Disgruntled New Person

[Charlotte]

I have to agree with Mary Lou and Songcatcher.........Join both registries and after a time you will deicde if you want to continue with both or just one. We are in both as each offers certain advantages that the other doesn't.

But $200 to reserve your farm name!!!!!!!! ????????? Geez Louise! That seems quite excessive to me! I wonder what the reasoning was on that?

I'm sure sorry you are having difficulty right from the start! I can only say, try to work around it and continue with your new endeavor..........the rewards can be great!

And WELCOME to the world of little horses! (whose stalls I must go out and clean now :bgrin )

Charlotte

 

[Lewella]

There were extremely good reasons for the price increase and it was necessary to make it immidiate because of those reasons (do a search of past threads - this has been well discussed). As SweetOpal pointed out the change was effective on 11-11. The office didn't know until the change was made by the Board of Directors that a change for sure would be made or what the changes would be so they had no way of informing anyone in advance of an impending change. Remember, the Board of Directors is not the same as the home office. The change was made on the online forms within just a few days after it went into effect which is as quickly as can be expected. As was also pointed out - the work order says prices subject to change without notice.

And I'll say it again - you aren't reserving a "farm name" - you are reserving a PREFIX OR SUFFIX to be used when you register animals that you have bred. If you aren't breeding and do not intend to breed then there is absolutely no reason to reserve a prefix or suffix.

 

[Yaddax3]

HolyMoly:

Does what happened to you suck? Absolutely.

Can it be rectified? You'll have to make a few more calls to AMHR headquarters to find out.

The fair thing would have been to make the rule change effective Jan. 1, but chances are most of the folks voting already have their farm names secured and it doesn't impact them. So, raising it from $20 to $200 didn't seem like such a big deal. To them.

 

[holymoly]

There were extremely good reasons for the price increase and it was necessary to make it immidiate because of those reasons (do a search of past threads - this has been well discussed).

And I'll say it again - you aren't reserving a "farm name" - you are reserving a PREFIX OR SUFFIX to be used when you register animals that you have bred. If you aren't breeding and do not intend to breed then there is absolutely no reason to reserve a prefix or suffix.

While I know this is not cats, I have been in the cat fancy for quite some time and I do not see what could possibly justify charging $200 for a farm name/prefix with no notice to anyone - whether it be called a farm name, prefix, or whaever does not make a difference. But for the record, you have not said it to me before to have to say again. :bgrin

Both major cat registeries charge about $50 to register a cattery name which is also from then on out used for a prefix. No one else may use that word or one within 2 letters the same for a prefix in their cattery. One registery has it as a one time fee for lifetime and the other registery has to be renewed every 5 years. This has worked very well for them both.

As to whether or not I am breeding, yes I do intend to breed or I would not have any need to register a farm name or a prefix if you prefer the word.

Stephanie

 

[Songcatcher]

Wouldn't they have posted a note on the front of the website when it went into effect? I did check the website before I sent it in. I had no idea what day the change took place as I called in one day, rcd the info in the mail a few days later and sent it back in.

As to the WCMHR, didn't the other 2 registeries start with open registrations? I don't know much about them but I thought that was how they all started out?

Anyway, thanks for the warm welcome everyone.

I look forward to becoming more involved in the mini horse world.

Stephanie

In regards to the fee changing, you are just the victim of bad timing. Sorry. Many of us BEGGED AMHR to do something about the abuse of suffixes. They did. Maybe not what everyone wanted, but they did SOMETHING.

In regards to the registries starting with open registrations, of course they did. The way I see it (and apparently many others) AMHA and AMHR are simply years ahead of WCMHR, and possibly so far ahead that WCMHR may never catch up.

I'm not trying to put down WCMHR by any means. I just think most serious breeders feel it is not worth the time, money, and effort to add their horses to that registry when there are two WELL ESTABLISHED registries for Minis. My opinions only, not intended to put down any one or their horses.

 

[littlearab]

First off welcome.. :saludando:

I'm sorry if your timing was off on the farm name.. and yes $200 does sound pretty high. :new_shocked:

But my main reason for posting was to say I see nothing wrong with WCMHR. I have some horses with WC papers.

I would say go and look at the site, call ask ?s for yourself.. There is allot of miss information out there about WC. Mostly because people do not take the time to find out for them selfs...

Here are corrections on just two false remarks made here ....

They do require photos always did. :bgrin . AMHR is just now asking for photos!! The horse's photo is on the back of the papers much like AMHA does. AMHR papers have no photos.

Not just any miniature can be registered...

Horse with AMHR and AMHA papers can be and also grades.

But to register a grade mini you must have a VET fill out a form,to it being sound and NOT dwarf,and the fee is higher, but not too high. .. AMHR does not hardship. AMHA I do believe there is an insection, but not by a vet.

I see WC as a pretty good registery and with AMHR not having hardshipping at all and AMHA being very high priced , there surely is room for it in the miniature horse world.

So please check them out for yourself. Do not take someones ( who does not know much ,if anything about WCMHR) word for it that it is a bad registry or worth less.

JMHO..

 

[Jill]

I used to support WCMHR years ago by sponsoring classes at their shows.

WCMHR has been around years -- long enough to get their act together. I do live in the area where their papers do have a use since I'm close enough to go to their "National" show but I have become completely fed up with how sloppy they are.

I threw away all my WCMHR papers. To me, they were not even worth keeping in my registrations book. I don't see WCMHR ever adding any value to a horse unless you live right around NC and go to their show, and then I'd say "maybe" it adds $15 or so to the horse. It's not run by a Board of Directors but by the owner of the registry. I hate to sound negative, but in my opinion, the papers are not worth the time to request nor the fee to purchase them. My opinions about WCMHR are based on my experiences with that registry.

AMHA and AMHR are the two "real" registries.

 

[FairytailGlennMinis]

I have also had AMHR problems. I sent in paperwork for my yearling gelding a year and a half ago and was told it never arrived. There was also a gelding certificate for my older gelding and I had the transfer papers for him--they wouldn't take MY vet's word he was in fact a gelding, I had to go waaaaaayyyyy back and get an actual "certificate" from the vet that did it--9 years prior! Anyway, they tried to tell me that my papers never got there for the yearling but wanted to argue with me about the gelding thing--that this WASN'T a cerificate. Ummm....that is all the vet does for any of them and doesn't have any other "certificate" and the yearlings papers were in the same danged envelope. At first they "didn't have" any of the papers for over 6 months then all of a sudden I get the other stuff back--minus the yearlings papers that they say they didn't get...maybe it was like the older boys stuff that they "didn't have" and then did--marked not but a couple of weeks after I sent it??? Yeeaaahhhhh. I am still hot under the collar about it and said screw it. I am not going to show AMHR and they can keep whatever. I am staying with ADS and my 4H kids can show open, fairs and ADS and we may go down for the WCMHR show, where I have had the most fun. Alllll done with the bullcrap!!!

-Amy

 

[CKC]

I haven't read everyone's responses, but wanted to respond on WCMHR. I sent in my horses papers for the second time(the first time it took over a year to get his papers when he was first registered) in July. I have called twice and e-mailed about 4 times. I haven't gotten a single response.

I have spent a great deal of money with this registry. I've won many awards at their shows. This isn't a good way to treat a customer. I've been a member off and on since near the beginning of their registry.

I don't know that I will ever see my horses papers again.

Kim

 

[Gena]

I am so sorry you have had a bad experience with one of the registeries.

I want to share that I have been a member of both registeries for years, I have even hardshipped through AMHA, and have always been treated very well. I am hoping you just caught someone having a bad day, I am sorry. The prices do seem to be going up. I feel that if you were told the original price on the phone and you sent your money right out they should honor that, maybe try talking to someone else? I hope things work out for you and you will give the registry another chance.

 

[Buckskin gal]

I see no good reason for the AMHR BOD to have raised the cost of a prefix/farm name to $200 when there was no need for the money to the registry. I too feel it did not affect them because they already had their prefixes. There were other ways to stop the buy up of prefixes by the greedy...such as limiting them, but why they didn't do that is very questionable. I think it was a quick fix after several years of not doing anything to finally be able to say they done some thing! It is nice to see that AMHA is including their members to have a say about things and will be looking forward to when we have a chance to vote on such matters as increases in the costs of things. I was also upset when AMHR started charging extra for a spouse to be on the membership. What is all that extra money needed for?

: Mary

 

[Lewella]

I have AMHR work orders in my files going back to 1999 - they charged for a second membership in the household then...........

The AMHR isn't after money but sometimes hitting people in the pocketbook is the ONLY legal option to correct abuses.

Looking back at that 1999 work order........

Membership fees are the same

Registration fees are the same

Transfer fee is the same (with the exception of the addition of $10 extra if the transfer is over 6 months old)

These are the most basic fees any association charges its members. And IMO AMHR is CHEAP!!!!!!!!!!! Join a few other registries and you'll find out just how reasonable AMHR is.

 

[jlh]

my husband has been a member of AMHR since 91 or 92. it took me several years to realize that I was not a member as well. oh well, as long as we have papers made out is his name or my name, they still let me sign paperwork and checks. I might have joined as a second member, but I don't personally get out in the ring, so unless I go to apply for steward or judge training, I probably won't do that. in the meantime, I can serve as a representative for my husband on the forums.

I can then express our mutual disappointment in the way the prefix/suffix issue has been handled.

from a business standpoint, it really is a good example of how not to treat a client, new or long-term.

unfortunately for this new person, your timing managed to fall between the cracks of one of those situations that happen with every organization from time to time, ie the board of directors, in a panic over one issue, managed to make it much worse in the a most imaginative way.

I'm sure by the time you spoke to the office again, everyone who had answered a phone call had been chewed out right and left. I'm not making excuses for them, just noting that you did not get the service that is typical of this or the AMHA office.

just as I don't accept the excuse that "prices are subject to change without notice" is an excuse for making major changes without notice to the membership in advance. there could have been notice that each member/address location could purchase one suffix and one prefix at the current rate through the end of the year, then the price would go up.

 

[Tammie-C_Spots]

I'm sorry about your experiences

I would think if you were quoted over the phone they should honor that. I'd call and talk to that person.

I am a member and have reserved prefix in both A and R. I like both registries and have had good and bad with both. Glad to see R is wanting photos now.

I have registered with WC and with Pinto as well as AMHR and AMHA because I thought it added value to the horses and to the people that purchased them it did so it was worth it. I also register my pure Falabellas with FMHA.

Tammie

 

[Buckskin gal]

May I ask, did the BOD have lawyers advising them that the only way to solve the problem of the prefixes was to charge the $200.00? And what did it cost to have this advise given? Just curious because I don't understand why it wouldn't be legal to just charge the normal fee for the first one and then $200.00 for the second, third etc. When we first joined AMHR we did not get charged to have more than one name on the paperwork. Mary

I have AMHR work orders in my files going back to 1999 - they charged for a second membership in the household then...........

The AMHR isn't after money but sometimes hitting people in the pocketbook is the ONLY legal option to correct abuses.

Looking back at that 1999 work order........

Membership fees are the same

Registration fees are the same

Transfer fee is the same (with the exception of the addition of $10 extra if the transfer is over 6 months old)

These are the most basic fees any association charges its members. And IMO AMHR is CHEAP!!!!!!!!!!! Join a few other registries and you'll find out just how reasonable AMHR is.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Welcome to the mini world!

So sorry to hear that you had such an bad first expierence with AMHR. I am an active member in AMHR when it comes to registering horses and shows, which includes Nationals, and never really had a problem with them. At times I wish they were a little bit more helpful. But I always remeber my first expierence where I had a MAJOR problem with one of my horse's paperwork and AMHR could have left me there to dry. They didn't and they helped me. Zona is such a nice person to work with

: . Everything worked out.

Now when it comes to the prefix price increase. Did it need to be done, I say yes in a way. But they should have done a better job and warn people about it first. Thats a HUGE increase and nobody knew about it.

AMHA is a great registry too. They have got alot better since I've joined them. Very nice registry. I don't deal with AMHA as much as I do with AMHR tho.

 

[Jean_B]

Welcome to the world of Minis!

I'm sorry you ran into bad timing with reserving your Prefix, and that you had a bad experience when calling the office. I've been working with AMHR since 1991 and have had nothing but GREAT experiences working with them. I've done my share of bone-head things over the years and we figure out a solution on the phone and laugh about it. They are really helpful, and hopfully it was just someone having a momentary and SHORT-lived bad day.

As for the reasons for the increase, those of you griping AGAIN about the reasons -- this was talked to death in a previous couple of topics. I think Lewella has done a great job (again) of explaining it. And I agree it was way overdue -- and that $200 is a small price to pay for "brand name" recognition.

Please don't let this one experience cloud your decision to get involved in either registry!! Both AMHA and AMHR are great organizations with lots of helpful staff and of course lots of great members.

 

[Buckskin gal]

I do understand that there were some who thought there was a need to stop certain people from buying up prefixes/farm names, what isn't understood by those I have talked with, is why it had to be stopped by raising the fee so dramatically when money shouldn't have been the issue....the issue was about taking care of the problem of too many prefixes/farm names being bought up by greedy people. Should the innocent have to pay for someone elses' greediness when there were other ways to solve this problem? Lewella indicatrd that the abusers had to be hit in the pocket book but since they already have many prefixes they really aren't going to be the ones that are hit in the pocket book it is the people who do not have a prefix/farm name that are going to be hit...punishing the innocent to get even with the abusers does not work well. "The AMHR isn't after money but sometimes hitting people in the pocketbook is the ONLY legal option to correct abuses. " I don't see how the abusers are being hurt nor do I understand why it was the ONLY legal option. If this has been explained somwhere else I sure couldn't find it so I hope it will be explained in full by Lewella. As a paid member I feel we all have the right to understand why things are done in a certain manner...

I do understand that no person has to pay for a prefix/farm name to AMHR because we do have rights to use our farm names in naming our animals...maybe copyrighting them would be the way to go or have them as our trademark. Then what? Mary

 

[spazkat]

The issue wasnt necessarily only people being "greedy" and taking too many.. because it was so cheap people who were buying all sorts of things "just in case" or whatever. Minis are different than most breeds in that everyone and thier mother is a breeder, and as a consequence MANY farm names are very similar.

That said, while it was a bit sudden I completely agree with the immdiate change in price. It really was the only way to avoid the office being innundated with last minute requests, and probably alot of them being "just in case I might want it later" rather than an actual planned decision to trademark your "product". The AMHR is a BUSINESS, with costs that are rising just like your living expenses are. They have employees who want and expect cost of living increases, business costs (electricity, internet, rent, etc) which are steadily rising, and an increasing membership which means an increased work load and more resources. The fee (except this one) have not gone up at anywhere near the same rate as cost of living has, so we really have very little room to complain. I dont think they have to "justify needing money" to raise a fee, especially when the whole point of raising it was to lower the number of people requesting thet service in the first place.

 

[Buckskin gal]

Well, as I read about the issue it was stated it was about too many requesting prefixes, that already had prefixes, and it was an abuse. I never did read anywhere that raising the fee was also about "every one and their mother being a breeder"and too many prefixes/farm names being too similar. Maybe the probem then is too many big breeders are producing too many miniatures and then too many others end up being breeders also?? This is one of the reasons why I am asking the questions....was it about abuse, as some say, was it about a need to have more money for the registry to increase salaries, as you say, [some say there wasn't a need for more money] was it about stopping the greedy from aquiring too many prefixes, as others have said, and the list of why's seem to only grow. All these reasons for raising the fee but no reasoning as to why it had to be done by hurting those who have not yet applied for a prefix/farm name. Perhaps what we will see next is that sales will be limited to only a few instead of to "everyone and their mother" who become breeders [now whose fault is that?] then their won't be a need for more prefixes/farm names! :no: If people who breed miniatures don't want everyone and their mother to become breeders, then stop selling your miniatures to everyone. Make your sales exclusive to those who won't become yet another breeder....geld your colts and have those mares fixed....oh but that would cost them some money??? Yes each has thier prespective on the issues that come up but why should some have to pay for others abuse?

It really saddens some of us. Mary

The issue wasnt necessarily only people being "greedy" and taking too many.. because it was so cheap people who were buying all sorts of things "just in case" or whatever. Minis are different than most breeds in that everyone and thier mother is a breeder, and as a consequence MANY farm names are very similar.

That said, while it was a bit sudden I completely agree with the immdiate change in price. It really was the only way to avoid the office being innundated with last minute requests, and probably alot of them being "just in case I might want it later" rather than an actual planned decision to trademark your "product". The AMHR is a BUSINESS, with costs that are rising just like your living expenses are. They have employees who want and expect cost of living increases, business costs (electricity, internet, rent, etc) which are steadily rising, and an increasing membership which means an increased work load and more resources. The fee (except this one) have not gone up at anywhere near the same rate as cost of living has, so we really have very little room to complain. I dont think they have to "justify needing money" to raise a fee, especially when the whole point of raising it was to lower the number of people requesting thet service in the first place.