Frustrating fact...

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Well, that was a sure shocker to read Ashley! You told me quite some time ago (probably close to a couple years now) that you and Lori ( and her son) went away and you and Lori got married. You even sent me wedding photos of you guys on the beach etc. I sent you a wedding gift, and now I read this?? I guess I find this all very confusing now!
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Ah let me rephrase that.......LEGALLY married. After everything in the past 5 years, Ill take the non-legal marraige I have. And you are correct we did, in Hawaii and it was 4 years ago.
 
Legal marriage means legal divorces, legal separations, etc.... as well. I completely understand that. I think if you talk to ANYONE who has been in a relationship that has "been on the rocks", they would say that it is best to not have a LEGAL anything. But, on the other hand, shouldn't marriage be a life-long committment despite the rocky times?
 
To me, a relationship doesnt need a paper to make it like a marriage. I dont go in a relationship easy and I dont go out easy. Its all the same to me, paper or not.
 
To me, a relationship doesnt need a paper to make it like a marriage. I dont go in a relationship easy and I dont go out easy. Its all the same to me, paper or not.
You're right - I don't need a paper to show I'm married, but to some people, you DO need the proof (hospitals, insurance, etc...).
 
Having just read through this entire post I must say this has turned into a lively post and I do like to see it shaken up around here at times. What I have noticed is that the majority is for gay marriage and equal rights for all. Higgs, although I don't agree with your viewpoints, I applaud you for speaking your mind and taking the heat for all the silent majority that haven't felt the need to speak up.

I have a problem with people quoting the bible word for word and taking it out of context without considering what other parts of the bible say. It is filled with so many contradictions and what is read in one section can be argued in another section. Without worrying all the time about being smitten, stoned or put unto death, I chose to live my life by the good things it says of forgiveness, loving one another as we love ourselves. My grandfather was sent as a missionary from England in 1904 and was a leading theologian of his time and is in several

Who's Who in America issues. As a child growing up with them living on our property, I never heard my grandparents say anything bad about anyone and always lived their lives from a perspective of love, caring, giving and acceptance of others. They were my role model of what a true christian is and I try to live my life as I was shown by them.

I am very much a liberal thinker and do agree that equal rights should be enjoyed by all and not select groups of people. Why can't we celebrate love and commitment without saying only men/women or whatever way someone wants to quantify it as. Why shouldn't gays have the right to adopt a child where they will be raised with loving parents. God knows there are so many heterosexuals out there raising children that have no right to be anywhere near a child. There are too many kids out there in foster homes that could benefit from loving parents if given the chance.

Jill- I firmly believe we should have a strong homeland security. My solution would be to get out of other countries where we have no business being. They don't want us there, will take our money and support then condemn us with the next breath. Fine, take all the money we are throwing away in other countries and use it here to make our country the world power it once was. Our infrastructure is falling apart while we build it up for other countries. Someone said earlier to take a month, heck, take a year or longer.

Gee, if Congress isn't fighting over what to be done in other countries, maybe it would have time to fix the things that are going wrong in our own country. Quite frankly, if other countries want to kill each other more power to them, less time to worry about bombing our country. It is time to put away partisan fighting and do the right thing to build a stronger America and take care of our own.

We don't "chose" our sexual orientation or even who we love. It comes wether we want it to or not. It is what it is. That said, I will now get of my soapbox.
 
Having just read through this entire post I must say this has turned into a lively post and I do like to see it shaken up around here at times. What I have noticed is that the majority is for gay marriage and equal rights for all. Higgs, although I don't agree with your viewpoints, I applaud you for speaking your mind and taking the heat for all the silent majority that haven't felt the need to speak up.

I have a problem with people quoting the bible word for word and taking it out of context without considering what other parts of the bible say. It is filled with so many contradictions and what is read in one section can be argued in another section. Without worrying all the time about being smitten, stoned or put unto death, I chose to live my life by the good things it says of forgiveness, loving one another as we love ourselves. My grandfather was sent as a missionary from England in 1904 and was a leading theologian of his time and is in several

Who's Who in America issues. As a child growing up with them living on our property, I never heard my grandparents say anything bad about anyone and always lived their lives from a perspective of love, caring, giving and acceptance of others. They were my role model of what a true christian is and I try to live my life as I was shown by them.

I am very much a liberal thinker and do agree that equal rights should be enjoyed by all and not select groups of people. Why can't we celebrate love and commitment without saying only men/women or whatever way someone wants to quantify it as. Why shouldn't gays have the right to adopt a child where they will be raised with loving parents. God knows there are so many heterosexuals out there raising children that have no right to be anywhere near a child. There are too many kids out there in foster homes that could benefit from loving parents if given the chance.

Jill- I firmly believe we should have a strong homeland security. My solution would be to get out of other countries where we have no business being. They don't want us there, will take our money and support then condemn us with the next breath. Fine, take all the money we are throwing away in other countries and use it here to make our country the world power it once was. Our infrastructure is falling apart while we build it up for other countries. Someone said earlier to take a month, heck, take a year or longer.

Gee, if Congress isn't fighting over what to be done in other countries, maybe it would have time to fix the things that are going wrong in our own country. Quite frankly, if other countries want to kill each other more power to them, less time to worry about bombing our country. It is time to put away partisan fighting and do the right thing to build a stronger America and take care of our own.

We don't "chose" our sexual orientation or even who we love. It comes wether we want it to or not. It is what it is. That said, I will now get of my soapbox.
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Very nicely said. I do also want to comment that I applaud Higgs for having an opinion despite the fact I don't necessarily agree with everything said.
 
I am not sure if Higgs is a new member or or an old member using a new screen name to voice some opinions (an alter - which happens on forums all the time). Not everyone names themselves after a sub-atomic particle that may or may not exist and has recently been in the news....
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I am not sure if Higgs is a new member or or an old member using a new screen name to voice some opinions (an alter - which happens on forums all the time). Not everyone names themselves after a sub-atomic particle that may or may not exist and has recently been in the news....
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Aha, an educated fellow how refreshing.
 
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I am not sure if Higgs is a new member or or an old member using a new screen name to voice some opinions (an alter - which happens on forums all the time). Not everyone names themselves after a sub-atomic particle that may or may not exist and has recently been in the news....
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Unfortunately, that is true. It is discouraging when people would go out of their way to have an opinion yet hide behind a false identity. I'm not saying this is the case here, but it does happen. It angers me even more when talking about THIS topic - people are literally beaten and scorned for saying WHO they are and WHAT they believe in, yet some people who oppose it are too cowardly to even speak their name. So for everyone who has been (and continues to be) brave enough to admit their opinions, thank you.

Interesting enough, Higgs, it seems that you DO believe that a subatomic particle that has not been proven to exist actually does, yet fail to believe that a genetic link to homosexuality does even though there is scientific proof? BTW....there are MANY educated people on this forum.
 
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Interesting enough, Higgs, it seems that you DO believe that a subatomic particle that has not been proven to exist actually does, yet fail to believe that a genetic link to homosexuality does even though there is scientific proof?.
How amusing that you can deduct so much from a user name that may be new to you and this forum but is not new to me or others. I have made no comments about a subatomic particle existing or not existing in any of my posts and please do not presume to tell me where I stand on the issue of homosexuality and it's causes.
 
How amusing that you can deduct so much from a user name that may be new to you and this forum but is not new to me or others. I have made no comments about a subatomic particle existing or not existing in any of my posts and please do not presume to tell me where I stand on the issue of homosexuality and it's causes.
The deduction about your username was not addressed by me, I just expanded upon it. Based on all of the religious quotes you have made about denouncing homosexuality and the Bible references about ones nature being changed simply by avoiding contact with males or laying down with women, you are right, I did assume you believed that it was a characteristic that was learned, not genetic.
 
I'm happy to read Ashley's explaination because I was thinking the same as Mona, but for once, didn't say something
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Lots of you know my story when it comes to H and I and getting married and why it was suddenly important to me after so many years of thinking it wasn't. We were a couple for many years before I wanted us to get married and there's lots to the story of course. If it were up to H, we'd have been married decades ago.

I will say that in addition to the legal / medical / rights scenarios you won't get snagged by once legally married, and the estate tax laws that are only available to assist married couples, I feel a level of happiness with being married that I didn't know I was missing until I finally said "I do." I think it would be good for all committed couples to have that available to them, but like I've said already ______________ (you can fill in the blank by now for sure).

For whatever it's worth, just the perspective of someone who used to think being legally married didn't matter to her and now feels it really is very meaningful after all. Marriage rights aren't my biggest fish to fry, but at least it's on my burner.
 
I'm happy to read Ashley's explaination because I was thinking the same as Mona, but for once, didn't say something
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Ditto that...but the reasoning behind her statement I figured out and understood, so didn't say anything. Glad you clarified it for all of us, tho, Ashley! lol
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I feel a level of happiness with being married that I didn't know I was missing until I finally said "I do."

I agree. When my son was near to finishing his Bach of Tech degree I asked him what his intentions were afterwards--if it included living with his girl Jenny. He said "maybe" and thought they were too young to get married. I told him I just wanted to plant seeds of ideas--and I felt since he and Jenny had been together for four years--with no break-ups and obviously very in love and committed--I felt marriage was appropriate. I said if you're old enough to live together you are old enough to get married. They were engaged within two months and married soon after.
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Mark and I just celebrated 27 years together. I think the best is yet to come.

I am a teacher and feel for kids who are from divorced families--there are 9 in my class of 23. That's unusually high. But there are kids in the school who were born to two moms--and the moms split and one (she's a teacher) is with another--and they just had twins. This is second hand info--but the boys--the first two sons-have had a hard time with questions about their father. I heard they were really struggling with issues related to who their father is.

Yes--there are many many heterosexual couples who should never be allowed to be parents--and homosexual couples who make great parents--but does anyone ever consider the challenges all this creates for the children? Being a kid...growing up..is tough enough.
 
This topic has put our plans to get all our legal papers in order in the new year. My will is outdated and some other things need to be changed/brought UTD.
 
This topic has put our plans to get all our legal papers in order in the new year. My will is outdated and some other things need to be changed/brought UTD.
Just write.... Leave it all to Adam. If you need correct spellings or numbers, just let me know
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I feel a level of happiness with being married that I didn't know I was missing until I finally said "I do."

I agree. When my son was near to finishing his Bach of Tech degree I asked him what his intentions were afterwards--if it included living with his girl Jenny. He said "maybe" and thought they were too young to get married. I told him I just wanted to plant seeds of ideas--and I felt since he and Jenny had been together for four years--with no break-ups and obviously very in love and committed--I felt marriage was appropriate. I said if you're old enough to live together you are old enough to get married. They were engaged within two months and married soon after.
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Mark and I just celebrated 27 years together. I think the best is yet to come.

I am a teacher and feel for kids who are from divorced families--there are 9 in my class of 23. That's unusually high. But there are kids in the school who were born to two moms--and the moms split and one (she's a teacher) is with another--and they just had twins. This is second hand info--but the boys--the first two sons-have had a hard time with questions about their father. I heard they were really struggling with issues related to who their father is.

Yes--there are many many heterosexual couples who should never be allowed to be parents--and homosexual couples who make great parents--but does anyone ever consider the challenges all this creates for the children? Being a kid...growing up..is tough enough.

There are 2 different scenarios that came to mind with your post. The 1st is the one you posted about where the kids were born to 2 moms. The 2nd is where the kids were born to a "straight" couple and they divorce and one starts living as gay (which happens a lot).

In the 1st case, I truly believe that the kids can be a part of their "life" from very early on...explaining where they came from in age appropriate language. If a child is aware of who he/she came to be, then I believe that they will not struggle with questions about the "absent" biological parent. They even have books on this to read to kids of same sex parents to help them understand.

In the 2nd case (which is the case with MY kids), most of the time the kids are still in touch with/have visitation with the other parent, yet live with either 2 moms or 2 dads. Again depending on the age of the kids, they should be made aware of the situation in a POSITIVE light. Or in my case (which doesnt normally happen and I don't necessarily recommend it), just let things "be" and not make an issue out of it at all. My 1st partner moved in with me and my kids when they were about 10-11 yrs old...soon after my divorce from their dad. We never said anything about my sexuality or our new living arrangements. They just lived it. By the time we really started to wonder if we should even say anything to them...they were old enough to know and it was a "non-issue". They are OK with it.

Kids are not stupid...I believe in being honest with them at all times. It gives them a sense of self and stability.

I wanted to add, too, that my ex-husband in his quest to get our son away from my living situation (but NOT our daughter
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) in a custody battle hired a social worker to do home studies...His $3000 he spent backfired when the social worker came back with a report that MY household was better suited for BOTH kids and I ended up with SOLE custody of both kids (we had joint custody before this happened)!!
 
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I feel a level of happiness with being married that I didn't know I was missing until I finally said "I do."

I agree. When my son was near to finishing his Bach of Tech degree I asked him what his intentions were afterwards--if it included living with his girl Jenny. He said "maybe" and thought they were too young to get married. I told him I just wanted to plant seeds of ideas--and I felt since he and Jenny had been together for four years--with no break-ups and obviously very in love and committed--I felt marriage was appropriate. I said if you're old enough to live together you are old enough to get married. They were engaged within two months and married soon after.
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Mark and I just celebrated 27 years together. I think the best is yet to come.

I am a teacher and feel for kids who are from divorced families--there are 9 in my class of 23. That's unusually high. But there are kids in the school who were born to two moms--and the moms split and one (she's a teacher) is with another--and they just had twins. This is second hand info--but the boys--the first two sons-have had a hard time with questions about their father. I heard they were really struggling with issues related to who their father is.

Yes--there are many many heterosexual couples who should never be allowed to be parents--and homosexual couples who make great parents--but does anyone ever consider the challenges all this creates for the children? Being a kid...growing up..is tough enough.
I know of several children being raised by either one parent or the other, or in some cases foster parents. I also know of a hand-full of children being raised by gay parents. From what I see, the children in a gay two-parent home seem to at least have stability that is not present in a home that has divorce, etc.... Yes, every child faces challenges with growing up, that's normal? But what IS normal these days? One mom, one dad; one mom, one stepdad, one dad; one mom, one stepdad, one dad, one stepmom; grandpa and grandma........I could go on forever. I think the biggest point is that the child comes from a LOVING home. If they are raised in a gay home and their friends are included in their lives, then it won't be an issue - adults seem to have the problem and MAKE it the kids problem.
 
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