. I dont feel like that in the mini horse world.

Alisha

 

[~Lisa~]

Not Kay but can answer for me.. I have a now 5 yr old out there showing ADS and CDE with his owner in CA and they are doing great have been for a couple of years now and I am THRILLED

I think there are beautiful horses who never see the show ring and not so beautiful horses who see it all the time I just think as a breeder of anything you should have a way to truly tell (besides your own eyes) if something is up to the standard- that said I can be honest and say I have led to the overpopulation of minis I have bred just to breed when I first started thinking I had quality when I clearly did not (well clear to me now anyway)

I am not sitting in judgement as a person who believes they are better then...

I have totally been "part of the problem" I can not change that nor can I (or do I want to) change anyone else all I can do is the best I can for myself in my little corner of the world and hope that at the end of the day I have made a positive difference somehow someway

 

[txminipinto]

I show because I love to. And that's what it's about when you boil it right down to the bones. Those of us that show, do it because we love it. Yes....some of us get paid to do it. Some of us do it to promote our stock. But none of us get rich from it and we all do it because we love it.

Tired of getting beat in the ring? Then do something to change it! Have someone video you and the competition and figure out what sets the competition apart from you! Find a more successful exhibitor who'll take you under their wing and teach you the tricks to help give you an edge. Upgrade your horse if you have to! But DON'T kick the dirt, stomp off, and tell people back in the barn you were beat because of POLITICS. Politics can work for and work against you. I've seen it happen BOTH ways. And in reality, it has very little to do with most placings. Unless a judge is completely suicidal, most classes place were they should. And sometimes, there's only a hair difference between first and second place anyway.

YOU have to put forth the effort to place well in the show pen. You may have the best horse or the best pattern, but if you didn't put forth the effort to present a complete package your placings may reflect that. Judges pay attention to those who pay attention to detail.

 

[chismhill]

Here goes and I hope I dont ramble,, just my little ole opinion..

I do it because I absolutly love it,, from fitting, showing, breeding, pedigress and crossing those pedigress to see the final result.. I eat and sleep it.. I am very competitive though,, and I do see the politics,, but guess what it goes on everywhere,, we show Limousin Cattle and Boer Doe goats also.

I do love to win, sometimes we do ,sometimes we dont, dont mind getting beat by a good pony, as long as that good pony is showing to type, which gets me the most showing off type,, I read the rule book,,

We try to show in the classes that our ponies fit in,, I cant help the fact for instance The judges use a pleasure pony over a Country pleasure pony,, in a COuntry class.. Thats where it needs to start.. when the judging changes people wont enter if they realize they wont win... If someone is not in the right class dont place them then explain to them where they need to be..,, but you have to know the rules first...

Thank GOD, I do have two trainers,, one for halter and one for driving,, I get them ready and send them off,, I cant haul as often as I would like so the trainers do that for me... THanks by the way to Leah Johnson and Carrie Cooper Thurman.

We have only been in the Shetland Business about 4 years now, and have had great success, with a great investment in the businesss I will continue to support my local and National clubs. We must strive to do this together ,how sad would it be to see a 125 yo association fold.

I plan on growing old with my SHETLANDS, GOOD LORD WILLING..

 

[user 488]

I just get so irritated when people post so much that wins mean nothing and its all political and its only people with money or who you know that win.

I couldn't agree more. In fact I was going to add to the "other" thread but I deleted my post. THAT thread was about what makes a TOP breeder. Not a GOOD breeder. There is a definite difference. Nobody is going to be a TOP breeder unless they put their horses up against their peers.

I hear people cry politics all the times. And yes there is politics in almost everything we do and that is human nature and it will never change. You go to a show and it's one person's opinion and you take it or leave it. You can always tell the newbies or the people with lesser quality because they are the ones dissecting and hashing over every single class at the show. Once you have been around for a while you learn to take what you get, MOVE ON, and you go on to the next class. Simple as that.

But when it comes right down to it the best horse that is in the best condition that is the best presented usually win. I have attended probably over 60 US and Canadian National Championships in my lifetime and you can always bet that you will be scratching your head over 2 or 3 in every single Top Ten. Does that mean politics? NO! It just means that the judges had a different opinion than yours.

When it comes right down to it this said a lot to me:

that said I can be honest and say I have led to the overpopulation of minis I have bred just to breed when I first started thinking I had quality when I clearly did not (well clear to me now anyway)

:yeah

It is this type of person that I admire the most. A person that can actually remove those blinders and get on with the business of improving their show stock. (and breeding stock, for that matter)

There are just too many people out there thinking they have quality horses when the don't. They just cannot see their own horses for what they are. Take your blinders off and that is when you will succeed in the show ring. If you want to show go out and buy ONE GOOD HORSE! Better to own one good one then 5 mediocre horses. IMHO anyway.

Of course showing isn't for every and everyone cannot afford it. That's fine!! But if you are going to play the game you have to be sure you are up to what the game may bring. And if you go to a number of shows and you do not fare well.......that better tell you something. Because that is NOT politics.

Tired of getting beat in the ring? Then do something to change it!

 

[JWC sr.]

Kay Kay,

Don't let the sour grapes from a few people rain on your parade. Personally I am proud of what Cindy has accomplished thru dedication, hard work and constantly paying attention to the details required to produce, fit and show horses that have won for her on a national level.

Do you or someone like my dear wife have reason to be proud of your accomplishments, I say yes you do.

I have watched and been a small part of the mini operation around here for over 25 years while Cindy has culled, redirected, learned, fitted, bred and ultimately produced the national champions, reserve national champions, top tens and national high point horses she has in recent years. She did not come by those titles easily, nor did she buy any of them. And further I refuse to apologize for her having the sucesses she has earned in my eyes.

With all that said I personally believe there are a lot of good horses produced by folks with only one or two to work with. And given the chance they might be able to do great things. But for one reason or another they never get the chance to prove it on the big stage ie: Nationals or World show. For those of us committed and/or lucky enough to have that chance it is indeed an ingratiating experience.

Are there politics involved, of course sometimes there are. Is that the reason that certain horses win when others don't? Not most of the time! usually when it gets to the level of the World or National show it comes down to splitting of hairs and personal preferences from individual judges. The horses are getting that good and improving every year.

I am sure the next thing that will come up in this thread is that trainers always win. Well in a lot of cases they should. I know for a fact the top three or four trainers in the country actively go out and look at herds thru out the USA in order to pick the show string they will show each year. I know of one trainer that went thru over 1800 horses last year in order to pick the 20 or so they would fit and show this year. With that kind of pool to pick from I would expect them to have some really great horses on the show string. I think any honest thinking individual would recognize that also.

So enjoy your titles and wins be they from Nationals, Worlds, local shows or wherever none of them come without a price in sweat and hard work being paid. I for one appreciate that hard work and recognize how difficult it is to achieve those type results.

Oh and to answer one of the other posters question about does a win on the national level, mean more than one at an un-sanctioned local show or somewhere in the middle of that range. My answer is no it probably does not in the mind of the individual, but from having experienced both levels the National wins are much harder to come by and require a completely different caliber horse to consistently compete in. So a smart person would take all that into consideration when comparing wins wherever they came from.

With all that and 1.50 you might be able to get a cup of coffee in the right spot. Okay I have had my say now I am ready to be roasted at the stake.

 

[muffntuf]

It's true, there are politics and you might be a victim to it once in awhile. BUT if you don't put yourself in the ring - you will not improve your program or yourself as a show person.

I have been showing for almost 5 years, this will be my 4th Congress this year. I set my sights high, I competed in the open classes right away, but more to learn. And I picked hard divisions - MP, ASPR and classics (which I personally think is harder to show than the other two, but the other two are harder to get ready for to show), I didn't start placing well until last year. This year has been an improvement over last year. Maybe in another 10 years I will always place well, who knows.

If you don't put the effort in, don't get your stock out there, don't visit with people, don't learn or don't make it a goal to improve-- you never will.

To all of us - its a process of improvement, and you need to love to do it.

 

[Frankie]

I use to be bothered by the politics,,but got over it years ago. Because I wasn't changing a thing! I had to change me and my horses, and I think I have. How I place is all because of things I have or haven't done, no one else.

I am one of those who use a trainer.

Several reasons.

I still need to learn and they help me to do so.

The horse is better than what I can do for them.

I am single with a 16 year old and work a 60 hour week.

I hate sometimes having to appologize for using one. As long as they have hotdogs at 99 cents a pack, I will continue to use one. I give a little so they get better.

I show because I love to show. I only show horses who too love to show. I pulled 2 over the years from trainers because they, the horse, hated it!

Anyone can place, and do with a good horse! I think those yelling in the barn later about not placing,have their own political agenda, as I've seen that happen because how THEY personally felt about the person at the end of the lead.

2 years ago Jazz and I showed at Nationals, ammy class, and we placed. I am about a nobody as they come. Even after the nobody unhooked the lead from the halter. Jazz continued to show, she is a good horse, that's why we/she placed.

When I show and place, we had fun,,,,when I show and don't place,,,not only can I NOT tell you who beat me, I had fun! So I'll keep showing.

 

[RockRiverTiff]

I agree that politics are out there, but I also agree that they are an exception not the rule. Over the years we've had a couple trainers and our horses (big and small) did pretty well with them. A few years back when we did away with the trainers I thought, "That isn't so hard. I can do that." And I pulled my horses from the pasture and hauled them to a couple shows. Did it hurt my ego to get my butt beat by people that had put months into conditioning their horses and years into perfecting their craft? Of course, but I also learned a valuable lesson about what it truly takes to win. I took a step back, left my horses at home, and went to a few shows (including both the Nationals and the Worlds) with a pad and a pen. I got a good seat, and I wrote my own placings for every class. And I discovered that when my own horses weren't in the ring, I almost always agreed with the judges.

What makes me really sad about the whole ongoing politics debate is that it seems to discourage so many people from showing, and so people that have never actually been a victim of politics go on perpetuating the idea that they exist and in the process miss the chance to learn something and maybe even win something with their own horses.

 

[kaykay]

Thank you so much John!! I would love to meet your wife as I think we must be twins LOL

And I in no way think using a trainer is a bad thing. I have used Laura at Nationals a few years ago and may use her again at Nationals this year if I can get the $$ together

Like Tiff said it really turns new people off when they read that you cant possibly win unless you have a famous trainer or your a big farm or you pay someone off. Its just not true! And I think there are a lot like me that show and arent a big name, dont have tons of money and train themselves and do well.

And yes I do love to show and get out and see friends and socialize and show my horses! Its way too much fun

 

[Just Us N Texas]

Okay, at the chance of being flamed, let me chime in my two cents worth. I have been in the horse industry in one breed or another for many, many years. Well over 50. I think anytime you win, it is to you the equivilent of winning the Nationals, World, or whatever. And yes, over the years I have definitely seen politics happen. So has everyone that is honest with themselves. I have seen it happen in our favor, and out of our favor. When someone gripes that the trainers always win, think of it this way: That trainer works his horses everyday. After all, that is how he earns his payday check. We as the owners of horses that we show, probably just don't have the motivation to work them every day and as effectively as the trainers do because we also have to work, put up hay, go visiting, etc., etc. Our livelihoods just don't depend on getting the results the trainers do. Life has a way of getting in our way. We pick and choose the shows we go to. Trainers try and go to all of them in order to get their horses shown, do well, and collect paychecks. I am not saying that we as owners and showing our own don't work hard, just that we don't have the same motivation. They also have to stay on top of the latest "trends", and ways of grooming and showing in the ring. All these things change from time to time as new products come on the market. You know, like the newest grooming aids, bits, harnesses, etc., the latest style of halter and so forth. The trainers are the first to know because they are constantly on the show circuits, and see the newest and latest. They really don't have an easy life. Besides all the work they do, they have to put up with us owners!

 

[Riverdance]

I have shown dogs for over 30 years and no matter how much we may not like it, there is politics in anything. Still.......I managed to have over 100 Champions that I showed myself. I just did not compete for Best In Show as I knew how political that was. I was also one of the top breeders in that breed. Many Tibetans winning today have my dogs in their pedigrees.

As for showing Miiatures. I too can not afford trainers. But, I want to be able to win on my horses meritts anyway, and not because of who is on the other end of the lead. Do I get frustrated at some shows, sure, but I too manage to come home with Grand and Reserve Grand Championships, sometimes Supremes too and even an AMHA World Championship and a AMHR Reserve National Championship. ALL OWNER HANDLED. With horses that have been bred by me. That is what makes it so exciting.

My breeding program has to be good enough for me to be able to do this. Do I want to improve my breeding program? All the time. Each year I strive for a better and better foal crop. So far, so good

I enjoy showing and do not feel that I have to have my horses with trainers (though perhaps once in a while it would be nice)! Just think how much time I would have on my hands.

Anyway, for all of us who enjoy showing our own horses and our own breeding.............................YOU GO GIRL!!

 

[madmax]

Just my 2 cents, but in the 23 years of owning miniatures and getting out and showing some of them, I have had trainers kick my butt, but I have kicked theirs as well, it goes both ways and I think that is probably true everywhere.

I have shown local, championship shows and nationals, just my daughter and myself doing all the sweat, blood and tears involved to do just that, and we loved it all, you have to love it to do it. You take the highs with the lows, learn by doing and watching, lots and lots of watching!

I found satisfaction when we won because we did it all ourselves, when we didn't, of course we felt down, but you learn and you go on if you love that feeling of showing off your homebred and raised horses.

Out of my herd, I have 14 horses I raised, trained and got Grand ribbons on all, managed to get a couple of Supremes, some got a few Worlds top tens, and we had fun! Fun was important to us too. Are they better than most? No, but they are the best in my heart, because they have the look that I admire, are all well-mannered, good natured, easy to handle by anyone and give back the love we dole out to them daily.

 

[Bess Kelly]

The horse is the key here...........not politics (although it exists). John summed it up, the trainers who are and have been out there, have the pick of the crop so to speak. Does that mean you do not have a horse that is better? Not necessarily BUT, it's trainer (you

) may not be as good as that pro trainer in bringing and presenting even the best horse.

It takes soooooooooo much work to get even a great horse ready and keep them trained & conditioned that most of us don't have the time and often knowledge to tweak them. Can a small farm win big with this situation? Hard but still possible.

The horse is the key. Conformation must be there, conditioning must be there, a winning attitude must be there, being "on" the day of the show must be there. Yes, a small farm can win. The horse is the key.

Any win is a pleasure. A top win at AMHA/R Nationals is absolutely cloud nine.

I appreciate the work a trainer must do!! They sure earn their $$$.

 

[Taylor Jo]

I love to show, I had a horrid year last year and for the past couple of years I only had 2 mini's. This year I went to 4 mini's and I took them all to a trainer, BEST decision I EVER made. This year in the ring my horses have been kicking butt. I've NEVER won so much. BEFORE, I felt like there was politics involved cause I kept seeing all these trainers and same horses win, PLUS THEY were NICE horses. AND I knew my two were struggling. Then I hit the circuit with my feet running this year. I was like oh my gosh these judges LOVE my horses I can't believe it. Now a couple of the judges I personally knew but I don't think they showed me any favortism I think they judged me on merrit cause their opinion was a lot like the other judge too. So for me, I got over it real quick about their being politics with the judges and the show person. Sure their probably is some in some places but I didn't feel like it this year at our horse shows. And I'm sure in the past it wasn't I think before I had a tinge of jealousy, ache in my heart and frustration, cause I couldn't get my horses to do what other horses were doing. Actually, I'm still having some trouble in halter, I stretch their necks out to far, anyway...... Poltics, no poltics I'd still show. TJ

 

[icspots]

guess I'll play devil's advocate here

I don't think ANYBODY said they won't show because of politics, it is in every facet of our lives. What people are saying is that who wins the nationals and the congress shouldn't necessarily be the MOST IMPORTANT part of deciding who a top trainer is or what direction you need to take your breeding program, there are just too many other factors to consider

 

[Sun Runner Stables]

*waves*

I am a nobody- and have a friend helping me who if anything is the oppsite of the political darling.

We've managed to show and do pretty well. I have to say that there are polotics out there, and they always will be-

But "Just us in Texas" made excellent points- trainers know what they must do to keep clients-

Win.

A true story told to me- Takes place after a trainer had won Reserve Grand Champion against a horse that shortly went on to win Champion of Champions.

When coming out of the ring, the trainer, knowing they truly had the second best horse was pleased, Reserve against the best horse out there!

The Owner's response?- "You're just the first Loser."

As I used to teach and train pony kids, I know that pressure to win as well. Trainers have to play the game to make sure they can make that mortgage, it becomes a sobering thought when you look at it that way I think-