Few-Spot Appaloosa

Miniature Horse Talk Forums

Help Support Miniature Horse Talk Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Clarks Ltd Edition

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2005
Messages
50
Reaction score
0
Can a few-spot Appaloosa be any base color? - Or only Grey?

In other words can you have a few-spot buckskin? Sorrell? Blue Roan? etc.
default_unsure.png
:

Also - does the Sire and Dam always have to be leopards to get a few-spot??

Thanks
 
A Few-Spot can be any base color......and you don't have to have 2 leopards to get a few spot. But both parents must be Appy. Hope that helps :bgrin
 
Hello:

Few Spots can be in any base color. Both parents have to be appaloosa, but don't necessarily need to be leopards to produce one.

Dawn :saludando:
 
Yes, you can have any base colour, but the duns, buckskins, true-roans, and some others can be very difficult to know. For example, sometimes it takes a few dun foals out of non-dun mates, to show that the fewspot is in fact a dun. If it's a gelding...oh well...you might never know.
default_wink.png
:

They actually aren't grey, (unless there there is a grey parent, and then there could be) but white. They are born white, with either no spots, or very few, sometimes with a bit of colour around the flanks, elbows, and lower legs.

To get a true few spot, both paprents must be appy, one of them, I am pretty sure, must be a leopard.
 
Yes in my research and numerous references to the study by Gene Carr and Robert A. Lapp - "Homozygous Appaloosa Coat Patterns" (http://www.equinecolor.com/articles/article1.html) they specifically noted that:

"The few spot is produced only from an Appaloosa to Appaloosa breeding where as at least one parent is a leopard."

This article I refer back to ALL the time and i will read, and re-read just for the love of it =) My whole life is appies now, that article is my bible lol!
 
Yes, the only way to get a Few-Spot Appaloosa is from two Appaloosa parents... but keep in mind that while you are mentioning that the horse can be ANY base color, a Few-Spot horse is NOT a dark base color with a few WHITE spots... it is the REVERSE of the color, dark color on white...
default_wink.png
: the horse will exhibit the classic varnish color through their heads... (dark ears, dark bars down the face) sometimes will show dark markings on the legs and occasionally a dark mane and tail... ( and even though the legs and mane/tail may APPEAR to be white, there will usually be a varnish dark base color appearing somewhere) the few spots that the horse has will usually show around the shoulder area and occasionally one or two in the belly and/or flank area...

I raise both large and small appaloosas ( and have for over 30 years...) and am very familiar with both the Gene Carr/Robert Lapp works on color genetics, as well as Barbara Naviaux's book on color patterns.. (several of my horses appear in her book...
default_smile.png
) and it continues to concern me very much when I see dark horses with a few white spots advertised as "few spots".. because they are not..
default_sad.png
I have been very fortunate to have raised quite a few "few spot" babies over the year, (both large and small) ... and oddly enough, the ones that I had were not all by a leopard parent... many were out of classic varnish roan type horses that carried heavy characteristics.. (which I ALWAYS look for when selecting my appaloosa breeding stock..) and in fact, the Aphc (Appaloosa Horse Club) does not recognize the term "Leopard" as a recognized color pattern anymore... they will refer to the horse by the base color.. (ie: Bay Roan, Chestnut Roan..etc..) with spotting. and even though Gene Carr refers to the need to have one "Leopard" parent, I still feel VERY strongly that the fewspot genetic is a highly developed Appaloosa roaning gene... and after having 90% of my few spot babies coming from one or both Varnished Roan parents I think that my theory is a pretty sound one... LOL!

Here is a good example of a classic "Few spot" pattern: the horse is "Drea Sunspots Fire IM" owned by Deckers Red Eagle Appaloosas..

DREA%20SUNSPOT%20FIRE%20IM%20R.jpg


Thank you to Clarks Ltd Edition for bringing this thread up.... this is a subject very near and dear to my heart...

Suzy Hooper

Show Horses by Suzy

Fresno, CA
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yep, and another note, few-spots are BORN fewspot!

They do not turn it later on, if they get all white with age, I would highly suspect grey.
 
Linda I know that is the theory but I have to disagree.

One thing that has always bothered me about "fewspots" is the fact that there are so few of them, proven to be Homozygous. If you cross Palomino X Palomino you get 50% chance of Cremello (H/Z) so why, when you cross (for example) leopard to leopard do you not get 50% fewspot (H/Z)???

The only two proven by breeding fewspots I have personal experience of were both born solid- one black one sorrel, BUT weirdly, (Remember we had little idea what we were dealing with then so this was really weird) within two days the coat colour had completely faded and was only present in the mane and tail and flanks - like varnish as stated above.

The black faded to white with blue eyes and characteristics, the sorrel faded to white with a peachy overtone and pale eyes - loads of characteristics.

I think the main problem with the term Leopard is that very few people can identify the difference between a True Leopard- born spotted with a white base and no body colour- and a "Near Leopard" which has body colour and spots in a leopard pattern.

I am not sure I count anything except white base with spots as True Leopard- I have always described my Palomino base stallion as a Near Leopard as he did not get his spots until he was two years old, and was a Palamino base.

Appy is always going to be a very tricky genetic- I think a whole new can of worms is going to be opened when we can test the various "spotting" patterns.
default_yes.gif
:
 
Rabbitzfizz - you are EXACTLY right with the whole can of worms thing - but honestly, I can't wait!! Appaloosa's are my true passion and i'm constantly learning new things about their color patterns. A lot of it is still confusing but then I just go ask Dr. Shiela Archer at The Appaloosa Project - she's working to create the test for testing homozygous appaloosa patterns - she sets me straight a lot lol but I love to learn!

"I think the main problem with the term Leopard is that very few people can identify the difference between a True Leopard- born spotted with a white base and no body colour- and a "Near Leopard" which has body colour and spots in a leopard pattern.

I am not sure I count anything except white base with spots as True Leopard- I have always described my Palomino base stallion as a Near Leopard as he did not get his spots until he was two years old, and was a Palamino base."

Shiela Archer has an awesome chart set up based on her years of studies - with this chart you can compare your horse and see which color pattern they really are. This chart is an awesome way of figuring out if you have a "True Leopard" or a "Near Leopard" -

http://f4.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/0Jw_RCJd16fC1...rnGuide.pg1.JPG

http://f5.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/0Jw_RLl08ZPC1...rnGuide.pg2.JPG

http://f6.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/0Jw_RCNmxTnC1...rnGuide.pg3.JPG

these three pages I refer back to a LOT and it helps to be honest with yourself when you look at these charts =)

"The only two proven by breeding fewspots I have personal experience of were both born solid- one black one sorrel, BUT weirdly, (Remember we had little idea what we were dealing with then so this was really weird) within two days the coat colour had completely faded and was only present in the mane and tail and flanks - like varnish as stated above.

The black faded to white with blue eyes and characteristics, the sorrel faded to white with a peachy overtone and pale eyes - loads of characteristics."

This is another of my favorite subjects with appies - we just had this topic not too long ago, people saying a foal born solid and later coloring out cannot be homozygous and must carry the grey/roan gene (not appy roan).....I had to stop talking in that discussion because SO many people were set on their ways of thinking that was true - i'd rather believe Mr. Carr and Mr. Lapp's paragraph as follows:

"Homozygozity does not require 100 percent color or characteristics at birth. Anywhere from 5-10 percent of foals may be born non-characteristic or with characteristics only, but will develop Appaloosa characteristics at a later age."

default_yes.gif
:

Suzy - you are totally not alone when it comes to how frustrating it is to see a solid base colored horse, with a few white spots on them, called "few spots". Those horses are sold to people who are just entering the appy world and don't know much more than that few spots are supposed to reproduce lots of appy color and characteristics. I really just want to smack those people upside the head and ask them what the heck they think they're doing selling their horse as a few spot!! (ok ok, no I don't want to start any wars here! I wouldn't really do that =) Great photo of the few spot by the way - another thing to look for as a homozygous characteristic are the "lightning streaks" and "triangles" like your photo'd foal has - the triangle of color above each hoof has been studied and noted as a homozygous characteristic. Great foal!

Ok I think I blabbed enough!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Suzy - you are totally not alone when it comes to how frustrating it is to see a solid base colored horse, with a few white spots on them, called "few spots". Those horses are sold to people who are just entering the appy world and don't know much more than that few spots are supposed to reproduce lots of appy color and characteristics. I really just want to smack those people upside the head and ask them what the heck they think they're doing selling their horse as a few spot!! (ok ok, no I don't want to start any wars here! I wouldn't really do that =) Great photo of the few spot by the way - another thing to look for as a homozygous characteristic are the "lightning streaks" and "triangles" like your photo'd foal has - the triangle of color above each hoof has been studied and noted as a homozygous characteristic. Great foal!
Thanks, this subject is really the only one that I have ever responded to in depth on the Forum.. and I did so because I really don't feel that anyone in the Miniature industry deliberately misleads folks on whether or not they have a fewspot, I truly feel that it is a lack of education. I posted because I want to help people understand what is correct and what is not... and I base the information that I have on the breed from breeding them, like I said before, for over 30 years...
default_yes.gif
:

Rabbitzfizz; You bring up a good point on your resulting foals from breeding fewspots.. quite a few ARE born solid with characteristics, then start to color almost immediately.. (within the first week) leading me back to believe that the gene that makes up the Fewspot genetic is itself is a strongly developed roan gene.. and often the Leopards do not carry this as a strong part of their genetic makeup... (how many of us have had the completely solid foal when breeding Leopard to Leopard...?
default_rolleyes.gif
: ) That is why I almost NEVER look at the body color when selecting my breeding individuals, but will ALWAYS look for the characteristics.. (mottled skin, sclera, strongly striped feet on SOLID legs...) and also their background. It is often SO hard to have what I call a "clear" appaloosa program in the miniature industry.. due to the Pintaloosa genetic that is often present in the gene pool even if the horse itself does not carry excessive white.. (not saying that there is anything wrong with that.. just that it does make it difficult to predict what you will get when breeding these individuals...
default_yes.gif
: )

Anyway, great thread with some great information and insight from all of you... and best of luck in raising your spotted "kids"...
default_wub.png
:

Suzy Hooper

Show Horses by Suzy

Fresno, CA
 
I will admit I am not really up on my appy patterns however I do have a TRUE palomino few spot. She has had 2 foals since she has been here bred to a pinto. Both are black and white both appeared to be pintos at birth the only exception is that the colt had one tiny spot a pea sized white spot inside a black marking but lets be honest that could be a pinto marking.Oh they both had striped hooves again could be a pinto thing ? and had sclerea(sp)

However, by the time both were yearlings.. they had tons of mottling and the yearling filly has so much you can now see her mottling from across the field.(on both ends :eek: ) In fact they both lost some of the dark pigment on there muzzles and are now very light skinned there. There is no mistaking both of these foals are pintaloosas. For whatever it is worth this sire has only had 3 foals that werent pinto so he does tend to throw that alot. I am looking forward to breeding this mare to my palomino stallion and hoping for a loud palomino appy. (I used to own a palomino leopard appy son of this mare)
 

Latest posts

Back
Top