Feeding nonshow horses_how?

[charli]

Well there has been alot of talk about protein and bellies, etc . I do not have any show horses (yet) but we do have 6 minis that we love and want to be as healthy as possible. 3 of the came to us very overweight as they were kept on very green pastures. We have since leaned them up to normal mini size but I want to make sure we are feeding them properly. It seems that I need a lot more info on what to feed, how much of it, and how often.

If someone just has a general diet plan for boodmares, yearlings, and stallions that would be helpful.

Thanks

 

[AnnaC]

I think the most important thing to remember with good doers, non working horses, pasture pets/fun companions etc., is that they all require vitamins and minerals. These animals are not being fed (nor do they need) the full recommended amount of concentrated food, and therefore should have free access to salt and vit/mineral supplements.

The seond most important thing, in my opinion, is to give animals as much space as you can, It is natural for them to roam and have room to run and play and a lot of problems can be kept to a minimum by giving as 'natural' a lifestyle as possible.

Here we are lucky to have enough land, plus loads of grass (old pasture so full of natural herbs as well as different grasses) so all my females live out all year round. They are fat, sassy and full of fun and even the oldest of them (26) can be found joining in the regular race and chase games that seem to take place daily! During the winter months they have free choice large round bales of hay put out to suppliment the grass. Of course any mares that are in foal do come in to the barn at nights before and for a month after foaling, when they are fed ad lib hay plus a concentrated balancer.

The stallions are stabled with around 4/5 hours outside daily on grass. These boys are fed more or less ad lib hay while stabled plus around 2 to 3 lbs of a high fibre, 14% protein nut, this seems to keep them all at what I call a good weight - some would call them 'tubby', but I dont like 'lean' horses!

During the breeding season the 'boys' have their feeds adjusted accordingly. The ad lib hay is still fed but the concentrate goes up to around 8 lbs per day plus a balancer and this is again adjusted according to individual needs, because they are either being used to cover mares or/and are running the fences (shedding those pounds and getting fitter and fitter LOL)

In their natural state horses, like a lot of grazing animals, will put on weight throughout the summer months, building themselves up for the lean winter months, so if your horses are carrying a little too much weight going into the winter, I wouldn't worry. It is far easier to keep them looking good through the winter if they look good going into it, than it is to try to make up weight again in the cold months.

So with your minis I would allow access to as much space as you can give them, grass or ad lib hay (spread around their living area to encourage natural movement and brousing, plus a small amount of concentrate food as necessary - and dont forget those vitamins and minerals!

 

[JMS Miniatures]

My advice is you really don't need grain to keep your horses healthy. What horses need is forage. Its best if you have pasture you can just let them loose and let the enjoy themselves. Cause yes grazing is important. BUT, if your horses are easy keepers like mine are and it sounds like they may I would monitor their diet and keep them on hay. Just some time of low fat grass hay.

You also would need to give them a vitamin and minerial block also a salt block.

My show horses who get a break over the winter this is what I'm going to be doing for them til Spring time they get back on show conditioning and will feed grain again.

http://www.horse.purinamills.com/products/naturesessentials/ECMD2-0032706.aspx

 

[Matt73]

I have a really simple feed plan that works amazingly well for my girls (and now colt).

I use Buckeye Gro 'n Win; it's a ration balancer, so you feed very little of it; it's meant to compliment what forage your horses are on. My mare that is lactating pretty much gets all the grass hay she wants (and what little grass there is in their paddock) and 1lb. of Gro 'n Win/day (1/2 am and 1/2 at dins). It's 32% protein. My 2 year old gets half that in Gro 'n Win and lots of grass hay. My almost 3 month old colt gets Buckeye Foal Starter (14% protein, milk-based pellet); pretty much all he wants in the morning and at night and all the hay he wants. He will get Gro 'n Win once he is weaned (at around 4 months old).

All of my guys have a nice topline, a nice layer of fat over their ribs (but you can still feel them without too much effort), and a gorgeous shine to them. They are energetic, healthy, and happy

I haven't changed the way I've fed in 6 years of owning minis and have had 3 healthy foals and no feed-related health problems

 

[kaykay]

My advice is you really don't need grain to keep your horses healthy

I disagree when it comes to young horses. I do agree forage first, then feed. I dont care how much pasture they are on they will get thin if they are not fed a good grain. Seen it way too many times, even farms with 100 acres. It is just not enough to meet the needs of a young growing horse.

A mature horse that is not breeding or working just needs good hay, grass and minerals.

 

[~Lisa~]

I have to disagree with the assumption that if a horse is not working nor showing they do not need much and need no grain.

Like people every horse is different. They all have different metabolisms and need different thinks to maintain a healthy weight

I have some minis that survive on very little feed and look a bit pudgy. I have others that eat alot of grain on top of their daily hay and without it they would be way to thin. Let the way your horses look be a huge guide to any changes you decide to make in their feed program

 

[kaykay]

I do agree with you there lisa. There is no one size fits all feeding for horses. You have to look at each horse.

 

[wingnut]

I show one horse right now and hope to show between two and three next year (depending on how training for driving and hunter/jumper/obstacle goes). My horses are nice but we're not competing in the same realm as those who show at the national shows.

With that said, I still give grain to my horses. All but one is on Strategy. Based on the miniature feed guide I rec'd from my Purina rep, I feed the 1/4 lb 2x a day. Right now, they spend most of their time on a dry lot because they will turn our small pasture into a dry lot due to lack of rain if we were to leave them on all the time. So, I'm feeding them 1% of their body weight in hay. For my 6 that comes out to 12-15lbs a day. My hard keeper needs more and I'm still trying to work a system out so that she gets more, without putting out too much for the others.

I recently had them weighed. I have been feeding a grass/alfalfa mix hay since last fall. 4 of the 6 are at the upper most limit of where I'd like to seem them weight wise, so today, I purchased some straight grass hay for these guys. Despite my concerns about their weight, I'm trying to remain objective. I've definitely seen much fatter horses. No one has a "hay belly".

All could use more exercise. We're slow working our way toward that goal. For this reason, I don't plan to make any other changes in their feeding. If I don't see some progress with increased exercise, I'll revisit the issue.

Finally, during the winter, they get free choice alfalfa/grass mix hay along with their grain.

FYI: Mine are all mares. 4 two year olds, 1 three yr old and one 13 yr old.

 

[charli]

Thank you for all of your answers. I am still somewhat confused and need to reread and figure out where to start. it sure would be nice to be able to just follow the same regimen for all of them but that is not going to happen. I have 3 mare (2 that we are trying to breed) a yearling gelding and a stallion at my moms farm. We do not have a lot of pasture and so they are always on a dry lot. We try to move them around the yard to get some grass but they really don't get a lot. We feed an alfalfa mix hay (about 50/50) and a very small amount of grain. We had been told (by who we bought 3 of ours from) that they didn't need a lot of feed and our vet has told us that minis live off 'air'. So we feed about 2 flakes of hay to a pen with 4 in it 2x a day. We also feed about 1/2# Dumor Horse feed 14% protein to them 2x day. Since starting reading all of this I have realized that we did not give our little guy enough protein or feed by only giving him hay 2x day. He did have the 'gut' and we just thought is was cute. Vet never said a thing about it when I asked.

This spring (since learning all of this from marestare) we have increased his feed and made it easier for him to eat without pressure from the mares but he still seems a bit thin...not in the belly but in his rear--not round but sort of angular. Any advise on how to fix this for him?

Also my stallion (not breeding ) gets a flake of hay 2x day plus the same feed as the others. He was looking good but recently I think he has lost weight. He has a prominent backbone and seems bony in the butt. Could something be wrong and I need a vet or does he just need more feed?

They have salt blocks but tend to ignore them. I did add a mineral/fly block to them 2 wks ago and they ate it all up. I plan to stop and get more tomorrow to add to all the paddocks.

Another concern of mine now is that they really don't have that much space. How bad is it for them to be kept in a confined area? Should I consider moving them elsewhere?

Thanks

 

[Marty]

Its all complicated sometimes until you get a handle on it. Then it should get easier for you. Sometimes you can have a herd where you can feed the same thing all across the board. In a perfect world that would be fine but other times, that doesn't work so well and you need to extend the buffet.

I hate to tell you this but a lot of vets don't have a clue as to what miniature horses need in the way of nutrition. They usually see a fat pony and assume he is getting what he needs nutritionally.

Forage is the basis of my feed program. Grass and quality hay. Then I build from that. I do moniter the grass because our pastures are lush and I don't want anyone to founder. I have one mare that tends to be a pig and I have to watch her intake of grass like a hawk. But I am generous with the hay around here.

First off you just got my full attention because you said you were trying to breed your mares to a stallion that sounds like he is in very serious condition. A prominant back bone and a boney rear end tells me he is in trouble. Without seeing him, from your description this sounds like he has a low body score and he needs groceries and a place to eat alone where he is not stressed. I certainly would not be breeding him at this time.

If I have this correct, you are feeding 2 flakes of hay twice a day to share between 4 horses? Ok here's the thing: #1. That is not nearly enough roughage #2. If you are feeding 4 horses together in a pen they are eating under stress most likely and that is not a good thing. They should all have a separate place designated to eat in peace.

Now another thing is you are feeding you think 1/2 pound of Dumor feed 14% correct? First thing I would do is have you buy a little postage scale at Walmart in the kitchen section and weigh it. When I attempt to guesstimate the weight of feed, I always find that I am so way off it isn't even close to what I thought I had there. So doing that you would get a better handle on it. Then again, don't feed together or if you do, be sure you are standing there running interference so everyone gets what they should get in proper amounts.

What are you de-worming with and when was the last time you did?

As far as having enough room to support the 5 horses, well what kind of area are you talking about? Confining horses in a too small area is not a good thing so about how big of a place are they in? You don't need a huge farm but with some good horsekeeping you should be able to manage the 5 horses in decent size fields or paddocks. Do they have access to a barn/ shelter?

Last but not least I think you should call an immediate halt to any kind of breeding until you get things under control. For instance if you are concerend you do not have enough space right now, you would not want to be adding two more foals in a cramped area.

Try not to worry. Take one step at a time and improvements should come.

Good luck and best wishes to you.

 

[ohmt]

I have to agree with Marty that 2 flakes twice a day is definitely not enough for 4 horses. I have 40 minis and the majority of them do not get fat off air. I feed a lot and always try to feed by the individual. Assess each horse and see who needs more of what. My growing horses (foals-2 years) are fed free choice alfalfa/grass hay (make sure your hay is not too mature or stemmy and nice and green and leafy) along with a 16% protein feed. I tried different feeding programs for years and that's what I found worked best for me. Find what works best for you as there are many different ways to have a healthy happy horse. My breeding stallions get alfalfa/grass hay mix as well along with strategy. I also tried straight grass hay with enrich 32 and that worked well but I have a problem finding any decent grass hay around here so switched. My mares are on pasture all summer with free access to hay (which they never touch) and get enrich 32 with oats and that works great. Once the grass starts dying off I give them free choice alfalfa/grass mix with salt and mineral blocks. If they are bred I bring them up at day 250 or so and feed alfalfa/grass mix along with omelene 300 and they get that until their foals are weaned.

I know, a lot of information. Look at each horse and determine who needs a change. Hip and back bones visible with a big belly means more protein is needed (usually). If they're still not looking how I think they should after that I add rice bran oil (usually only needed for older horses and breeding stallions). I would have a vet look at your stallion and make sure he doesn't have anything else going on-make sure the vet checks his teeth.

In the meantime, don't be so stingy with hay and grain, but make increases gradual

Remember, all horses need 1-2% of their body weight in food each day. Most of my adult minis weigh 200-300 lbs.

 

[Minimor]

Also my stallion (not breeding ) gets a flake of hay 2x day plus the same feed as the others. He was looking good but recently I think he has lost weight. He has a prominent backbone and seems bony in the butt. Could something be wrong and I need a vet or does he just need more feed?

I would expect that he just needs more feed--definitely more hay and possibly more grain. I don't know what size your bales are or just what 'a flake' amounts to. Here our bales run 50-70 pounds depending which hay supplier makes them, so a flake doesn't amount to much. We would give each horse 2 or 3 flakes per feeding. People say to feed 1.5 to 2.5% of the horse's body weight, but when it comes to hay ours generally end up getting more than that. Since your stallion is thin--obvious backbone--I would increase grain as well, or give him something with more protein/fat....here our grain ration consists of mostly oats. All oats in most cases, but if there's a horse that needs to put on weight we do feed a 14% pelleted feed mixed half & half with the oats. When we grain--and not all of our horses do get grain--each horse usually gets 1-2 litres 2x a day. It may seem like a lot of grain for a mini but since ours also get a generous amount of hay they don't have issues with ulcers or colic. I have never believed in feeding large amounts of grain and small amounts of hay--the horse's GI system is designed for forage and not so much grain.

 

[charli]

Again thank you so much for all of the info. I do need to alter my original menu though,,,it felt like I was typing a story and I quit but realized that I left some things out. The stallion that is starting to look 'wrong' is the same one I posted on before about not being able to breed. I had him checked at the vet and he got a clean bill of health. I brought him home and then one of our mares. Put her in with him and they did what is expected for about 2 weeks and then we took her out because she seemed to want back with the others. Since then I think he has lost weight. The 2 horse paddocks are right next to each other so he isn't far from them but he is alone in a paddock so he has no stress for his food.

When I started posting and asking questions I had already decided to increase the feed and so had began to give him 1/2# feed (I did measure it on a scale ; 14% protein Dumor and we started to add oil to the feed). We also got some great, fresh hay that is a mixture of alfalfa and grass that they seem to love! Since reading more of the posts on feed, etc. I have purchased a protein supplement to try and increase the protein they are getting to around 20% ( I had read that on here). But he is NOW looking very lean....seems to have happended very fast. The only thing we changed was that we actually went into his pen and cut down ALL the weeds and cleaned it up. He is due for a worming this month but I have been keeping them on a 2 month schedule. I had been rotating between the products available but the last worming was Ivermectin Gold. (Since this I have read that some of you feel this is not safe-why?) I am curious about his teeth...could they be causing his sudden loss of wt? or something else? I was thinking that he just wants to be in the same pen as the others but I have a yearling gelding and I don't want them to fight-maybe they won't? My stallion is very m ild mannered but still a stud.

The others that are in the same paddack do eat hay together but we do make about 6-8 piles of hay so that they can each get their own. I will have to figure out a way for them to eat this without stress. When they are grained, they are all hooked up to the gate by a lead and have their own bucket so they get it all and no fighting. I will increase the hay that is given! My mares look really good and are NOT getting 1/2# of feed (2x/day) at this time because they have a tendency to get heavy. They look really good except....a slight backbone on my oldest mare. She does have teeth issues but the vet advised me to wait until we determine if she is in foal and then worry about it. She has a tendency to get FAT (was about 100 # overweight when I got her) but also has a case of hypothyroidism that she is medicated for.

Oh, one paddock has many trees for shade and we keep calf huts in the pens for shelter. They other doesn't have trees but we have set up a tarped area for shade and they also have calf huts for protection from the elements. We do stall them in the winter when it is too cold or the snow is too deep for them but usually short term as we don't have enough stalls yet (my hubby says he will build me more this winter) .

Please keep giving me ideas on the best way to feed and why my stallion may be declining. I appreciate all that you have to offer in the way of info.Thanks

 

[charli]

Thought some pics might help all of you understand what I am seeing....

This is the stallion that I am concerned about.



And here is the yearling that I am concerned about...I need to make sure he gets what he needs. Does he look ok to you guys?

]

Thank you for everything

 

[Marty]

It does sound to me like you are covering your bases very well indeed. Ok this is going to sound convoluted. As far as your stallion, perhaps he is stressing because you took the mare away, which is pretty normal. Some pace and pace and run themselves ragged and its very difficult to keep weight on them. If you are having horrible heat, that is adding to the problem a lot. Can he see the mares ok from where he is? That should keep him happy. Perhaps he needs a lot of one on one with you just taking him out, bathing him, playing with him by himself.....like a change of routine. Maybe you can bring him to your barn daily and shove hay in front of him while you fuss with him. Another thing maybe is if you could try him on grass hay with no alfalfa. That may be too "hot" on him. Don't get me wrong, I like alfalfa but process of elimination it may be the wrong hay for him? How about changing over his grain to something else?

I also tried some Dumor feed for a short time. My horses did not do well from it and all lost weight.For example I took the tag off of Dumor Senior Feed and then the tag from Purina Senior feed and it was so evident that Dumor was lacking quite a bit ingredients when compared to Dumor. Back to Purina for me and I also like some Nutrena products too.

Last but not least, I would buy a thingy of Safeguard de-womer and give it to him 5 days in a row. It cannot hurt and might very well help.

There were rumors about Zimecterin Gold but I always use it with no problems.

 

[Marty]

I just saw the pictures! They don't look bad!!!!! Geesh!

 

[ohmt]

Not sure when the pictures were taken, but they do look pretty good! It looks like they could benefit from just a little bit more protein (be careful not to overdo it either. Too much protein has many health risks as well.) but other than that they look healthy. I know it's a little bit difficult to tell exactly what their condition is from pictures though so you should do what you feel is best.

I agree with Marty that the stallion could be stressing with having his mare taken away. I hand breed but leave one mare with my stallions spring-fall and then I either put them together or put them with gelding or put them with my weanling/yearling colts so they always have company. They get 'lonely' by themselves.

Teeth problems can also cause a dramatic weight change as well many other underlying problems. I would have a vet check him out just in case.

Good luck!

 

[charli]

Thank you Marty and everyone else! I have looked at other feeds but am never sure of what to get and when my husband goes to TSC he always comes home with the SALE bags. We are thinking of ordering our feed from a feed mill to get exactly what we want in it. Any experience? The stallion can see and nose touch the mares....but it has been extremely HOT here and humid. I will check his teeth and see if anything is up and try to give him a little more one on one attention. He definitely could benefit from another clipping and bath. If you look at the pics, you can slightly see the back bone ridge and the where he is walking towards the camera his hip bones look prominent to me...am I just seeing things? The yearling does look ok but his butt has a flat spot on top and from the pics I see on here most have a nice rounded rump--is this just the way he is or is he lacking??

I will experiement with everything you have shared. I still have one question- if I worm him with safeguard for 5 days in a row, what dose do I use?

Thanks again