Cross between Arenosa, Buckeroo and Stout lines?

[desrtwind]

Hello....I'm relatively new to mini lines and trying to learn. I'm sure this cross has been done before. I'd like to hear how it worked! Did it work well? I'm thinking the Arenosa lines would bring more "stretch" and "show" to the Buckeroo and Stout lines and the latter 2 lines would "beef up" the Arenosa lines a bit?

What about attitudes? I've heard that the Arenosa lines are more "arabian minded". Now don't get me wrong, I LOVE arabians (have bred them for well over 30 years!). I take that to mean that the Arenosas are more energetic, you have to reason with them to train them, etc. Not silly, just hotter. Am I taking this correctly?

Am looking forward to learning more about these lines! Thanks in advance for your input!

Melody

 

[Marty]

I wouldn't go by any of that, but I see what you're trying to understand. Every horse has its own conformation and disposition regardless of how he's bred. You can take two full brothers of any bloodline and get two completely different horses in conformation and disposition.Its kinda like thinking all Irishmen love beer! But I'm Irish and I hate beer. Play it safe by going by the individual. Just my humble 2 cents.

 

[desrtwind]

Thanks Marty! I appreciate the input. Just trying to learn about all the mini lines and if certain lines tend to produce certain characteristics on a regular basis. I know with the arabians, certain lines will be prone to producing X,Y and Z attributes on a regular basis. If you cross eyptians with polish, for instance, most times you retain the pretty of the egyptian line and the polish adds more hind end to the equation. The egyptians are thought to be more "hot", though I bred them for years and preferred them to other lines! I found them to be very intelligent and intuitive, hence what most people perceived to be "hot", I put down to they are just more in tune with their environments.

So, I guess I'm after the same insight in the minis. I haven't heard too much about the arenosa lines, so am not sure exactly what to expect with them and their "trends" to pass on certain attributes. I've been looking at lots and lots of pics and pedigrees online and what I see of the arenosa makes me think of an arabian in type. I've only spoken to a couple of people about them though and they are the ones that said they are more tempered like an arab, "more hot" in their words. A lot of the pictures I've found myself liking turn out to be Buckeroo and Stout bred horses as well. More body for the most part and more substance IMO on the whole.

So my thought process goes to the next step and I think, drawing from my arabian experience again, if I cross the Arenosa lines (similiar to egyptian arabians in my mind) with the Buckeroo or Stout lines (more like polish arabians in my mind), will the outcome be nice full bodies with pretty heads and refinement on the whole (realizing that the 2 individuals need to be compliments for each other first off, in order to be even considered for mating together)??

I realize each horse is his/her own individual and can differ from sibling to sibling. I suppose the bottom line I'm asking is, do the mini lines tend to be predictable in a certain "look" that they reproduce or are the lines so intermingled through-out history, that the genetic pool is more like a pot luck of what comes out each time? Does that make sense?

 

[disneyhorse]

It's a pot luck.

Some lines also have less desirable traits that are bred in.

You have to look at the individual horse, as conformation varies quite a bit. Minis aren't bred to breed "true" to anything in particular.

Also remember... The miniature is a fairly "new" breed, it is not a couple hundred years old like Arabians. In minis, you talk about decades, so the depth of the gene pool generally isn't there.

When you talk about Stout or Buckeroo... Well Buckeroo just recently passed away so how deep can those genes be? Talking about a specific breeder versus entire geographic areas is comparing apples to oranges.

With another hundred years, maybe we will get there, but there isn't even a set type in minis

 

[targetsmom]

I see where Melody is coming from and I think there are some mini "lines" that more or less "breed true" for some things. For example, I would say that the "Blue Boy" line produces pretty heads and the "Dandy" line produces nice movers. I also agree that the history is a LOT shorter for minis so maybe there are just fewer - or not as good - examples. But I bet there are more than the two I just thought of.

 

[desrtwind]

This helps! I hadn't even thought of the fact that minis are a relatively "new" breed. Good point disneyhorse, that Buckeroo just passed on recently, so definitely true that his line doesn't go that far back. But his offspring certainly have a look about them! I see a horse I like, research the pedigree and there it is...Buckeroo is either their sire or grandsire! So to me, he definitely stamped those genes into his line.

Thanks to targetsmom too. That's exactly what I was thinking of....if you want a pretty head, look for this line, if you want an excellent mover look for this line, etc.

 

[Minimor]

Also...keep in mind that if there are certain traits you don't want....a poor hip for instance....then there are certain lines to stay away from, even if they have other traits you like.

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

There are lines. Every breeder has a different version of the perfect horse! My little war dance son is sensible but sassy. He was bred at buckeye walnut Creek farm. He has a good head, a strong hip, and great legs.

 

This helps! I hadn't even thought of the fact that minis are a relatively "new" breed. Good point disneyhorse, that Buckeroo just passed on recently, so definitely true that his line doesn't go that far back. But his offspring certainly have a look about them! I see a horse I like, research the pedigree and there it is...Buckeroo is either their sire or grandsire! So to me, he definitely stamped those genes into his line.

Thanks to targetsmom too. That's exactly what I was thinking of....if you want a pretty head, look for this line, if you want an excellent mover look for this line, etc.

As to the Buckeroo line, it goes back to Gold Melody Boy who is registered as a Miniature, but was a Shetland whose lines go back 100 years or so, and there were some beautiful champions in those lines. So, the "miniature" per se may be a "new" breed since the Registries are new, but some of those that trace directly to the Shetland lines can go back a VERY long way, even back to some of the European Shetland and Hackney lines.

And I agree, there are some pre-potent lines that seem to throw their traits down their pedigree lines, but of course, there are those horses that seem to be "skipped" in some of the traits once in a while. There are several "good" crosses that have produced some astonishing offspring when bred together. I know there are people here that have had some great luck with crossing certain lines, and hopefully they will speak up here.

 

[mystic collies]

One of our colts this year was a cross between Stouts Miss Shortcake and Little Kings Buckeroo Fame Both are on the Little King website, she is a foundation mare and he is on current stallions. The colt is leggy, refined and has a super disposition. Mom is 28 inches but has a history of being a great producer having produced Doctor Dream and Bandstand. Wish I could figure out thisd picture posting thing, but will be golad to share through email

 

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Good luck.

 

[mystic collies]

Ok this is our 2013 colt from Stouts Miss Shortcake by Little Kings Buckeroo Fame

 

[Magic Marker Minis]

My stallion, Casper, is a Doctor Dream son... He produced two babies for me this year and I'm ecstatic! They are gorgeous... The buckskin pinto filly (Casper X Mini Bucks breeding) is bigger and is very leggy... The solid buckskin colt is a cross with Casper and a Buckeroo granddaughter. I'm very pleased with him...

Kari

One of our colts this year was a cross between Stouts Miss Shortcake and Little Kings Buckeroo Fame Both are on the Little King website, she is a foundation mare and he is on current stallions. The colt is leggy, refined and has a super disposition. Mom is 28 inches but has a history of being a great producer having produced Doctor Dream and Bandstand. Wish I could figure out thisd picture posting thing, but will be golad to share through email

 

[mystic collies]

The buckskin looks a bit like our Supreme Dream filly, is Casper the stallion in the third photo?

 

[Miniv]

I agree with Marty just from our own experiences....We bred a mare and a stallion over several years and each foal has been different....one year the foal favored the stallion, the next favored the mare, and one was a nice combination of both. You just never know.

We have a Buckeroo grandson and his children tend to throw that head and eye, plus the bone and strong hip, but it's not guaranteed.

We also have two full Arenosa stallions and yes, many of our foals have both the Arab look AND attitude, but again, it's not an absolute.

 

[Magic Marker Minis]

Yes, Casper is in the third photo... I'm not very good at photography, but this was a fairly decent pic... I have a better photo on our Facebook page - Magic Marker Miniatures...

The buckskin looks a bit like our Supreme Dream filly, is Casper the stallion in the third photo?

 

[Magic Marker Minis]

I've been told the dark buckskin is called 'brown' buckskin... Has a brown gene attached to the Agouti gene... Shot through the heart!!! I don't 'DO' brown! I prefer to call it 'Chocolate' 'cause everyone LOVES chocolate... ha-ha!

The buckskin looks a bit like our Supreme Dream filly, is Casper the stallion in the third photo?

 

I wouldn't call him a "brown" buckskin, but he looks like he's carrying the "sooty" gene, so I'd call him a "sooty buckskin" if that makes you feel any better! LOL

 

[Tab]

Do you mean Scout lines or do you mean Stout lines? Stout are foundation and Arenosa are a type of Shetland. Scout is my favorite bloodline, but Buckeroo is probably a breed-wide most favorite. My senior herdsire doesn't have much for "fancy" bloodlines; he has foundation lines, but he is the tiniest and some would argue the most beautiful in my herd! It definitely varies, especially with minis, because most are outcrosses. You generally don't see as much linebreeding in minis as you do in Arabs or Haffies. People aren't generally well versed in linebreeding these days. (They think it's inbreeding.)