Frustrating fact...

[LindaL]

Higgs...I do not think God makes "abominations" when He creates human beings. Why would He do this since we are all made in his image? It is FACT that gay people are BORN gay and not gay by CHOICE. I know this to be true, because I am a lesbian and I knew from childhood that I was attracted to women (and FYI I was raised Catholic, so from my birth I was raised in a strictly heterosexual household with no gay influences). BTW, my parents do not call me an "abomination" and ACCEPT me the way I am...and they are devout Catholics.

I do not feel that God would want you to judge people for the way they were born. Do you also judge people for the color skin they have, their birth defects, etc? They had no control over these things just as gay people have no control over the fact they are gay.

Off the religious soap box...While individual states are slowly making progress in allowing gay marriage and adoptions, I think that it should be made a FEDERAL law, because if you move out of the state you married in, your "LEGAL" paper is worthless in the state you moved to if it isn't legal there. My rights I have in Oregon are meaningless in Florida.

Adam I do hope you will be able to adopt a baby someday. I know you and Jason would make awesome parents.

 

[tagalong]

Higgs - there are many Biblical views and orders from "God" in the Bible that people do not follow. Not even you. Do you not read anything except what you want to hear? Obviously not. You are purposefully IGNORING "God's view" in the OT where rape and murder is ordered/condoned - along with a long list of "rules" that I guarantee you (and all the Christians who present themselves as being so very devout) do not follow. You have also demonstrated your complete IGNORANCE of the Bible. Maybe before you start preaching fire and brimstone and pointing fingers and condemning, you should take a long hard look at yourself. Oh - and actually read the Bible instead of letting someone lead you around by your nose and ignoring all the bizarre nonsense that is in there...

I got in big trouble with the pastor once (I was about 13) when I asked him to clarify what the Bible meant when it said that David "lay with" Jonathan. And that they were closer than brothers.

Hmmmm. He got flustered. That David - what a character! He coveted his friend's wife Bathsheba... stalked her and watched her bathe... and then ordered his friend to leave for a battle where he was conveniently killed. The OT is one long, violent, soap opera...

 

[heartkranch]

Well me for one believes that the "Bible" is very out dated. People who "helped" write that book have been dead for a few hundred centuries atleast. I see the Bible as a big book full of stories, from a lot of people, a lot of opinions also. I love reading the Bible, and a lot of things I really take to heart, but some things that is too "old" for me to really take seriously.

I'm sure God will forgive me for the things I do. Following your heart, loving, and caring for other people(including yourself) I think will earn the ticket to Heaven than following a set rule of standards from a Book and judging others actions and acting "better". Our own relationship with God is our own. If its going to Church every Sunday or having him personal, to be outwardly rude to people that aren't doing what YOU are doing is something I don't think God wants.

Now I asked my fiancee about The gay marriage, he said he wouldn't care if they got the same rights as us. He just think we are going to see a lot more "Larry and Chuck" sort of thing if these rights happen all over the U.S.

 

[alongman]

Off the religious soap box...While individual states are slowly making progress in allowing gay marriage and adoptions, I think that it should be made a FEDERAL law, because if you move out of the state you married in, your "LEGAL" paper is worthless in the state you moved to if it isn't legal there. My rights I have in Oregon are meaningless in Florida.

Adam I do hope you will be able to adopt a baby someday. I know you and Jason would make awesome parents.

Linda - I completely agree. We have talked about getting married in Canada or traveling to a state that does allow gay marriage, but as soon as we return home, poof......gone.

Thanks for the confidence in us being good parents......when that day happens, I hope everyone will tell this kiddo how long and hard we FOUGHT to have them in our lives. I was in the grocery store today and saw a mother tell her child "I didn't even want you" as he was crying for his favorite cereal..........I had to turn around and walk away. Almost made me throw up. At the check-out, she was in front of me and made another comment. I volunteered to take her child.....then she shut up. BTW the kid had great taste in cereal - I bought one box for me and gave him one box as he left the store

 

[Reble]

I added this in response to another posting, but felt it deserved its' own.

Number of states in the US that allow gay marriage - 5 (not including the District of Columbia)

Number of states that all FIRST cousins to marry - 26

Does anyone wonder why there are some problems in the US?

Can see your point and my mother always said do not point your finger at some one because you have three more pointing back at you.

Wish you luck in your journey. Some interesting reading for sure.

 

[StacyRz]

Well me for one believes that the "Bible" is very out dated. People who "helped" write that book have been dead for a few hundred centuries atleast. I see the Bible as a big book full of stories, from a lot of people, a lot of opinions also. I love reading the Bible, and a lot of things I really take to heart, but some things that is too "old" for me to really take seriously.

I'm sure God will forgive me for the things I do. Following your heart, loving, and caring for other people(including yourself) I think will earn the ticket to Heaven than following a set rule of standards from a Book and judging others actions and acting "better". Our own relationship with God is our own. If its going to Church every Sunday or having him personal, to be outwardly rude to people that aren't doing what YOU are doing is something I don't think God wants.

Now I asked my fiancee about The gay marriage, he said he wouldn't care if they got the same rights as us. He just think we are going to see a lot more "Larry and Chuck" sort of thing if these rights happen all over the U.S.

This is how I feel too, regarding the Bible and my own faith. I consider myself a Christian, but I do sort through a lot of the violence and smiting in the Bible

My husband (who was raised Catholic) and I have had the gay marriage conversation more than once. He "doesn't care"... I think he should care, since we both have gay relatives. Our conversation always seems to end in what Linda spoke of "being born that way." Oooohhh do I get on my soapbox!! I have gotten so furious with him! The last time we debated it, I refused to make him dinner lol. Some people (like him) just will not believe it's how one is born until there is solid scientific evidence.

 

[alongman]

Some people (like him) just will not believe it's how one is born until there is solid scientific evidence.

There is scientific evidence..... http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1925

 

[StacyRz]

Got it saved to my favorites...Now I'm going to memorize it and lecture him LOL

Thanks for the link. I'll bet it will be an interesting read. I had watched a program some time ago, a documentary, but it ended with "some day there may be evidence" Gah!! It was frustrating because I know I'm right haha.

 

[KanoasDestiny]

I for one DO agree with gay marriage, and DON'T know how I feel towards God or religion. I have gay friends and I can understand the gay community's anger towards not having the same equal rights that we straight people have. That said, in this thread I have seen the same animosity and intolerance shown to those who believe in and try to live by God's word. It's the way they were raised, and how most of them try to live their life. Whether you want to believe it or not, the Bible clearly says homosexuality is wrong. If you don't follow the Bible, or you believe some of it is outdated, thats perfectly fine. But I'd think you'd show some respect for those who do feel it's a guideline for their salvation. Just as they should be trying to live a Christ-like life of love, not judging others, and respecting those with differing lifestyles.

Just curious but where do you all stand on a brother/sister marriage? As far as I know the Bible proved incest was ok, and it is a man and woman. How would those who are gay feel if it was your brother and sister wanting to marry, or your mother and uncle?

 

[heartkranch]

Just curious but where do you all stand on a brother/sister marriage? As far as I know the Bible proved incest was ok, and it is a man and woman. How would those who are gay feel if it was your brother and sister wanting to marry, or your mother and uncle?

I see its wrong because of what kind of defects the child would have IF they had a kid. So its not hurting only themselves but a child, and by the Bible you aren't suppose to use birth control so 19 out of 20 people they will produce a child whether healthy or with birth defects. Brothers and sisters have a special bond, but not one to be taken "to the bedroom".

 

[Ashley]

I dont get why people think that people would pick to be gay. Read Adams story, or many other gay peoples stories then say, oh yea they picked to be that way, because they wanted the struggles.

 

[alongman]

Just curious but where do you all stand on a brother/sister marriage? As far as I know the Bible proved incest was ok, and it is a man and woman. How would those who are gay feel if it was your brother and sister wanting to marry, or your mother and uncle?

To be honest - if that's what someone wants to do, then go ahead. Equal rights for everyone does not include clauses. Doesn't mean I agree with it, but I'm not hypocritical.

 

[KanoasDestiny]

Thank you Heartkranch. I saw someone post earlier that all couples who love each other should have equal rights to marriage. So I was just wondering if that only went so far, and whether people would still be denied marriage rights because of what society saw as unfit or unclean.

 

[heartkranch]

Thank you Heartkranch. I saw someone post earlier that all couples who love each other should have equal rights to marriage. So I was just wondering if that only went so far, and whether people would still be denied marriage rights because of what society saw as unfit or unclean.

I would care as long as it's not hurting innocent people. The only problem, again, I see is people taking advantage of it.

 

[susanne]

Number of states that all FIRST cousins to marry - 26

Perhaps this explains the benighted attitudes resulting in:

Number of states in the US that allow gay marriage - 5 (not including the District of Columbia)

 

[Flying minis]

Biblical view. God's view. Jesus' view. Christians are keeping gay marriage from passing into law based on what God tells us in the bible.

http://www.catholic....ts/gay-marriage

http://www.christian...n/edn-f018.html

Fine, then Christians who believe as you do (note - that is FAR from all Christians - not even all Catholics), can choose to ignore gays who are married. However, last I knew, we have a secular government, not a church sponsored one, and certainly not a Christian only one, so your arguments against legal, government sanctioned marriage for homosexuals are irrelevant.

 

[Higgs Boson]

Fine, then Christians who believe as you do (note - that is FAR from all Christians - not even all Catholics), can choose to ignore gays who are married. However, last I knew, we have a secular government, not a church sponsored one, and certainly not a Christian only one, so your arguments against legal, government sanctioned marriage for homosexuals are irrelevant.

Then exactly who do you think is voting against gay marriage initiatives if it's not the religious right?

And don't presume to call me a christian.

 

[Flying minis]

Your posts show very fundamentalist Christian beliefs, therefore the presumption that you are a Christian. If you are just trying to state the viewpoint that is held by those persons, then I have erred.

I agree it is the religious right that is opposing gay marriage initiatives, however, I think the argument against that is as I and many others have previously stated in this thread. Biblical reasons against gay marriage are irrelevant in a secular government.

Perhaps you can clarify whether you agree with what you have posted? I think that's where the confusion lies - your initial post especially would seem to indicate you stand fully aligned with the Christian right.

 

[alongman]

Biblical reasons against gay marriage are irrelevant in a secular government.

It seems that, based on this study, the majority of non-supporters are white evangelical people.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2011/08/breakdown-support-gay-marriage-religion/41964/

 

[Mona]

As a gay person myself I have no desire to ever get married..

Well, that was a sure shocker to read Ashley! You told me quite some time ago (probably close to a couple years now) that you and Lori ( and her son) went away and you and Lori got married. You even sent me wedding photos of you guys on the beach etc. I sent you a wedding gift, and now I read this?? I guess I find this all very confusing now!