Country Pleasure

[shalamara minis]

For those of you who drive in Country Pleasure or have driven in this class, how do you feel about the Single Pleasure horses dropping down to this class and winning. The LOC committee says that this is our breed evolveing and I disagree with them. How do you feel and have our Country Pleasure horses just become worthless. AMHR added a new class due to this. Was that the answer?

 

[Mini Oaks]

To me Country Pleasure is not displayed as the words emply. Country Pleasure is a nice leisure ride through the countryside. Instead it's a race to the finish. I no longer show country pleasure because I am just throwing money away. We have now show in Western Pleasure Country Pleasure which is non-rated as of now, hopefully soon to be a rated class.

 

[ClickMini]

Hello, Bill, I have actually done this very thing this year, so I suppose I am qualified to give a point of view.

In my case, my mare enjoyed some success in Single Pleasure in her first year of showing. She did pretty well in some shows and completely bombed in others. In numerous cases, I was told that people saw her as more of a country pleasure horse at this point in her life, at any rate. This is in regards to her movement, her strength, her ability to sustain at that level. By the time we got to the Central Point show, little Flirt was starting to show the stress of her training, and was becoming irregular and as an owner, I felt it my RESPONSIBILITY to ask the trainer to please drop her down into Country Pleasure where she wouldn't have to be so extreme. We went to Nationals in that class, and yes she did come home with a reserve National Championship in Country Pleasure Mares. And believe me, she was moving in a Country Pleasure frame, in sidechecks, and with a long sweepy pretty country movement. I posted a video clip of us preparing her for Nationals in which we had already made the decision. http://s9.photobucket.com/albums/a91/amyla...onalsprep-1.flv Although she had previously enjoyed success as a single pleasure horse, I would contend that you see a very pretty COUNTRY horse in that video.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Quite frankly.....

if a horse can revieve a HOF in Country Pleasure, Open Pleasure, Park Harness and can truly be all 3 of those things then why couldnt they drop down or move up a class?

If not then one would have to redo the whole system if you truly believe that one horse cant be all 3 JMO

 

[ClickMini]

My video link in Photobucket is kind of wonky, try the youtube version:

 

[skanzler]

Bill,

Country Pleasure has always been used for those horses not able to compete in the Single Pl classes, it is also used for green Single horses, until they are able to build maturity, both mentally to and physically to move on to the Single Pl classes.

Sadly the miniature horses have a difficult time in the Single classes, as they are just not built to do Single. To find a truely gifted Single Pleasure horse you have to look long and hard. There are several out there that go with their head elevated, thanks to over checks, dumb jockeys etc. And yes, the natural head set of the horse, ie upright neck and good flextion at the pole. But many lack the movement needed to compete in the Single Division. "a high headed horse does not a Single Pleasure horse make". So we are seeing more and more horses moving into the Country classes. We as a breed want so much to be looked upon as our counterpart, ponies, morgans etc. But they are just not built like our larger counterparts. Yes we do look like them in many aspects, but the body parts are smaller and therefore the shoulders are smaller and therefore are not able to rotate, thus giving them the ability to elevate the leg into the more vertical motion.

I think that AMHR is trying to find a place for those miniatures that are what some call "daisy pushers". Those horses that move more under themselves, that have a sweeping motion instead of breaking at the knee.

It may not be the total answer, but at least those horses had a class that they could compete against others of similar movement.

IMO until the judges start penalizing those horses that are definitely NOT Country horses, in the Country classes. The owners and yes trainers will continue to enter those classes.

 

[Magic]

IMO until the judges start penalizing those horses that are definitely NOT Country horses, in the Country classes. The owners and yes trainers will continue to enter those classes.

EXACTLY!! There are far too many judges that just have no idea how to judge driving, and just judge the classes as if they were all the same. This isn't just my opinion-- I know judges who have told me about fellow judges they were at shows with, that were simply clueless when it came to driving. OH!

 

[shalamara minis]

Clickmini, I know your horse, and I think she is a very nice Country pleasure horse. And looks to me like that is the class she should have been in.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

I guess I've always been curious why everyone seems to accept that the miniature horse should model itself exclusively upon high action breeds like Morgans, Hackneys, modern Shetlands, etc. Not all of us want that! I admire those breeds, but I've always preferred a more forward reaching hunter horse with a nice arch to their neck and I thought (and perhaps it was wishful thinking) that is why we have the country pleasure classes, to allow all the different types of miniature horse to showcase themselves. It looks from the rules like they were supposed to be different kinds of movement, different kinds of presentation, not just "This is where the losers or those who aren't cool enough yet go."

Now I could be wrong about that and obviously that isn't the way things are working in real life, but that is what many of us wish it could be. We get frustrated when horses with not-as-high action are automatically written off as being worth less. It's annoying! People pay dang good money for hunters in the big horse world, it's not like they aren't valuable.

Anyway, that's my .02. I don't think the Western Pleasure angle was quite the way to address it but I'm glad at least they're trying something. If a horse truly can do all three (or four!) classes well, then power to them. But it's not fair to do the same thing with a slightly looser check and win just because your knees move higher in the class where that isn't supposed to count.

Leia

Edited to add: I still think the answer for horses who don't have the experience to win yet is a green horse or novice class for each division like every other breed offers. Or, gosh forbid, wait to show them or accept that you will have to work your way up. Not PC in a breed where trainers have to make their clients happy, I know, but sensible.

 

[stormy]

Interesting discussion, in my view the Single Pleasure horses are switching to Country Pleasure because Single Pleasure is no longer judged as a pleasure class, it is judged as a Park class. What is needed is Park harness division for the influx of Hackney type moderns being cross registered right now.

 

[ckmini]

I also agree that I like the hunter stlye movement on a country horse and a good hunter mover can be a good country horse (I just sold one).

I dropped my stallion from pleasure to country this year. I think he might have the potential to be an open horse, but he is green still and just hasn't found his "groove" thus he is driving country.

With all this being said anyone run into a judge that thought your horse's movement was too extreme (in pleasure driving)? Just curious, I had a judge (a highly regarded one too) say this to me about the mare in my avatar.

edited for spelling

 

[Minimor]

I have horses that are definitely open pleasure horses, and I have horses that are country pleasure horses. The ones I see as country pleasure, no doubt there are other people that would say they don't belong in country pleasure. It all depends on your outlook, I guess.

From watching some classes, I have to say that I think there are a number of horses being shown in open pleasure that I would say should be dropped down to country pleasure. They have some knee action, but not enough for open pleasure.

I know there are some people that think country pleasure horses should have almost no knee action at all, but I just don't agree with that. IMO there are quite a few horses that should be moved into country and I really haven't seen many that I would say should be moved up. Likewise, I don't think there are yet very many Minis that truly belong in the Park division. Maybe a few of those that are double registered ASPC, but not many. I think they are lovely open pleasure horses.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Minimor I could agree more with everything you said.

 

[Fred]

I have country horses and pleasure horses and either type can go level or extend or shorten stride it depends on how they are driven. Its called horsemanship with a talented horse. By the way I know many minis that can go level or above naturally without artifical enhancements.

 

[Miniv]

IMO until the judges start penalizing those horses that are definitely NOT Country horses, in the Country classes. The owners and yes trainers will continue to enter those classes.

EXACTLY!! There are far too many judges that just have no idea how to judge driving, and just judge the classes as if they were all the same. This isn't just my opinion-- I know judges who have told me about fellow judges they were at shows with, that were simply clueless when it came to driving. OH!

Interesting discussion, in my view the Single Pleasure horses are switching to Country Pleasure because Single Pleasure is no longer judged as a pleasure class, it is judged as a Park class. What is needed is Park harness division for the influx of Hackney type moderns being cross registered right now. (quote by Stormy)

I actually agree with ALL the above!

Until the JUDGES can distinguish the difference in movement, we are STUCK. And we will have owners and trainers who will try to fit what the judges (who haven't learned about performance) are looking for!

MA

 

[wildoak]

I've always preferred a more forward reaching hunter horse with a nice arch to their neck and I thought (and perhaps it was wishful thinking) that is why we have the country pleasure classes,

Yes, coming from a QH background I'm fond of the flatter knee and sweepy stride you would look for in a hunter horse or a QH pleasure driver. The horse who won one of the Western CP classes at Nationals could have passed for that easily if you took away size reference. Don't know who it was - a leggy bay horse with absolutely the flattest knee & most level topline I've seen in a miniature. He was sure a standout in the class in my mind, and what I would consider the ideal.

Jan

 

[Ashley]

I think the judges just need to judge the classes for what they are. To many dont know the difference.

I also dont like how a horse can HOF in all the driving. BUt then again I hate it when you can see the fake movement in some horses as well. I think if you look at the horse and can tell enhancements were used to make something they didnt necessarly have they should be penalized.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

I had my guy in CP, he did OK, I won a few Ammy classes with him. When they added the WCP I dropped his head and he was Res Grand at Nationals this year! He's not super flashy but he moves VERY nicely, just not with a lot of action.

When we came out of the arena after his Youth class the lady who WROTE the rules for the WCP class came over to us and told us that the way he moved was EXACTLY what she had in mind!

And WCP WILL be a point class starting in 2008!

Lucy

 

[Sandee]

I had my guy in CP, he did OK, I won a few Ammy classes with him. When they added the WCP I dropped his head and he was Res Grand at Nationals this year! He's not super flashy but he moves VERY nicely, just not with a lot of action.

When we came out of the arena after his Youth class the lady who WROTE the rules for the WCP class came over to us and told us that the way he moved was EXACTLY what she had in mind!

And WCP WILL be a point class starting in 2008!

Lucy

It was a point class starting Natl's unless the points I got for 4th in WCP are wrong. My guy got 4th in the under class and got 45 All Star Pts and 9 HOF pts for it.

Yep, WCP was just what he needed but I had to have someone else watch him and convince me to drop him down. He just doesn't have the "steam" to do any good in CP. I was told his "fast"/extended is too slow for the slow trot in CP.

I could have popped all my buttons when he placed so well.

 

[willowoodstables]

IMHO I have seen it in various breeds. A horse "drops" down to the "new" division ..ie WESTERN Country Pleasure.

THEN, OMG!!!!! The division takes off as people actually PUT/SHOW their horses in the correct division. When Pleasure first came out in hackneys you had harness ponies, roadsters etc. Now the Hackney Pleasure Division is JUST that. You need a PLEASURE pony according the the hackney society standards. A "big" time pony can drop down into pleasure, but he won't do well. It took a long time for people to "LOOK" at a horse/pony and make a decision in which was the proper spot. IMHO the reistery in promoting having horses drop down from Open pleasure to country by offering awards (HOF). A roadster is another completely different type too.

In all honesty, the registries that promote an all round horses is not a bad idea, but make it a performance horse and a halter horse. Not a multi function horse..IMHO they don't exist. Every horse has a niche...find it and enjoy it.

Kim