Do I have sucker written on my forehead?

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Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2002
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[SIZE=14pt]Just wanted to get this off my chest! Back in Jan. of 05 we purchased 2 bred mares from a reputable breeder. Both were vet checked in foal, according to the breeder for an April 05 baby! Well they both started showing to our stallions in March. So we called our vet and she ultra sounded them and they were both open! No biggie, we have 4 stallions! One of the mares was sold to a friend as an open mare! The other we decided to keep and breed![/SIZE]

She cycled and we bred her, 21 days later she cycled again so we bred her again! Then 65 days from the last breeding we had her and all our mares ultra sounded to see who's in foal. Well, this little mare was open again but, my vet says, "I would like a second opinion on this little mare because I don't like what I see". So we take her in to the hospital and have 4 vet present for the Exam! I said, what's the problem! Well turns out that when my vet did a vaginal exam, this little mare has a closed hyman!! We were told she lost her first baby because it didn't get out of the sac! Well, I get a hold of the breeder and he says her first foal was a bad dystocia and the baby was cut out piece by piece at the Univ. of -- Then he says she was vet checked to be sound to breed and he bred her! He then tells me she was ultra sounded in foal in Aug. of 04. He has no vet records to support his claim, but we did get the report from the first birth from the Univ. of --. My vet and 4 other vets, one who is a reproductive specialist say there's no way this little mare was ever in foal after what she went through! All the breeder will say is "Well I guess I owe you a breeding!" My reason for writing this is to warn people in business to be very careful who you deal with! I won't name this breeder on a public forum, but if anyone wants to know who it is just send me a PM or e-mail and I'll be happy to tell you!

Not good. Did they have a big herd so they maybe could have gotten their horses mixed up? Probably not. I like to believe most people are honest but so often i am proved wrong. Gosh what a mess for you to have to deal with.
That's terrible! That poor mare, ad poor you!
You know Bill, I think I was happier in the miniature horse world before I got to know so many people through the Web and National Shows. In my little world (CA at the time) I had my beautiful minis, showed locally, and was content. I have learned that many ot the biggest farms/best known names have horrible ethics (saw several shining cases of this at "05 Nationals). Some of them even drop by here on a regular basis.

I don't know how you can find this out in advance. I too am wide open to be suckered if I go by their beautiful ads, slick websites, and charming posts. I'm so sorry this happened.
That's AWFUL

They should be reported to the AMHA !!!
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Sorry this has happened to you Bill, but nothing surprises me. We just keep adding names to the long list of disreputable people out there.

If I bought a bred mare I would have a pre-purchase exam done. And I would speak directly to the vet. Yes, it would be at my expense but altleast there are no surprises. And yes, the mare could still lose her foal but atleast the truth was told so far as the pregnancy goes. Sorry to sound so cynical but the rest of the guarantees you get................most of them are not worth the paper they are printed on. These dishonest breeders know that it will cost you more money to come after them legally then the horse is worth.

I too am wide open to be suckered if I go by their beautiful ads, slick websites, and charming posts.
Dr. Pam, you are SO right. Talking to some of these people, sugar couldn't melt faster. Buyers your homework. There are really good and honest people out there.
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I read your post and I'm surprised that people can blatantly lie like that. Guess I live in my own little world.

I'm a little confused about what much was the actual truth?
Yes we discovered about mini people and how many fairy tales can come out of them while buying stallions last year. Thank goodness for the net or l'd still be thinking l was the only one in the world with the word sucker on my forehead. But just to be sure l better go have a look anyway.
It's just amazing how often this can and will happen.

I know it may not make you feel any better, but the times I was a sucker, it came back to bite them in the butt. I hope they have THEIRS covered.
Sorry this happened to you. It truly is a live and learn world out there. I have learned the hard way also to do my research, well before committing to any horse. Another thing to consider is to get a written "breeding sound guarentee", on any mare you buy. Of course this is still no guarentee, but may make many of the crooked sellers think twice of the possible repercussions.., and back out.
I never in my life as I swear to you Bill been through so much garbage and upset and underhandedness and utter nonsense over buying a horse as I have been through buying some of my minis. Some people have little morals and no conscience. I been hurt badly too. My husband really wants to get their farm prefix removed from our horses if we could someday. He cringed when I put their registration names on their stall name plaques and burned them in the fire and told me to make new ones and use their barn names only.

It really stinks Bill and I am very sorry about this. I'm willing to bet that you also adore this horse too.

In all fairness this has not left a bad taste in my mouth because there are good people out there and lots of them who really try hard to make wrong things go right. I have had people here bend over backwards for me to make it possible for me to buy a horse easily and honestly. We're all only human and most of us really do the best we can. Heck if someone wants to buy a horse from me I'll disclose everything including how many turds in a pile.
I know how disappointed you are Bill & Wannalynn but don't loose the faith. Maybe us little Tennessee farms will prevail someday. Maybe we are small and simple but atleast we are open for inspection with nothing to hide and we know how to make ice tea the right way.
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I am sorry.... Looks like your horse will end up being a pet like ours was.......... Shame to all who intentionally lie, mislead, or hold back important information on a horse that is for sale................ As I say "If you value money above friendship, what will you have left if you go bankrupt"
Being a BIG breeder doesn't always mean BEST..... Bill, I hope this doesn't sour you to the rest of the little apples in the barrel....if you know what I mean.....

Unfortunately, this kind of ....ummm..."stuff"....happens in other parts of the business world as well. It just hurts more when it comes to dealing with our animals.

Sorry that this has happened to you - did your vets say if she would ever be breedable? Marty, we plan on moving to Tennessee in about 5 years if all goes according to plan - we have been looking awhile and last year made up our mond when we picked up our AQHA stallion that Tennessee was for us!
So sorry this happened to you but we too have found some disreputable as well as wonderful breeders out there. All have turned out Ok for us but it took time and of course money. It also is hard when most of my horses have come to me through out of state sales. But what I felt I had to do to get the quality I wanted not so true now but when we started it was.So had to buy based on pictures and what breeders were willing to tell me. Again Condolences.
Having been around horses all my life I really do not find this story at all surprising. Horse traders were the basis of all the people we deal with today, used car salesmen, unscrupulous contractors, mechanics, politicians all learned their methods from horse traders. There have been so many things done in order to sell horses over the years and people still get caught in bad deal. I have seen horses given Novocain to cover lameness, tranquilizers to calm wild dispositions, hair coloring and even cosmetic surgery and the list goes on and on. Mini horse owners are even more prone to being taken advantage of because many mini horse owners are first time buyers and have very little horse experience. Being new puts a buyer at an unfair advantage when faced with an experienced horse dealer. Sad but true there are more people out to do you harm than do you good.
That is why when its comes to a mare for breeeding I wont buy from anybody other then family and friends of the family that i trust.

When I sell im as open and honest about the horse that I can be.
Bill I'm so sorry to hear this. I would love to say it must be a miscommunication as I have such a hard time believing there are so bloody many disreputable breeders out there.

As for your mare, if her cervix is closed from scar tissue, it can be removed should you want to breed her. If the repro vet disagrees well then it is a dead-end, but I know at UCD they've removed scar tissue as long as the vagina/uterus is undamaged. My understanding was a local anesthetic, a simple surgical removal and follow up with antibiotics and the dayglow cream (I can't remember the name of it, but we've had it perscribed for every dystocia to avoid scarring).

We had a mare with similar issues and that was the vets recommendation to remove it in the Fall before the year before we would attempt to breed her, and then recheck before an actual cover.

We chose to sell her as a pet instead of dealing with fertility issues.

If you read this would you PM me the name of the breeder - I do like to keep a confidential list of those types.

Again so sorry this had to happen.

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