Gelding Getting Aggressive

[Jenny]

Hi everyone,

After having Breaker for about a month, I started noticing a few behavioural issues, but I didn't to much of it. He used to bite, and I stopped giving him treats by hand so it stopped for a while. Then he started to turn his butt towards me and try to kick me when I tried to get him out of the pasture, but he now comes in by himself with food. Now lately, he's been getting a bit more aggressive (pinning his ears back, trying to bite again). Today, I was just walking around his paddock, and he came towards me with his ears pinned back and rearing up at me several times and trying to kick me. I had to hide in the barn until he lost interest in me. I know that he is taking advantage of me because I am not being the boss like I should be. I know he can sense my fear. What's weird is that some days he'll be fine and well-behaved, and then all of a sudden something snaps and he attacks me. Also, if I discipline him by smacking him on the neck or any other place, it just makes it worse, he gets even more aggressive. I'm so new to this horse stuff, and I know that it's me that's doing something wrong here. I just don't know what to do... Any advice would be really appreciated

 

[Performancemini]

First thought I had was is he FULLY gelded? We had bought a Shetland gelding (a 3 year old) one time. We had him for the late summer and had him going well in harness. He was a sweet boy. The following spring he began calling and squealing at mares where we boarded and getting "smarty". Turns out whatever vet gelded him left "one". He was probably a crypt in the first place. We had him 're-gelded' (if you will) and got our sweet boy back. It's a thought anyway.

 

[MyMiniGal]

Here is what I was told to do....you need to act like you are going to "kill" them. Not only smack him, and I would get a crop to carry, but give a firm, loud "No!" at the same time, and just fling your arms all over the place. I know, easier said than done. It sounds like he knows he can push you around. I had to overcome my fear and be more assertive with Halo. So has my husband. I got us both crops, as she turned her butt to my husband and kicked out, like you are saying. He popped her a good one, a couple times, and now all he has to do, is hold the crop up, if she even thinks about turning her butt to him. But she hasn't done so, in awhile...in fact, we now can walk right up to her, while she is eating her feed and pet all over her and have things be fine. As that is why she was trying to be dominate with him. With me, she has turned her butt to me, once, while eating her hay and I held up my crop and she was like "Ooops, sorry" and turned her butt around and got a soft eye and good ears. It is like you can be loving, but you need to also be firm, when it is needed, so they know they are below you. But like I said, I would have a crop or whip and definitely use it. That way, you can stay a distance away, but get your point across.

I also agree with wondering why he has all the sudden started this? Has he acted off or sick at all?

 

[Jenny]

Thanks Performancemini and MyMiniGal,

I have no clue if he is fully gelded, I got him 4 months ago and he's three, I think he was gelded when he was two so I didn't own him them.

I'll have to get a crop in the near future. He has acted completely normal, but he has been running around a lot more than usual lately, but I don't think that indicates he is off or sick.

I went back up to the barn to see if he was acting any better and he charged at me again. I'm hoping he's just having a really bad day.

 

[Performancemini]

I think MyMiniGal has some good ideas; because he can't be allowed to have a dangerous attitude like that. As she says, you have to be fast and "kill" him in the first 3 seconds (so he knows why it happened, more or less). We have a (now) gelding who took a while to drop (actually, he had to have surgery to geld him) and he got pretty cocky, though not as bad as your fellow. But he liked to walk on his hind legs at me (scared me too) and he liked to leap in the air and do 360's and kind of kick out. He was scaring me off; but my husband wasn't scared of him and got him to start acting respectful. He is a nice gelding now. I think you should definitely talk with your vet about how to find out if he is fully gelded. You won't get rid of the behaviors if he is still a stallion (or half a one !).

 

[MyMiniGal]

That's scary and I feel for you. I know that even though I've been told what to do, that I sure pray if it ever happens, I remember to do it. Seems like a human's first instinct is to back away from things like that. I hope you can get it worked out soon.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

I'm thinking that what you are seeing, aside from the fact that he does not see you as the 'Boss' is a young horse with plenty of energy, feeling good and no one else to play with so he tries to treat you as he would another horse. I think what you are seeing is not to great a surprise in a young horse kept alone. More work, enough to tire him as well as firmer handling (and a companion to play with) would go a long way to solving the problem I think.

 

[Magic Marker Minis]

When I first got one of my stallions, I had him in halter and on a lead. I was trying to get him to lead and he reared up at me waving his front hooves. I immediately 'went after him' and shook the lead (it has/had a heavy swivel on it) and backed him up across the paddock. He quickly figured out that I WAS BOSS! He's never tried anything with me since. (That was 3 years ago.)

Kari

 

[Jenny]

My farrier said the same thing Reignmaker, only about his biting though. She said that he just gets his energy out by rubbing on me and biting me. Unfortunately a companion for him is not an option at this time, but I'm trying to exercise him more. He gets at least 3 good walks a week. Once I figure out how to convince him that his halter is a positive thing (I'm working on that one!), I'll try to take him out at least 5 times a week.

Magic Marker, luckily he is very good on the lead, and very polite for the most part (he has his moments).

 

[Carolyn R]

Y'ep, consistantly show him who is boss. This time of year they are full of spit and fire. The cold air and the breezes rusting about seem to energize them. Just be consistant and remember they are not made of glass. Disciplining them is usually much more traumatic for us than it is for them, watch horses establishing pecking order, they sometimes beat the snot out of one another.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

That ornery little boy! I have one of those, too.

Do you have access to a trainer? Just a couple of lessons would really be helpful for you and give you confidence.

Yes, do get a whip. I call it an "arm extender", or "wand". The dressage whip at the feed store is a good size.

 

[MyMiniGal]

Also, what I found out, was a couple times, I just held out my crop/stick, and made Halo walk around the paddock, the direction I wanted her too. If she tried to pass me, going the opposite direction, I hold out my crop/stick, and block her and sent her back the other way. When I do that, at the end, she is so loving, it is crazy. It is because I moved her feet, and make her walk like a boss mare would. Changes their thinking on things.

 

[Minimor]

What size paddock is he in? Does he run and play on his own? I would say that he does need more exercise than just 3 good walks a week. Even 5 walks a week....that's not real exercise for a horse. He needs to trot and canter to work off some energy. Do you longe him? By all means take him for walks, but I would also longe him 2 or 3 times per week, unless he is doing lots of running on his own in his paddock

When you get after him--say it like you mean it. If you are intimidated by him and are hesitant about disciplining him, he will know it and he won't have much respect for that discipline. If you're going to pop him with a crop, don't just tap him--give him a good whack so that it gets his attention. If he approaches you in an aggressive fashion, do not back down. Stand your ground, look at him with the attitude "I dare you to try it" and then be ready for him, if he does try anything, let him have it. Last winter I had a young stallion out on pasture with a group of horses. I walked out to check everyone and when I approached him he started toward me, which was normal. Then he stopped & looked at me, and this look came over his face--his ears went back and there was a dangerous look in his eyes. I had nothing--no whip, no halter or rope, but I stopped, looked at him and thought okay, you want to try it, you try it. If he'd come at me he would have encountered a fist, since I had nothing else to defend myself with. Suddenly that expression left his face & he plainly said nah, not going there! and he turned away. He recognized that I was not intimidated and knew I wasn't going to back down, He also knew that it wasn't in his best interest to push me. He'd never tried anything before & he never tried anything again after that; he is now a gelding and won't be trying anything like that again.

 

[paintponylvr]

I really like the responses you've gotten for correcting the aggressiveness. But I need to put in more for the exercise part, too. My 2 & 3 yr old geldings play more, for longer time periods and harder than the young stallions do!

I actually timed it a couple of weeks ago when I was out doing pasture & fence maintenance. They run; stop to bite at each other - grabbing ears, necks, throats, knees, cannons, hocks; they strike at each other and turn kicking at each other; then they are off to the races again. Come to a stop and two will break away and go up in the air, squealing and striking, drop to their knees grabbing at each other (no different than a true stallion fight) and then up again. One will drop out and take a breather, then when he joins back into the "melee", someone else takes a break. All in all that day - they ran and played hard for more than 5 hours in just the daylight part of the day. My "boys' paddock" isn't all that large - I'll have to measure it to be sure how big it is.

I've walked the pastures more than once at night and had them running and playing at night, too, though not quite the same.

When I take the "play instigators" out of the pasture to separate them, I've noticed that my normally "quiet" and laid back geldings are more hyper-active, pushy and just plain "playful" - dancing around. They will push any and all "envelopes", however, they aren't usually aggressive about it.

I also have 3 young stallions running with the gelded boys. 2 of them do play differently and they will also get much more aggressive with the geldings. Even the older, 13 hh gelding will run when the two stud boys let him know in no uncertain terms that he is where he shouldn't be... In the pic below - they thumped on each other for a while..., then Sami, the 13 hh 5 yr old gelding backed down and Oly had established that he was the winner of this for now.



and here they are a short time later while taking a breather.

AND part of it, at this time of the year is the change from hotter than hot and humid to briskly chilly! IF you call dropping from 75 earlier today to 35 right now at 9:55 pm, getting chilly. The boys spent a lot of time today instead of playing with each other they would just one at a time hump up and start bucking at the drop of a leaf in the breeze. The "pop" of a limb causes shying and an ez excuse for running - once again. But it's much more fun to run as a group...

All the boys are missing hair, bits of mane and a couple have noticeable parts missing from their tails from where their teeth and hooves catch each other. Sometimes a kick that's harsher or that doesn't "slide off" causes swelling on the body or leg of the one receiving it. And one day last week the two 2010 geldings, backed up and stood butt to butt - squealing and kicking/bucking at each other. They have lived together since they were born - yet they took exception to each other that day. They were both a bit sore the next day - but no major injuries, no blood or even ruffled hair.

Some but not all of our fillies rough house thru-out the day the same way!

I'd much rather have them chew on and kick at each other than me.

 

[chandab]

Going off what Paula said, I know my 3 yearling colts are better behaved after living with the older geldings for awhile. They are easier to handle now. They mostly rough house and play with each, but the geldings will join in when the mood strikes them. [All three are slated for gelding in the spring, I just didn't get to it this year.]

 

[Jenny]

Minimor, his paddock is about 40'x60', but now I keep the gate open to his pasture all day since it's covered in snow so he has an area about 100'x120'. He does run around a lot, and will do 10-20 laps around his area at least once a day. As for his walks, I should have rephrased that, he trots and I walk very quickly. We go for about 30 min. I don't have anywhere to lunge him right now, he also doesn't even know how to lunge.

Thanks for all the information everyone! I'm taking everything into consideration.

 

[paintponylvr]

When going for your walks, you could incorporate several NH techniques...

To do them, you will probably have to start at the beginning with teaching him how to yield his hind quarters, yield his forequarters, move out of your space, move into your space when you ask, back up thru various methods and at different speeds, etc. There are several different proponents or instructors/mentors that you can follow and since I started using the methods that I do, I know that there are more "new" ones out and about.

What you will find just from doing the beginning part is that you have a more respectful gelding who listens but will also move out. In the process of doing these various techniques, he will learn to lounge and you will learn to lounge him, too

Then when you take him on his walks, you can do "circle driving", "C-turns", "send-aways" (and you can use these to send him over the ditch next to your road), "call-backs" (you have him turn back towards you and return over/thru the ditch without running you over). You will have him thinking and responding, using his energy while conserving yours and you will both come to enjoy your walks and he won't be so pushy or aggressive. I think you will also find that you will both like these outings better than the current ones where he is "almost" dragging you...

Honestly, it doesn't take long to learn and then teach him these type of techniques (2 - 3 days in a row and then 2-3 more to "cement" the learning/understanding) and there's no reason you can't do them in the snow. Learning to teach him these exercises will also help you become more assertive (I think you may need that?) w/o being aggressive back when you become frustrated as eventually most do when faced with this young fella's type of antics.

I don't have many pictures - but here is a "wild" mare that our youngest daughter had started working with this summer. here she is leading next to Sierra, quite an accomplishment for this mare. As long as Sierra doesn't touch her, she does pretty well. Yes, we've worked with touching, picking up her legs/hooves etc. Yes, she's a little underweight here - she's a round butterball now...

Here she's calling her over one of our ditches. Thankfully (especially with this pony), we can do this on our property - not necessarily out on the road.

And another one (I don't know why none of my "sending" pics turned out) ...

This was both mental and physical work for this little mare, and she was much calmer and able to deal with Sierra starting to touch and groom her. However, Sierra's work schedule doesn't allow her to "play" much with the ponies and we still can't catch this mare reliably (first time in my life we've had problems with that for this long) w/o running her around the round pen where she lives, nor can we easily move around her or touch/groom her much... She's more than a little bit of a basket case

- but going back and looking at these pics that I took gives me hope that eventually we'll have a nice little mare that MAY join one of our harness hitches... That was the goal originally, anyway...

O, and last yes. Sierra is almost always barefoot when handling our ponies. I don't care for it, I don't condone it and I get pretty upset with her when she does that when I have either company or folks visiting to look at ponies. Our daughter would probably "croak" if she had had to dress the way I did when I've worked at QH barns in the west where I grew up (starched and pressed jeans, boots that arrived at work polished, white long sleeved, pressed shirts that were clean at the start of the day and changed as necessary!... I almost had a heart attack the first NC barn I walked into 10 years after I'd last worked in a QH barn and saw groomers in sports bras, short shorts and crocks or clogs)

 

[MyMiniGal]

I agree with Paintponylvr's last post. It isn't just about exercising just their body, it is their mind too. You need to do things to get their mind to thinking, and in the right way.

 

[Jenny]

Thank you paintponylvr! I'll be sure to try some of those techniques out

I'm hoping today will be a better day, and that he is a bit calmer. I feel a lot better thanks to everyone's excellent advice! I'll try to get a whip today, just in case he charges again.

 

[paintponylvr]

How tall are you?

Besides carrying the crop - if he ever tries charging you again - become a "big bear". Make yourself big - stand straight up, puff up your chest (yep - stick them boobs out, ROFLMBO), RAISE YOUR ARMS above your head and turn fingers into "claws" and charge at him, too! IT works - especially if you dont' have a crop yet. Any response from him - wether he back peddles, turns away or just stops - you stop and relax. If he backs his ears, returns to charge mode - return to "BIG BEAR" and ADVANCE towards him. Watch that if he turns away, he doesn't lash out and nail you with a back hoof (a natural response to the predator you've just become).

The main thing is to be "more scary" than him. Sometimes becoming a "big bear" is easier than becoming more assertive. You can also carry a rope, halter, whatever and you drop your arms and swing it in front of you. If he still comes after you, he will run into the rope, halter, crop. You haven't hurt him, he's hurt himself...

Consistency and learning to stop when he does - are really the hardest parts (well, and also facing him if he is truly charging you). MiniMor's style works WONDERS, too! A fist in the muzzle is a grand deterrent.