Genetic color question

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Birchcrestminis

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Got a question for you ...

Can a grey horse and a chestnut horse produce chestnut and bay offspring?

That is when bred together? In order to produce a chestnut foal, the grey would have to

be hiding a chestnut gene, so I wouldn't think you could get a bay offspring from this

same pair , right?

Thanks
 
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Yes, depending on what the "GREY"'s base color is.. Grey is NOT a color, but a modifier that over time covers up the base color.. So it is possible that your "grey" is actually a chestnut carrying the grey gene..

You can get a chestnut foal from a bay X chestnut cross, though the odds for a bay foal is much higher:

58.34% -Bay

33.33% -Chestnut

8.33% - Black

I have a chestnut colt out of a black to silver bay cross where the odds for getting a chestnut is much lower than the bay to chestnut cross:

70.31% -Bay

23.44% -Black

6.25% -Chestnut
 
Here is my question worded a little different...

If a grey horse was bred to a chestnut horse, and their first foal

was a chestnut, could this same pair bred together again ever produce

a bay colored foal?

Thanks
 
Here is my question worded a little different...If a grey horse was bred to a chestnut horse, and their first foal

was a chestnut, could this same pair bred together again ever produce

a bay colored foal?

Thanks
It would depend on what color the grey was before turning grey. Was the base bay? Or, was it chestnut? Do you know what color the grey's parents were?
 
If a grey horse was bred to a chestnut horse, and their first foalwas a chestnut, could this same pair bred together again ever produce

a bay colored foal?
Again, grey is a modifier, so you will need to determine the horse's true base coat first..
 
I have a gray mare bred to a chestnut stallion (both pintos) so I can relate. It not only depends on what the gray really is (genetically) but the chestnut can hide the agouti gene for bay, as our stallion does. In our case, our "gray" is really a silver bay frame overo - LWO+, homozygous for black (EE) and carries agouti and of course the gray modifier.

Testing of both sire and dam will tell you what you need to know.
 
Thanks folks.

Mini color genetics are complicated!

The question came about because a friend of mine who

has Arabians said they couldn't produce a bay foal, since

the combo had produced a chestnut, and I didn't know.
 
Thanks folks.Mini color genetics are complicated!

The question came about because a friend of mine who

has Arabians said they couldn't produce a bay foal, since

the combo had produced a chestnut, and I didn't know.
Your Arabian friend does not understand genetics. If the gray is a bay that has grayed out, it can produce both chestnut and bay. If you bred two chestnuts together, they would not be able to produce a bay, but a bay to a chestnut can, regardless what breed the horse may be, genetics is genetics. Mini genetics is no different.
 
You can get a chestnut foal from a bay X chestnut cross, though the odds for a bay foal is much higher:
58.34% -Bay

33.33% -Chestnut

8.33% - Black

I have a chestnut colt out of a black to silver bay cross where the odds for getting a chestnut is much lower than the bay to chestnut cross:

70.31% -Bay

23.44% -Black

6.25% -Chestnut
That's taken off that site with the color predictor thingy on it, but it makes no genetic sense at all; I never get how that thing does its figuring

If you breed Bay to chestnut and the bay is heterozygous black...

you actually have a 50/50 chance of black base and of those 50% black base, half will be bay and half will be black (assuming the bay parent is not homozygous for agouti) so

50% chestnut

25% bay

25% black

In the initial question, can grey x chestnut produce bay? yes, as others have already said.

Grey would have to be bay as its base color OR the grey could be black as its base color, and the chestnut parent carries agouti.
 
There are only two base colors, red and black. And any other combination of patterns and modifiers all revolve around those two base colors, it's the same for all horses.

Gray can modify either black based or red based horses. So, like others have said, we'd need to know the actual color of the grey. Also, to get a bay, there has to be an agouti gene coming from somewhere(bay is black based with the agouti gene). The fact that the cross produced a chestnut really doesn't tell us anything, because you already told us one was a chestnut(red based) so there's an automatic 50% chance of producing a red based foal. Agouti can hide in red based horses. So your two horses might both carry it or neither may carry it. If neither carry it, you can't get bay. If your gray is red based, you can ONLY get red based foals. RedXRed produced ONLY red. Now, depending on the modifers it could be red hiding agouti, palomino if the grey carries creme, red roan or red pinto patterns if the grey carries any of that or silver chestnut if either carries silver.

If the grey horse is black based, and heterozygous for black, than you could produce black based foals, but can also produce red based foals, and any combination depending on the modifiers. If the grey is homozygous for black, then the cross will only produce black based.

Also, when a parent is grey, there is a 50% chance that the offspring will be grey, which will hide any color eventually anyway, so a lot of people don't like to use them for breeding, especially pinto breeders.
 
Thanks to everyone for responding!

I think I get it now.

I knew the best and fasted way to get a question answered

was to take it to the forum.
 
It is possible, our grey tovero mare was bred to our Chestnut tovero mare, and they had a solid bay filly.
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I bred two Blacks together and got a bright Red filly!!!

Think of Grey as a "mask" with a colour underneath it, everything then depends on what is underneath the mask.

And, of course, Red does not show Agouti (which causes Bay) so it can get complicated!!

If you are interested in this, and I hope you are, come and join us at

http://equinecolor.proboards91.com/index.cgi

and ask away....there is no such thing as a stupid question and no matter how basic your questions you will get answers.....and, come to think of it, some nifty recipes and a few stories of peoples holidays.....we do tend to wander a bit, but it's fun!!
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