founder in miniature horses

[Cara]

Can anyone tell me about founder? My mare as most of you know was moved to a new place, and was built a padock for her and other minis.Sandy(lilfoot) was doing moring stuff, and notcied china was still laying down, as was all yesterday too, i thought it was collic or somthing, so i walked her around, and i let a younger friend help me with grooming, anyway sandy went over and felt her hoofs , they were way , china is going poop and pee, and eating, sandy gave her medication to help with the pain, she says it is only a mild case, called the vet, and hopfully get a reply, we cold hosed her feet twice, and were going to 2 more time today, im so stressed, i cant belive i didnt catch this.

has anyone ever deld with this??

 

[Hosscrazy]

I think you are referring to laminitis, not founder. Laminitis is the inflammation of the laminae. Founder is secondary to laminitis and starts when the coffin bone rotates or sinks.

Once you have it under control and hopefully have her feet x-rayed, the next step is for you to find the cause of it, so that you can try to prevent it from occuring again.

Good luck,

Liz R.

 

[Cara]

lush grass. is the cause, will she every get better??

 

[Hosscrazy]

Glad you were able to isolate the cause. Here is a wonderful website authored by Katy Watts, who I consider to be one of the leading experts in this area.

http://www.safergrass.org

Liz R.

 

[scott]

She will get better if you keep her off of grass and on a dry lot for good, she is more susceptable to founder again now that she has foundered once,if you use a farrier have them check when they trim to make sure it is getting better the problem is it will not cure itself completely.

 

[Cara]

thanks everyone!!

 

[richardp]

Can anyone tell me about founder? My mare as most of you know was moved to a new place, and was built a padock for her and other minis.Sandy(lilfoot) was doing moring stuff, and notcied china was still laying down, as was all yesterday too, i thought it was collic or somthing, so i walked her around, and i let a younger friend help me with grooming, anyway sandy went over and felt her hoofs , they were way , china is going poop and pee, and eating, sandy gave her medication to help with the pain, she says it is only a mild case, called the vet, and hopfully get a reply, we cold hosed her feet twice, and were going to 2 more time today, im so stressed, i cant belive i didnt catch this.

has anyone ever deld with this??

IF YOU CUT HER OFF ALL GRAIN AND GRASS. FEED HER NOTHING BUT GRASS HAY [ALL SHE WANTS] TIE HER HER IN A MUD PUTTLE SEVERAL TIMES A DAY [WILL KEEP FEVER OUT OF FEET] KEEP HER TOES BLUNTED OFF. THIS WILL HELP

 

[minih]

I agree with everything richardp just said above, we have two mares that are founder horses...one was from rich spring grass (we did not know she had previously foundered since we just bought her) and the other one had hurt her frog on the front left foot, pretty bad, so she foundered her other front foot by over use. Both get just one kitchen cup of plain oats twice a day (just so they don't feel left out while the others eat), they are kept on dry lots and the farrier nips the toes straight across the front. Our farrier told us it is easier on the horse while walking with tender feet to be able to roll over the front feet. Both mares had some degree of rotation. Both mares are doing great, in fact the one mare with grass founder is bred with her second foal for us. I do have to mention that she got even better while pregnant and nursing the first one for us. While she is nursing she gets a full coffee can of Omalene 200, 1/2 coffee can of oats and 1/2 coffee can of beet pulp. She is an older mare and the foal really pulls from her which is good, that is the only reason we can feed her that much at that time. After we wean, the same day, she goes back to her one kitchen cup of oats. She looks amazing. It takes a long time for the hoof to grow out after a laminitis/founder episode, but hang in there they can get better. We thought our other mare would have to be put down she got so bad, but she is up and has not had sore feet now for several months.

You just have to be diligent with them when this happens and very strict about their intake. The horse we thought we would have to put down is my duaghters show horse that we had retired to stay home. This really upset us when it happened because she was so good for my daughter and showed her heart out. I hated to see her in such pain, she would literally walk with her front legs spraddled out with straigt legs. Banamine does relieve pain, but you can only give so much, buffered aspirin does help also, as I mentioned this does not clear up overnight. I'm sorry to rattle on about this, but we have gone thru so much with founder, it is hard, but we have had some good rewards.

***forgot to mention we also put both mares on thyro-L, it seems the vet told us if you have a founder horse, check the thyroid levels, a lot of times they are off.

 

[wildoak]

All good advice you've been given - important thing is to not let it happen again. We had a neghbor years ago who let a big horse founder badly on grass. Vet told him to pull her off the grass, so he locked her in a barn and fed her GRAIN....

The mare eventually had to be put down, she was so bad. They were not horse people, had just had cattle.

There are some good products on the market now to help - Lamina Saver is a good one from what I hear. We used something called Hot Hoof on a big mare recently, sure seemed to do the trick for her.

Hello Richard P, welcome to the forum. Richard has just a little experience with horses' feet.

Jan

 

[SilverDollar]

Diet is KEY as is a proper hoof trim. Katy Watts' website is an excellent resource and full of information. I just returned from two clinics this past weekend: Pete Ramey (natural barefoot trimmer--second time I've attended) and Dr. Robert Bowker, DVM, a research scientist at Michigan State University, who is doing extensive and unprecedented studies on the hoof. His focus is specifically on laminitis and navicular syndrome. One thing he recommends doing (especially for horses with these conditions) is putting an area of 4 inches deep of pea gravel (or "pea rock"--smooth stones, about 1/4 inch) where horses like to "loaf". His research has found that horses with foot soreness like to be able to sink their feet in the pea gravel at various angles to shift the weight load to different parts of their feet. They usually tip their toes downward, which releases tension on the deep digital flexor tendons and impar ligaments.

Horses CAN recover and be sound even if they have suffered laminitis, but it requires more attention to their overall management. If you go to Pete Ramey's website (www.hoofrehab.com), he has extensive information about what can be done to help these horses. I would recommend getting a blood panel, if you can, and if you have elderly horses, a Cushing's test couldn't hurt (but do not do the Dexamethasone Suppression test as this can even cause laminitis--it's a steroid.) You can also test for insulin resistance.

Good luck!

 

[barefoot]

For foundered horses I recommend for my clients the 24/7 turnout on a drylot and free choice grass hay.

When trimming the hoof please please don't 'blunt' the hoof past the water line[/b], that is before the white line. The water line is the communication for the coronary band to the ground. It tells the hoof what terrain it is on and how it is to grow. ie, I am on rocky ground need a tougher hoof.

 


If you do take that water line off the ground then the hoof grows very fast to get back there. It grows fast but not mass. It is putting all its energy into growing fast and not on the mass or denser(sp?) hoof wall. Like a tomatoe plant trying to get sunlight. Thin and stringy rather that short and fat stalks. Then in a years time it bites you in the but and you have a hoof that is breaking and chipping.

 


Now I just really started getting mini clients. I would imagine because the mini's have less weight this would be less of an issue for most. Especially pasture only guys.

 


Here is a website with a good diagram of a hoof. Click on Hoof Shape on the left index.

 

 


http://barefoothorse.com/

 

[faithfarm]

The most important thing is to stop the cause. Dry lot and grass hay and a low starch grain. The horse still needs the nutrients just not the sugars which comes from grass and most grains. I have been feeding Safe Choice from Nutrena with excellent results. One mare that was so bad that my wife wanted to put her down is doing great, had a foal this year and is back in foal for next year.

 

[firecoach]

I have had quite a bit of experience with this with my miniature. I originally took him to WSU, Washington State University Vet School for the original diagnosis. Their farrier took his toes way back almost to blood. He was so sore, but that is what the experienced Vets said to do.

I have since learned different. I agree with going to Pete Ramey's website as he helped my guy get back to being healthy. You will need to find a good barefoot trimmer who knows what they are doing. I went through 4 different farriers before I found Bobbi Jo. For the first time in 3 years, my guys feet are looking good and he is pain free. If you can not find one let me know, as I am on a barefoot list and can find one for you. What is also recommended is boots, or for temporary relief, cut a pad out of thick rubber matting and duct tape it to her feet.

I now have pea gravel and I must say that it works wonders on all the hooves, I will never be without it.

Yes, she will get better, but it will take some work and research on what works for her. My quest to get my guy better included all these remedies for laminitis, but nothing worked to get him really better. What finally worked was after having the blood test to see if he was Insulin Resistant, which he was, I took him off all supplements, only give him collodial minerals, freshly ground flax seed, with a handful of timothy hay pellets in a bucket. His grass hay is soaked for 30 minutes a day. He also has my barefoot trimmer come out every 4 weeks. He is now doing awesome!!