Could I get some opinions please

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Taz

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Neither have been tested, I know from past foals they both carry red. I'm really not this stupid. I've always thought of colour genetics as 1 from each parent and the dominant colour is expressed unless they both throw a recessive then that is expressed. 1 bay, 1 chestnut and you have a bay. 2 chestnuts and you have a chestnut. etc. If dad is pintaloosa how can he through solid? I was thinking he could only through pinto or appy. or is pintaloosa like saying bay and he may be heterozygous for it and carry solid? I probably have you all confused now, sorry. I'm up trying to watch her on my camera that's only covering the middle of the stall, I see lots of feet, noses and tails. My new camera doesn't work. UGH! Waiting for the plumber to call back to put a new water pump in the house. But I'm (like the royal we) having another baby so it's all good! Thanks for trying to make sense of this 🙂
 

elizabeth.conder

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Neither have been tested, I know from past foals they both carry red. I'm really not this stupid. I've always thought of colour genetics as 1 from each parent and the dominant colour is expressed unless they both throw a recessive then that is expressed. 1 bay, 1 chestnut and you have a bay. 2 chestnuts and you have a chestnut. etc. If dad is pintaloosa how can he through solid? I was thinking he could only through pinto or appy. or is pintaloosa like saying bay and he may be heterozygous for it and carry solid? I probably have you all confused now, sorry. I'm up trying to watch her on my camera that's only covering the middle of the stall, I see lots of feet, noses and tails. My new camera doesn't work. UGH! Waiting for the plumber to call back to put a new water pump in the house. But I'm (like the royal we) having another baby so it's all good! Thanks for trying to make sense of this 🙂
No worries!!!! I didn’t think you were stupid AT ALL. I hope I didn’t come across that way! So you’ve got the base colors right. There are some nuances though. Like a red horse to a red horse can only produce red. Black to black (both red carriers) is a 75% chance of a black foal and 25% or a red foal. Bay to bay can have any three bases depending on each individual. It helps to think about it this way. You have a base color (red, black, bay) and many modifiers. I can’t think of a true DOMINANT modifier at the moment. For every modifier (like grey, pinto patterns, Appaloosa patterns, silver, cream, champagne, roan, etc) that a horse has, it has a 50% chance of passing that gene. Now sometimes there are modifiers that are linked to specific bases so if a horse has both modifiers, it can only pass one. But pinto and Appaloosa are not that combo. I believe it’s roan and tobiano. So if the stallion has two pinto parents, there is a chance he will be homozygous and carry two copies of that gene which means he will produce pinto foals every time. Same thing with his Appaloosa gene. If he is only heterozygous for either, that will give you the option to have a solid foal. For instance, my stallion is a bay base. He has tobiano and silver. He can have any three bases, with tobiano, without Tobiano, with silver without silver, with tobiano and silver, or without Tobiano and silver. Because he is only heterozygous. That’s why I suggested sharing a picture of your stallion because certain patterns are indicative of homozygosity.
 

Taz

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No worries!!!! I didn’t think you were stupid AT ALL. I hope I didn’t come across that way! So you’ve got the base colors right. There are some nuances though. Like a red horse to a red horse can only produce red. Black to black (both red carriers) is a 75% chance of a black foal and 25% or a red foal. Bay to bay can have any three bases depending on each individual. It helps to think about it this way. You have a base color (red, black, bay) and many modifiers. I can’t think of a true DOMINANT modifier at the moment. For every modifier (like grey, pinto patterns, Appaloosa patterns, silver, cream, champagne, roan, etc) that a horse has, it has a 50% chance of passing that gene. Now sometimes there are modifiers that are linked to specific bases so if a horse has both modifiers, it can only pass one. But pinto and Appaloosa are not that combo. I believe it’s roan and tobiano. So if the stallion has two pinto parents, there is a chance he will be homozygous and carry two copies of that gene which means he will produce pinto foals every time. Same thing with his Appaloosa gene. If he is only heterozygous for either, that will give you the option to have a solid foal. For instance, my stallion is a bay base. He has tobiano and silver. He can have any three bases, with tobiano, without Tobiano, with silver without silver, with tobiano and silver, or without Tobiano and silver. Because he is only heterozygous. That’s why I suggested sharing a picture of your stallion because certain patterns are indicative of homozygosity.
I think I'm being stupid about this, you didn't come off that way 🙂. I'll post some pictures of him when I get a chance, that would be great, thanks. Completely understand what you've said. How is your mare doing? Are you surviving school?
 

elizabeth.conder

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I think I'm being stupid about this, you didn't come off that way 🙂. I'll post some pictures of him when I get a chance, that would be great, thanks. Completely understand what you've said. How is your mare doing? Are you surviving school?
Awesome! She’s doing well. Slowly progressing. School is trying to send me to an early grave. Between the two, I’m fried and foal watch hasn’t actually started. 😅
 
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Taz

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You have lots of sympathy from me. I am so happy school is long over and I'm never going back. I have a boarder (known her for 17 years) who finished her phd about a year ago, she now has a 3 month old baby. She said the other day hands down school was more stressful and exhausting than a newborn. You're basically dealing with both, not easy.
 

Taz

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Here are a couple really bad pictures of dad and one of mom but I don't think you need that.
IMG_20200612_074135 (1).jpgIMG_20200612_074115.jpgIMG_20200612_073542 (1).jpg
I was only able to track down two of his foal, 1 was a chestnut pintaloosa and 1 was a black one spot pinto. The only kid I know of hers is liver chestnut with a flaxen mane and tail (chocoflax for a Rocky Mountain don't know for a mini). I don't really care what colour Jr is as long as he/she's healthy but if I get to choose I want a filly, I hate gelding them. Thanks so much!!!!
 

elizabeth.conder

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Here are a couple really bad pictures of dad and one of mom but I don't think you need that.
View attachment 43077View attachment 43078View attachment 43079
I was only able to track down two of his foal, 1 was a chestnut pintaloosa and 1 was a black one spot pinto. The only kid I know of hers is liver chestnut with a flaxen mane and tail (chocoflax for a Rocky Mountain don't know for a mini). I don't really care what colour Jr is as long as he/she's healthy but if I get to choose I want a filly, I hate gelding them. Thanks so much!!!!
Pretty minis! I’m inclined to say black base on both of them. The appy gene is prone to causing color shifting which makes it hard to know the real base. But I’d guess black. I suspect black on her too. He looks varnish which is usually heterozygous. His Tobiano is typical of a heterozygous tobiano. But sometimes they can surprise us. Soooo...what I would guess is this. Pretend that splash is Appaloosa. It doesn’t let you put tobiano and appy in. So everywhere it says splash replace with Appaloosa, and tovero with pintaloosa.
 

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elizabeth.conder

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Thanks! What is varnish?
Dragon Hill is right. It is an appy pattern. There are two identified genes for Appaloosas. LP which is what causes the white hairs. And PATRN1 which causes the actual spots. That’s how you end up with so many different Appaloosa patterns. For instance, a fewspot Appaloosa will be at least LPLP and PATRN1/.... so every single one of its foals will inherit white hairs, and if it only has one PATRN1 about half will get spots. Fewspots look like they are covered with one big white spot. Almost solid white. Snowcaps usually just have a big solid white spot over their hips. They are LPLP with no PATRN1. So all their foals will have white hairs but not actual spots. Leopards and blankets have one LP and at least one PATRN1 although they can have two spotting genes. And varnish has one LP and no PATRN1. Those are the general appy rules, but some don’t play by them at all, so without testing it is hard to say for sure. Sorry I probably went too in-depth, but genetics fascinate me lol.
 

Taz

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Not too in-depth at all, it's fascinating. That would explain what I've seen on Finn(his kid from last year). He's pinto with no freckles or other signs of appy( I thought) but his black has white(roaning) mixed in with it in his main and body, or at least what I've seen of his body he didn't lose much foal coat and is being very slow getting rid of any winter hair. So I guess he's pintaloosa not pinto?
 

elizabeth.conder

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Not too in-depth at all, it's fascinating. That would explain what I've seen on Finn(his kid from last year). He's pinto with no freckles or other signs of appy( I thought) but his black has white(roaning) mixed in with it in his main and body, or at least what I've seen of his body he didn't lose much foal coat and is being very slow getting rid of any winter hair. So I guess he's pintaloosa not pinto?
Very possibly! Usually varnish will increase with time too. Some horses born “solid” will end up almost pure white.
 

Willow Flats

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Not too in-depth at all, it's fascinating. That would explain what I've seen on Finn(his kid from last year). He's pinto with no freckles or other signs of appy( I thought) but his black has white(roaning) mixed in with it in his main and body, or at least what I've seen of his body he didn't lose much foal coat and is being very slow getting rid of any winter hair. So I guess he's pintaloosa not pinto?
Once he sheds out you'll have to post another picture of Finn!❤
 
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JFNM miniatures

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Very possibly! Usually varnish will increase with time too. Some horses born “solid” will end up almost pure white.
Very fascinating ! One of my mares, Nougat, was bred by a very experience breeder who said she was a bit disappointed when she saw a completely solid bay filly come out of her Appaloosa mare (stud was bay). That pair had already produced some very flashy foals and fillies, but she thought Nougat might be the exception so she decided to sell her. When I bought her, she was two y.o and had only ONE appy spot. Now, she's turning seven in June and has more and more spots appearing every spring when she sheds and gets whiter and whiter.

Genetics are just so complex, but so interesting !
 

Taz

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So a question and some venting.....

How accurate are the test strips? I'm using them right now and she's testing 8/9 so I'm only checking every 2 1/2 hours and getting some sleep. I'm on my third camera set up and waiting for one more piece to arrive, then hopefully will have it up and running so she doesn't disappear half the night. I did see some tail swishing with bum pushing two nights ago and she was rolling last night but not as much activity as with her last one.

There have been ehv-1 outbreaks in both Canada and the US recently. The latest here is 20min from me. I've shut the farm down to everyone but my boarders, with them warned not to have any contact with any other horses no matter what. I don't know if this is what I've been dealing with here since Jan (1 dead and 3 recovered, symptoms don't quit fit) but I'm being paranoid with Izzy and careful with everyone else. I did go ahead and give her her first of two foaling shots ( she didn't get them with her last foal and he was very sick at about 3 weeks old) and between that ( I know foaling shots are normal but there's always a chance) and the possibility of a stillborn foal from the ehv-1 even if she's not sick or showing symptoms, I'm worrying about more than just the normal foaling stuff. I haven't been able to feel the foal again of course. I'm really looking forward to this being over soon with a healthy FILLY.

Pitter Patter, Snickers better get there soon too, I think I'm as worried about her as Izzy.
 

Pitter Patter

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Oh Taz. I hope Izzy and the others will be ok! We thankfully haven't had any outbreaks here. What are foaling shots? Is this something I should be concerned with? I think Snickers has decided she isn't going to foal anytime soon. Just to drive me crazy, I'm sure...LOL!
 

elizabeth.conder

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So a question and some venting.....

How accurate are the test strips? I'm using them right now and she's testing 8/9 so I'm only checking every 2 1/2 hours and getting some sleep. I'm on my third camera set up and waiting for one more piece to arrive, then hopefully will have it up and running so she doesn't disappear half the night. I did see some tail swishing with bum pushing two nights ago and she was rolling last night but not as much activity as with her last one.

There have been ehv-1 outbreaks in both Canada and the US recently. The latest here is 20min from me. I've shut the farm down to everyone but my boarders, with them warned not to have any contact with any other horses no matter what. I don't know if this is what I've been dealing with here since Jan (1 dead and 3 recovered, symptoms don't quit fit) but I'm being paranoid with Izzy and careful with everyone else. I did go ahead and give her her first of two foaling shots ( she didn't get them with her last foal and he was very sick at about 3 weeks old) and between that ( I know foaling shots are normal but there's always a chance) and the possibility of a stillborn foal from the ehv-1 even if she's not sick or showing symptoms, I'm worrying about more than just the normal foaling stuff. I haven't been able to feel the foal again of course. I'm really looking forward to this being over soon with a healthy FILLY.

Pitter Patter, Snickers better get there soon too, I think I'm as worried about her as Izzy.
No experience with ehv -1. PH strips have been extremely accurate for me and my friends. The trick is to test them frequently enough to actually catch the drop. Because colostrum will test very very low as 6.4 or less. But some drop a lot faster than others. Once mine start dropping, I cast at least 2 to 3 times a day. And I say drop more I test more frequently. Since it only takes a drip, it really will not harm the colostrum production.
 

Taz

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Foaling shots are basically just their normal yearly vaccines given about a month before foaling so their immunity is high and passed on to the foal.

LOL. Every time I look at Snickers she's sleeping or eating, I hope you're seeing more go on than I am? Any change in her udder or elongation?
 

Taz

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Izzy is now day 327, you wouldn't know it looking at her, she's the least pregnant looking in the paddock(that includes 3 boys and 2 girls who definitely are not) I took these tonight, pH is still 8/9. She doesn't want to lie down at night and lots of tail swishing and holding her tail up. I think it will be another 4 weeks, best guess, but I'd be very happy to be wrong.
20210408_183542.jpg20210408_183730.jpgI could also be completely out of my mind and it's all wishful thinking and she's not in foal at all, but this is basically the same pattern she followed before. I'm going a little nuts second guessing myself. 🤪 🤦‍♀️
 
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