Colour Gentics, Smokey Black?

[Kylie]

Hi all.. well Rayne's foal was born black as coal, in my experience a foal born jet black foal greys out (if 1 grey parent), as i went through that lastyear & the year before.

Anyhow, Zam's parents are not grey.

Dam is black tobiano (S: black tobiano, D: black solid).

Sire is black? (S: buckskin, D: black solid).

Now, the sire has *possibly* thrown 1 dilute foal (pali) to a chestnut white mare.... please bear with me, its gets interesting.

For 4mths, my stallion (the black sire of Zam) had access to the chestnut tobiano mare, i saw him serve her once.

This mare was a friends & kept in the same paddock with no worries, as she was meant to be infertile, she was an older mare & never feel preg, till then!

She foaled (off the property) a pali colt, his due date was exactly spot on, from when the mare was at my place & served.

The mares owners say my boy isnt the sire, ok, fair enough. OH!

So, could my stallion whom is black as black, be a smokey black?

Im 99% sure he's the sire of the dilute foal..... are smokey blacks, as black as coal?

Zam is black but i noticed today the hairs around his muzzle are lighter, almost a "dirty gold" colour, same around his eyes.... could he be a dilute?

Is it worth color testing the stallion, even though no other foals (that i know of), are dilutes?

I dont mind if dad & son are *just* blacks, im 100% happy with that, but its playing on my mind..... im curious!

Pics of sire.

Natural coat.

Clipped coat.

Zam. Doesnt show the lighter muzzle hair, also, his eyes arent brown, they are more hazel.

Any advice welcome. Thanks.

 

[REO]

I've learned that even black-black looking horses can be smokey black. Smokey black is a genetic color and you can't always tell by looking at them.

This little stallion I had was JET BLACK and he WAS a smokey black. He sired palominos, buckskins, cremellos and perlino.

The only way to tell your guy for sure is to test him for cream.

He could be smokey black

 

[Kylie]

Thankyou REO.

Lovely stallion.

 

[love_casper]

Yeah the creme gene won't always show on blacks in heterozygous form, so often there is no visual difference between a regular black and smokey black.

 

[REO]

We lost him 4 years ago

You can read about him on my Memorial page if you like.

Some of his foals are pictured there.

I have a banner link for Animal genetics on my home page

if you'd like to use them to test your stallion.

 

[Songcatcher]

So, could my stallion whom is black as black, be a smokey black?

Im 99% sure he's the sire of the dilute foal..... are smokey blacks, as black as coal?

Absolutely! Here is a picture of my Smokey Black Pinto, proven to carry Cream both by testing and by the Palominos and Buckskins he has produced. I have seen other Smokey Blacks that are jet black also.

 

[Riverdance]

Your stallion's father could be a smokey black because his father was a buckskin. Therefore he could have thrown the smokey black gene to his son, your stallion.

I find that many of the dilutes have a lighter eye but their body coat can still be as black as can be, though shaved down they tend to have black splotches in a lighter black coat. How many foals has your stallion had? Any others dilute? Has his father thrown any dilutes that you know of? There should be other dilutes in each of their backgrounds if they are dilute. Did any throw buckskins or palominos?

 

[Kylie]

Your stallion's father could be a smokey black because his father was a buckskin. Therefore he could have thrown the smokey black gene to his son, your stallion.

I find that many of the dilutes have a lighter eye but their body coat can still be as black as can be, though shaved down they tend to have black splotches in a lighter black coat. How many foals has your stallion had? Any others dilute? Has his father thrown any dilutes that you know of? There should be other dilutes in each of their backgrounds if they are dilute. Did any throw buckskins or palominos?

Hi.

My stallion has had quite a few foals (i know about 7 personally, not including Zam), several i know, he covered 3 outside mares last season, unsure what the mares have thrown.

The outside foals i know are black pintos, blacks, grey (born black) etc, as of yet, no known dilutes.

The 2005 filly by my stallion & from Zam's mum was black tobiano.

The only dilute that i 95% believe is his, is a pali, the only other stallion i had on the preoperty was a grey tobiano, but at 14hh, well the pali certainly isnt by him!

LOL.

I cant be 100% sure until i test the stallion, just in case.

My stallions sire has a couple of dilutes out there, silver bays, buckies, they are the only ones i have seen.

This is my stallions sire.

I will sort his sample out tomorrow & post off, now i'd go with Animal Genetics, how long should i have to wait till the results come back? As im in Australia.

Thanks everyone for being helpful & lovely mini's!!

 

[nootka]

I do know of smokey blacks that are coal black, and I had one here, though at times he did look like your boy w/the brownish body and darker points.

He had three colts for me. One was black, the next was silver black (silver came through the dam, who was chestnut), and one palomino. Same sire, same dam.

I will say that your stallion's sire looks more like a smutty buckskin to me. I've seen a LOT of buckskins with that coloration, so that would be where the dilute gene could have come from.

Without testing, though, there is no way to be sure 100% on anything. Were there any other stallions with the chestnut pinto mare that could have sired the pali?

Liz

 

[Kylie]

IWithout testing, though, there is no way to be sure 100% on anything. Were there any other stallions with the chestnut pinto mare that could have sired the pali?

Liz

Thanks Liz.

The mare ran with him for 4mths, Feb to May (pali colt born early March), the only other stsllion i had (but not in the same paddock obviously), was a grey Tobiano arab Pony, at 14hh, so definitely not his foal, lol.

But i'll get him tested, now do the results clearly say Smokey Black, or should i post the details on here for someone to tell me, lol.

 

[Suzie]

My stallion is DNA tested to carry 1 creme gene. Dam was black, sire cremello.

He has produced one tobiano colt with a tobiano mare. He also produced a smoky creme.

He does not have one white hair on him anywhere. His mane is sunbleached here. Normally it is coal black.

Hope this helps.

 

[KiaraBrook]

As the mare owner in question and as the colt is nearly 2 years old i think either the proof is provided or the subject is dropped off ALL forums.

If need be i will pay for testing if a hair sample is provided to me although i would then own those results.

The stallion has had quite a number of foals and only this one is a proven dilute. At 50% chance each foal being a dilute i would think there would have been others. This is why there is no stallion on his registration papers. I do not believe in falsifying papers to register a pony.

The mare did have access to at least 2 other miniature stallions at or just after these supposed dates which were both dilutes. The foal was a red bag and was probably early anyway, as the vet has said. He spent 5 days in intensive care and is lucky to be alive, and at great financial cost.

I have sold this mare as i am sick of reading this on forums all over the world, DNA was supposedly sent before but no results ever spoken of.

Get the test done or give it up.

 

[Riverdance]

Your stallion's father could be a smokey black because his father was a buckskin. Therefore he could have thrown the smokey black gene to his son, your stallion.

I find that many of the dilutes have a lighter eye but their body coat can still be as black as can be, though shaved down they tend to have black splotches in a lighter black coat. How many foals has your stallion had? Any others dilute? Has his father thrown any dilutes that you know of? There should be other dilutes in each of their backgrounds if they are dilute. Did any throw buckskins or palominos?

Hi.

My stallion has had quite a few foals (i know about 7 personally, not including Zam), several i know, he covered 3 outside mares last season, unsure what the mares have thrown.

The outside foals i know are black pintos, blacks, grey (born black) etc, as of yet, no known dilutes.

The 2005 filly by my stallion & from Zam's mum was black tobiano.

The only dilute that i 95% believe is his, is a pali, the only other stallion i had on the preoperty was a grey tobiano, but at 14hh, well the pali certainly isnt by him!

LOL.

I cant be 100% sure until i test the stallion, just in case.

My stallions sire has a couple of dilutes out there, silver bays, buckies, they are the only ones i have seen.

This is my stallions sire.

I will sort his sample out tomorrow & post off, now i'd go with Animal Genetics, how long should i have to wait till the results come back? As im in Australia.

Thanks everyone for being helpful & lovely mini's!!

In these photos your stallions father looks like a dark buckskin. Just because daddy is a dilute, does not mean all of his foals will be. If your stallion has not produced a dilute, he may not be a smokey black.

 

[MBhorses]

here is our smokey black colt not yet tested. He sire is black or smokey black and dam is cremello

 

[wiccanz]

I will sort his sample out tomorrow & post off, now i'd go with Animal Genetics, how long should i have to wait till the results come back? As im in Australia.

Not long at all - I posted some from New Zealand, got results within a week!!

Awesome service!

ETA: The answer to your original question is yes, he could be smokey black, if his sire is indeed a buckskin (which he appears to be).

Here is a link to a smokey black mare I used to own, with her smokey cream foal. She must have had a very 'strong' dilute gene (if there is such a thing), she has thrown a very high percentage of dilute foals (the latest is a palomino).

Smokey Black Mare

 

[Kylie]

Thanks everyone.

Will sort it out.

Now what colour eyes are normal on a smokey black, especially as a foal?

Love the pics of everyones smokey blacks, keep adding them!

Kiara Brook, i posted in regards to my own foal & stallion, im unsure what your on about, my stallion so i can use any example i like thankyou very much.

Matter of factly didnt realize it was your mare when kept at my place (for free i might add

).

Thanks to everyone, i'll let you know the results.

 

[KiaraBrook]

There are comments about my pinto mare and her palomino colt by an unknown sire. This discussion about your stallion being a possible dilute is easily fixed, as you have had this discussion before on other forums and well know.

I didn't think the mare being at your house for the 3 weeks you told me about at the time was a big problem, as you said at least he would get a ****. You told me yourself that she was on the road, and you put her in with your stallion. You could have taken her back to the paddock she was in.

If he is the father i will pay the $300 service fee minus the $1700 vet bill to save him and the mare.