Deworming problem

[Minimor]

US or Canada, it really is no different. I know people here who only deworm 2x a year, and I know local vets who say that is not enough. We deworm 3 to 4 times per year--did do it every 8 weeks at one time, but not any more. 3x a year means I will probably see worms in the manure after deworming; 4x a year and I don't see them. We do not do fecals--probably should, but we don't. I've had vets here (Manitoba) warn me about resistance to ivermectin, particularly in foals, but so far that has not been an issue for us. Ivermectin is still my preferred dewormer when it comes to foals and yearlings--it is still very effective against roundworms (better than the strongid recommended by the vets)--and that may be because we haven't overused it by deworming every 8 weeks with ivermectin.

As far as horses looking "wormy"--I've seen horses that were fat and shiny and those horses still had a huge load of worms--you wouldn't have known it to look at them, but when they were dewormed they dumped a huge load of worms in the manure 24 hours later. Young horses might start looking rough if they have a heavy worm load, mature horses are less likely to as long as they are well fed. Young horses with a heavy infestation of roundworms will start coughing... mature horses that are thin/rough may be wormy, but the biggest issue in my experience is usually lack of feed, or bad teeth. If teeth are good and they have sufficient feed (and good quality feed) they will hide a huge worm load.

Two flakes of feed per day may well be enough for some horses, depending on size of horse and quality of hay. I have minis 33" and taller, and most of them would be very hungry if all they got were 2 flakes of hay per day. Mine get more like 2 flakes 2x per day and that is a good grass or grass/alfalfa mix

 

[miniaturehorselover]

Well my vet is very good on what he is doing.. so far my mare is gaining weight so i will keep it to that thanks for your replies was really helpful

 

[Little Wolf Ranch]

I'm glad you got your answer on the deworming protocol! Deworming questions, like many other topics (ie. feeding, breeding, hay, housing, blanketing, farrier, pasture mates etc.), will usually result in a different answer from every horse person that you ask!

If I were you, since you only have one mini would be to worm her as you and your vet feel it is needed. What may help with keeping her ribs nice a flesh covered would be to add just a tiny bit of grain. I'm not sure what feeds you have readily available in your area but something like Purina's Enrich 32 would work. It won't make her obese but it will make sure that she has everything she needs in a very small amount of feed.

Going into winter, I would much rather have a horse that is on the fat side than one that is on the skinny side - I don't like to blanket so it's easier on me for them to be their own blanket lol.

I know this is off topic - but I see you do trick training, do you prefer any certain videos or books that teach you how to do them? I was just thinking she would make a perfect unicorn or pegasus for a costume class!

 

[miniaturehorselover]

Hi i actually though my self to trick train.. no one ever helped me or anything it just came natural And yes she would definitely make a awesome pegasus or unicorn

 

[HGFarm]

Have not read all the posts, but that means the horse is very overloaded with worms! She needs wormed more often on a regular basis. No horse should be allowed to get that wormy before being wormed. It causes internal damage that could eventually be fatal. (We were given a couple of horses over the years that were full of worms like that- one died by the time he was two and a half, though we kept him on a regular schedule while he was with us, the damage was already done)

 

[Matt73]

I'm in Ontario and I always dewormed for tapeworms in the fall (after the first frost) with Eqvalan Gold. If you don't do it, you'll have a pretty unhealthy looking horse eventually (and that can lead to many other problems).

Also...you should be deworming, at the very least, 4 times/ year.

 

[Marty]

I know of a horse one time that actually died of worms. An appaloosa mare. (Big horse) She was only 4 and they ate inside the walls of her insides for lack of a better description. There is no reason for this, no excuse whatsoever for any horse to be dumping worms like that much less dying from them. That to me is cruelty and neglect.

I just don't do worms. I really would freak out if my horses dropped a worm load on me like that. It is not acceptable, no way no how. There's no excuse for a heavy worm load on any of my horses and there will never be. I de-worm rotating wormers 4 times a year at the very least.

 

[miniaturehorselover]

i didnt put this post to be freaked on i been telling my parents this for a year now since we got both our horses.. all our neighbors,vets and friends worm twise a year not my fault my parents dont want to get the horses dewormed 4 times a year..

 

[romewhip]

I agree with Marty, that just isn't healthy to my horse. I worm my dogs too, since I let them run on fields and places they might pick stuff up. 4x a year minimum, I do rotate wormers.

As to being thin on the topside along with changing feed up a little make sure to get teeth checked as well.

 

[crystalsowner]

We worm four times a year as well. We are in the US.

 

[Jenny]

We asked the vet how often to de-worm Breaker and she said twice a year. She said because he is alone and the ground is covered in snow 5 months of the year here, he wouldn't need to be dewormed very often. This was just for our unique circumstances here, though.

 

[Matt73]

No one's freaking" on you. You asked a question and some very knowledgable people are offering their advice .

 

[Marty]

I wanted to add something else because the OP is not alone. My former farrier informed me she too is no longer worming more than twice a year. A google search will have several articles on how horses over the years have become imune to a lot of the wormers that no longer have much effect.

There are quite a few people who do not believe in using "poison" in regards to their horses who choose to do things in a hollistic manner as well, like some people who do not believe in vaccinations.

Zimectrin Gold was said to cause certain problems in the mouth including blisters and swelling also and that was my dewormer of choice to remove tapes, so no more zimectrin gold for me.

So in all fairness, to each his own, but personally I will stick to my guns and continue to de-worm 4 times a year until someone proves to me it is not needed. A heavy worm load scares me.

By the way if you keep your eyes on the market, several companies now offer Ivermectrin 1.87 for about $3.00+ now a days including Horse Health Inc. and Dumor and Jeffers.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Marty, the chemicals in Zimecterin Gold are Praziquantel, that kills Tapes and Ivermectin at 1.55% so there is nothing there that can do any harm. The "bad" batch of Z/G that caused blisters and swellings proved to be the "carrier" in the product. That notwithstanding I would not use it by choice as the Ivermectin level is too low and it is under worming that causes resistance to build up in the first place. There has been a few cases of proven resistance in test horses, to Ivermectin, but there is still nothing as effective on the market, and all the drug companies have declared that there is nothing on the horizon to take it's place, either. Ivermectin only stays in the system for eight to ten weeks, so by worming every 12 weeks you are allowing two weeks every cycle for worms to build up in the system. I shall stick to every eight weeks, as is recommended, and add the praziquantel (which for some reason cannot be purchased separately in the States- no idea why?) in autumn and the Guard in Autumn and Spring- I do Tapes in Spring as well but I am a high risk area. It is important to remember when using these Spring and Autumn wormers that they should be as well as, not instead of, the base wormer. As far as I can see there is nothing to be gained by rotating wormers - there is still nothing as effective as Ivermectin on the market and rotating to a less effective wormer will allow a burden to build up again.

If you do only de-worm twice a year you still have to do the Guard five day for encysteds, which show on NO test, and Praziquantel for Tapes, which show on a blood test but not normally on a faecal. If you do not add these to your regime you really do risk your horses life- I lost a bought in foal to encysteds many years ago, I had de-wormed him, of course, but I had not done the five day course as I did not know about it then, and the migration through his gut killed him. He looked fit and well, had a good coat, etc. There really is no way to tell if a healthy horse has a worm burden, not form the outside.

I am sorry MHL, if you do not like the answers you are getting, but we speak from, between us, hundreds of years of experience, and a lot of bitter experiences, too. In future, if you just wish answers form those who agree with you, maybe you could put that, then those of us who do not agree will not comment.

 

[HGFarm]

Worms are the number one reason for colic. It can also cause chronic coughs and of course, death. If a horse is passing worms, it is LOADED with worms and I agree with a previous post, that is cruel and neglect. If the parents dont want to spend $5 on another tube of wormer for a couple more wormings per year, I doubt they would be willing to call a vet or dentist to have teeth done. Very sad, in my opinion.

 

[wingnut]

Worms are the number one reason for colic. It can also cause chronic coughs and of course, death. If a horse is passing worms, it is LOADED with worms and I agree with a previous post, that is cruel and neglect. If the parents dont want to spend $5 on another tube of wormer for a couple more wormings per year, I doubt they would be willing to call a vet or dentist to have teeth done. Very sad, in my opinion.

I can say from experience how true this is! We nearly lost my (now) show horse at 6 months because of an worm impaction collic. That was the worst and longest 72 hours of my life. And we had only had horses for 8 months at that time. My husband was close to saying they all had to go as he felt couldn't go through an experience like that again.

We got very lucky. Our vet came out in the midst of a blizzard (6" on the roads with no plows in site and 10 more hours of snow to come). He came back the next day to check on her even though we hadn't called (we had talked by phone) to ask him to. Wormer is something I don't fool around with here as a result.

ETA: We still follow a bi-monthly schedule based on my vet's recommendation. We talk every year about what her current research/protocols are. Because we have 5 horses in close proximity, she recommends this over fecal counts. I could do the fecal counts but haven't done so at this point.

 

[paintponylvr]

Rabbitsfizz - what is "the Guard"? Drug name?

Is this the same as Safe Guard (generic and less expensive version of Panacur) or Panacur? And the same 5 day protocol would be a double dose of Panacur (also known as the Power Pac here)?

**********

As to Ivermectin - if you sign up for emails of specials thru Valley Vet (equine) and/or Dover Saddlery - you will several times a year get the chance to purchase Ivermectin paste for $1.99/tube. Each of these specials is usually limited to only 12 tubes at a time, but if you were to order 12 on the first day of the special (for those who have larger number of horses), skip a day or two and then order again, you can get quite a number of tubes of Ivermectin for $1.99. I usually order enough products from Valley Vet to get my shipments for no charge. Dover Saddlery charges shipping fees which increases the cost of the wormer per tube but it's still significantly less than the cost from any local Feed & Farm/Supply stores.

Personally I LOVE using liquid Ivermectin. That is a vet prescription now, but soooo much easier to give, easier to measure at much smaller amounts (10 cc for 1100 lb horse & of course less by weight for our shetlands and minis). When I use Panacur and Strongid, I use liquid - MUCH LESS EXPENSIVE and for me, much faster/easier to give then a lot of paste tubes. I hit all of mine at the same time/same day - usually right after feeding in the morning on a day when we aren't going to be working horses for a couple of days. Both Panacur and Strongid come in generic products that can be purchased w/o a 'scrip and also in smaller bottles or even single doses. The smaller sizes are more expensive per dose, but still less per dose than using the "easy" paste wormers currently available everywhere.

**********

The vets in our area DO NOT AGREE on the proper worming protocol for this region of the piedmont/sand hills of NC. So, I read studies on worming, follow the different views on the various forums (learn new things ALL THE TIME), follow what my particular vet that I'm currently using says AND watch my ponies and horses! I've occasionally done fecals and since I have so many equine in a relatively small area (37 head on 8.9 acres not all of which they are on or have access to), I'm thinking about getting a microscope and doing fecals myself again (used to years ago). They aren't hard to do. I do worm them all more often then some recommend - generally following the every 60 days with the drugs being alternated. Every year, I seem to have one foal &/or one yearling that doesn't do well - and they get increased worming and changes - which makes a BIG difference in how they look and then clean up their feed. I am suddenly noticing that some seem to be dealing with ulcers - don't know if this is due to showing, worm load, changes in their "status" as they mature or what. Several are related and I think that this might run in a family line - especially since they are all "nervous" and highly re-active ponies.

Previously we picked up manure by hand in each paddock/pasture as well as any penned ponies. Now, I have a machine that attaches to our riding lawn mower (Cyclone Rake). I pick up each pasture at least once a month - and sometimes more often as I've moved ponies around or as it appears they need to be - time permitting. The Cyclone Rake is then dumped in the back every time it's used and the manure, grass & leaves are spread by a bush hog at this time, a couple of times a year. Soon, it will be worked into this back "pasture" (not fenced yet) via the ponies and various plow/harrow arrangements...

 

[paintponylvr]

When we had ponies in Shelby, MT - just 35 miles from Canada - the vet(s) recommended only worming 2x yearly AND vaccinations only 1x yearly... For me, that was from 1995 thru 1997.

My parents were in that area from 1990 and mom still lives there and last had horses in 2011 - still only wormed 2x year and vaccinated in the spring on 20 acres - no pasture clean up ever. When my step dad was still alive, pens were cleaned at least twice per month. Pens were cleaned...at the end before mom sold the last two... maybe 2x yearly by a neighbor who would take a tractor and bucket to clean them.

Moving to NC with the ponies in 1997 was an eye opening experience and is a wild-ride balancing act all the time to this day!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Yes, Equine Guard- Fenbendazole. Really only useful for foals and encysteds in five day programme. As I mentioned, I am not happy with "rotating" base wormers, and shall stick to base of Ivermectin,every eight weeks, + Praziquantel and Fenbendazole twice a year

 

[paintponylvr]

And you don't use Pyrantel Pamoate (Strongid) at all?

and you can get Praziquantel by itself?