Conformation terms - Can someone explain

[disneyhorse]

No worries, I was just trying to state there is a strong preference among judges and breeders for a high tailset.

But, if you read the rule books, they say the tail should come pleasingly off a rounded croup or something to that effect.

So, not disagreeing, just discussing!

 

[Minimor]

I would have to agree that the majority of judges and breeders do prefer the higher tail set; I would say that a horse as described by circles (I think that's who it was) would do well less often than would a horse with a hip and tail set like my chestnut pony gelding pictured earlier.

There are a few judges who go for the stock horse type and I can name you one judge who apparently prefers horses with a hip like that in my bad example of a stifle/hip photo--and thats just plain bad!

 

[circlesinthesand]

ok, so for the sake of understanding, anyone want to critic these hips as they apply to mini's. For the record none of these horses are sickle hocked, that's not why I cropped the pics, though some may be standing with a leg forward and NONE of them are standing camped out. Ya just won't see me taking a pic like that I promise my feelings won't be hurt, I know what those horses are all capable of doing

 

[Cricket8]

I say take my picture of my mini and critique the heck out of her because I really could care less how she looks and (I am serious). Just so you can show the bad. Her personality and driving ability is what's so great. I would take another of her just for the personality.

 

[countrymini]

I say take my picture of my mini and critique the heck out of her because I really could care less how she looks and (I am serious). Just so you can show the bad. Her personality and driving ability is what's so great. I would take another of her just for the personality.

Ok, can i have a try lol.

She isn't balanced into thirds, not very big in the hip?

Did i get it right haha

(just quietly, i think she looks cute anyways)

 

[targetsmom]

ok, so for the sake of understanding, anyone want to critic these hips as they apply to mini's. For the record none of these horses are sickle hocked, that's not why I cropped the pics, though some may be standing with a leg forward and NONE of them are standing camped out. Ya just won't see me taking a pic like that I promise my feelings won't be hurt, I know what those horses are all capable of doing

LOL- 3 of these butts are my kind of rear ends ( 1, 2, & 5) , and 4 is OK in my book. But number 3 (to me) is what I mean when I say it is OK for a rounder butt or lower tail set as long as the rear end is strong. But this one isn't; it is short in the hip and slopes down too much (ski slope rump) for my taste and I would consider this a fault.

 

[circlesinthesand]

LOL- 3 of these butts are my kind of rear ends ( 1, 2, & 5) , and 4 is OK in my book. But number 3 (to me) is what I mean when I say it is OK for a rounder butt or lower tail set as long as the rear end is strong. But this one isn't; it is short in the hip and slopes down too much (ski slope rump) for my taste and I would consider this a fault.

Ok, lol. So really there are no differences then? as these are what I prefer as well. You're saying none of these hips are 'bad' yet the ones you like are reining QH's. 1&2 specifically are proven reiners, I know they get the job done..

The reason I chopped off the hocks was to try to disguise the breeds (I mean some things like feathers on the legs are obvious ). 1, 2 and 4 are all QH's.

3 is a grade draft mare of unknown origin (said to be Belgian/Clyde mix, dunno if that's true or not) and is a picture from when she was much younger, she's filled out an muscled up a bit since then, but who will pull the barn down if you ask her and is mostly valued for her personality (she's my ammy stepmom's steady cart horse)

1 & 2 were in my breeding program. 1 is the old mare I just lost, when she was in her late teens (probably 18) Shown extensively in performance events with multiple wins.

2 is the sire to my current gelding, the old mare's grandson, on the first day I brought him home (before he was halter broke, hence the muck!) He was shown lightly before I sold him and I don't think they went farther with him because of financial difficulties but he had an awesome slide, naturally took to it, the first time I stopped him from a trot, he sat and slide 4 feet.

4 was never a part of my breeding program and was a purchased gelding (I think he's a long yearling pictured here) but is a nice laid back fella, great personality which is mostly what I ask of a gelding. He's never been shown, and probably won't be but he is a nice ranch gelding.

5 is my unregistered mini mare that was given to me last month

I'm not sure what she can do yet, but obviously I'm never gonna ask her to slide

 

[targetsmom]

I didn't say none were bad - I would say #3 is undesirable, but the others are all fine in my book. I am also not surprised at all about the reiners, and since we like performance minis that is probably why I like the reiner butts!! Your mini mare - depending on her temperament and what the rest of her looks like - could turn into a nice performance/driving horse.

And don't say she will never slide - we free longe ours and we often see nice roll-backs to change direction!

 

[Mareish Mom]

Circles you didn't fool me, I had those pegged as quarter horse butts and immediately thought "reiner", but then, that's my thing too. Even my arabian has a nice round quarter horse butt lol!

 

[circlesinthesand]

I didn't say none were bad - I would say #3 is undesirable, but the others are all fine in my book. I am also not surprised at all about the reiners, and since we like performance minis that is probably why I like the reiner butts!! Your mini mare - depending on her temperament and what the rest of her looks like - could turn into a nice performance/driving horse.

And don't say she will never slide - we free longe ours and we often see nice roll-backs to change direction!

She's actually really pretty all around with alot of spunk but willing to listen. A little jumpy at times but not horribly bad. Most of it is that spunk coming out. Like if the dogs run by barking she'll get excited and want to buck but she doesn't do it when I'm leading her around. She hasn't really gone into a blind panic by anything and I'm taking that as a great sign that we can work her through any spooks she might have.

Looking at the pics and critiques here on LB, I think she's fairly nicely made, but I thought maybe she might have 'too much' butt, lol. She has some other minor faults but nothing to stop her from doing a job. She toes in a little bit, not bad, just a bit, she's been foundered and is cresty which is going down now that I have her.

I don't have the greatest pics of her yet, that cropped pic is a crappy cell phone pic in my cluttered barn aisle with a glare over her head and the lead rope across her eyes so you can't see her face very well My good camera is broken

I need to get it fixed! We'll see as far as the cart goes. I'm hoping she will.

I really wasn't trying to fool anybody (I'd have left it much longer ) I'm just trying to 'get it' when it comes to minis. I see these pics all stretched out and it looks awkward to me, then I see the same horse in videos and think, well that looks nice...then read about the high tail set and think well, that's not quite what I like either. So it's a jumbled mash of contradictions when it comes to the hip. To me a long strong hip is what I'm after and I'm not terribly concerned about the tail set, if the hip is long what exactly is the high tailset going to do other than flag when excited?

 

[Cricket8]

Ok, can i have a try lol.

She isn't balanced into thirds, not very big in the hip?

Did i get it right haha

(just quietly, i think she looks cute anyways)

Thank you! I adore her! She has a weak hip, a weak shoulder IMO, her head doesn't match her body, her neck comes out too low, long back, her hocks aren't quite right, and she has barely there stifles. Other than that, she's great! Haha.

 

[HGFarm]

I like a quarter horse type butt too. I like a long flowing ground covering stride- dont care at all about lift and high 'park' action, so am looking for a good versatile horse with a deep rear too.

 

[Tremor]

I have some minis with some rather awful conformation. (They wouldn't be so awful if they had just one extreme fault but with multiple of them...but hey I still love them! Plus, as their owner I have the liberty of calling my own herd out, lol.) Feel free to use their pictures to explain some conformational faults. I don't mind.

2002 AMHR Mare:

-Cowhocked as well.

(October 2011)

(June 2011)

2010 Grade (will be AMHR registered) filly

-You can't see in these pics but she is cowhocked.

(May 2012)

2011 AMHR registerable (will be) filly

-This filly isn't horrible by any means but she is far from perfect. Cowhocked as well. Dam is 1st mare above.)

(May 2012)

I tried to find good examples in my own herd. (Ones that weren't dwarves. I have a REALLY good picture of a 5 year old dwarf gelding that I could post but I won't) I also wanted to use up to date pictures.

Again, feel free to use them in this thread.

P.S. I have some pretty good example of cowhocks. I'll have to dig those up as well.

 

[Minimor]

Now that I'm on my PC instead of my phone I can post this...

Please use correct terminology! This wording

I'm struggling with the most to find out what is desired in a mini hip...plus the camped out pose is well...

is inaccurate and even a bit offensive…. The ponies pictured earlier are shown in a stretched pose, but they are not “camped out”. Camped out is a conformational fault—a stretched pose does not mean they are camped out.

For instance, this Mini mare is camped out

—a line run up the back of her hind leg and touching the back of the fetlock and the back of the hock will not intersect her hindquarters. That line will never intersect her hindquarters, regardless if she is stretched further or if she is stood square, or even under herself.

This horse is shown stretched—but he is not camped out. Even in a stretched pose if you run that line up the back of his hind leg it will intersect his hindquarter—and it will do so even when he is standing square.

if the hip is long what exactly is the high tailset going to do other than flag when excited?

what that high tail set does....it gives the horse a different sort of action. Obviously it isn't the tailset as such that gives the different movement, but the conformation that gives that high tail set most certainly does affect action. Your horse with the reining horse butt can trot, can pull a cart...but it won't do it in the same style as the horse with the high tailset. It doesn't necessarily mean that the horse will have high knee/hock action, but that horse will still move differently from a horse that has the build of a QH reiner. While action doesn't count for much of anything in the Miniature halter ring, it does count in the driving ring. Many people--breeders, judges, owners in general-- want a driving horse that moves like a fine harness breed (Morgan, Arab, Saddlebred) rather than one that moves like a western stock horse. Anyone wanting the former will be wanting the long, level hip and high tailset; if you want the latter then obviously you will choose the stock horse type.[/font]

 

[Cricket8]

Thank you! I adore her! She has a weak hip, a weak shoulder IMO, her head doesn't match her body, her neck comes out too low, long back, her hocks aren't quite right, and she has barely there stifles. Other than that, she's great! Haha.

Oh and cannot forget her tail is set low. She's a picture of loveliness!

 

[little lady]

This thread is an excellent learning tool! Having a visual of what is considered a flaw and what is considered good quality is wonderful. Thanks!

 

[countrymini]

This thread is an excellent learning tool! Having a visual of what is considered a flaw and what is considered good quality is wonderful. Thanks!

yeah its great, I was hoping for pictures as I pick up things quicker visually. I feel empowered haha, going to go and critic my little herd lol