Color Question? Yes another!

[Blackwater Farm]

I really didnt want to post this until I actually get her home but I should be getting a new filly within the next two weeks! I am VERY excited about her as she is the only offspring off of my treasured Blue Boy who is now a gelding. So to get to my question, I am really trying to learn more about these pinto colors and the genetics and have read just about every post on here that I could find on the subjects. I will get this filly tested for LWO when the time comes if I decide to breed her but I wanted to know what ya'lls thoughts were. Mind you she is not currently registered nor was her dam. Her sire, my gelding, was registered AMHA at some point but then sold without papers for reasons that I do not know. So I dont know his pedigree.

Here is the Sire: Blue Boy (May not be able to see it much in photos but he has a softball sized white spot right on the top of his hip, overo or tobiano? No white facial markings)

***His other side has no white***

This is her at birth with her dam: Misty, solid, no white except on face.

She has two blue eyes also. I'm wanting to say tobiano, but then again I remember reading that tobiano doesnt like facial markings? Do you think she could be LWO+? She also has striped hooves as does her sire. These are the only pics I have of her right now, she will not be here for another 2 weeks or so and I might can take better ones then. Also at birth she looked more like a sooty blackish maybe bucksin and white color and now (at 9 months) she looks definate black but has that light buckskin coloring in her ears, does that mean anything? Thanks so much ya'll I will take all the info I can get!!!! PS-I hope I did the pics right...

 

[Blackwater Farm]

This is her about a month ago, you can see the black has darkened but the inside of her ears are still that light color???

 

[Lucky-C-Acres-Minis]

My guess by the pics: Tobiano + Splash (can cause blue eyes) + Sabino

That said, if she were to be used for breeding I would def. test for LWO just to be safe..

 

[Blackwater Farm]

How much does it usually cost to get one of those full color tests? No sure what the technical term for it is sorry! That way I can find out exactly what she carries and what she could possibly throw. I dont have any breeding plans right now but by the time she gets 3 or 4 or whatever that may change. I like to be prepared and I dont take risks when it comes to my horsey loves as I'm sure ya'll can relate!!!

 

[ohmt]

Well her sire is a black tobiano + sabino and her dam looks silver bay with splash.

I also think the filly is tobiano + splash + sabino. Always good to test for LWO just in case.

If you test her, you'd only need to test her for LWO. You could test her for sabino too, but since it only tests for one form of many, there are a lot of sabino horses who test negative. I usually don't bother with it. Since her dam is not tobiano, she is heterozygous for that. Not tests available for splash at the moment. You could test for red/black if you'd like. You know she's heterozygous for sure, but since both her sire and dam are black based she could possibly be homozygous. No agouti and no silver.

 

[supaspot]

Well her sire is a black tobiano + sabino and her dam looks silver bay with splash.

I also think the filly is tobiano + splash + sabino. Always good to test for LWO just in case.

If you test her, you'd only need to test her for LWO. You could test her for sabino too, but since it only tests for one form of many, there are a lot of sabino horses who test negative. I usually don't bother with it. Since her dam is not tobiano, she is heterozygous for that. Not tests available for splash at the moment. You could test for red/black if you'd like. You know she's heterozygous for sure, but since both her sire and dam are black based she could possibly be homozygous. No agouti and no silver.

:yes

 

[Songcatcher]

Here is the Sire: Blue Boy (May not be able to see it much in photos but he has a softball sized white spot right on the top of his hip, overo or tobiano? No white facial markings)

***His other side has no white***

The sire definitely carries Tobiano + some form of Sabino plus possible other pattern genes.

This is her at birth with her dam: Misty, solid, no white except on face.

The dam appears to carry Splash. The foal definitely carries Tobiano and I would be 99% sure she is also Splash.

She has two blue eyes also. I'm wanting to say tobiano, but then again I remember reading that tobiano doesnt like facial markings? Do you think she could be LWO+? She also has striped hooves as does her sire. These are the only pics I have of her right now, she will not be here for another 2 weeks or so and I might can take better ones then. Also at birth she looked more like a sooty blackish maybe bucksin and white color and now (at 9 months) she looks definate black but has that light buckskin coloring in her ears, does that mean anything? Thanks so much ya'll I will take all the info I can get!!!! PS-I hope I did the pics right...

The blue eyes and snip are strong indicators of Splash. There is no doubt she is Tobiano, but the white on her face and the blue eyes is caused by other patterns added to the Tobiano. She could be LWO+ but you would need to test to know for sure. I have a filly that you could not tell by looking, but tests positive.

I would recommend Animal Genetics for testing. Tests are $25.oo each. There is another company that offers the "full color" tests, but I have no confidence in them at this time. I have heard that Animal Genetics is working on a SNP test that will test for all colors/patterns in one test, but it is not available yet.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I second Freeland but would add that I think the Dam is Dunalino, so if it does not run the bill up too far I would test for Cream.

Is the Sire of the filly Grey, do you know, he looks Grey, and that would make me wonder about Sabino, although I would think it is there, it usually is!

So, Splash, obviously, Tobiano, yes and Sabino probably.

I do not think LWO is there but commend you for testing anyway, that is the only way to be certain you will get no dead foals!

Pretty filly

 

[ohmt]

I suppose the sire could be grey (especially if he's blue boy bred), but I really think his 'roaning' is just sabino. If you look at his tobiano markings, the edges are very 'feathered' at the edges. The filly has the same 'feathering' around her star indicating she is sabino as well.

The dam is not dunalino. She is definitely black based, indicated by her darker legs. With her flaxen mane, she is silver for sure as well. I can kind of see a dorsal, but can't really tell in the picture for sure. Either way, she is either silver bay or silver bay dun. I wouldn't think she is dunskin as usually silver on buckskin makes them very, very light.

As for the filly being born a lighter color: Almost all foals are born a muddled version of their true color. It is a defense mechanism because out in the wild they would have to be able to hide and blend in until they were strong enough to evade predators. I see so many people who get a black or black pinto foal that is a greyish color and think they have a grey and advertise as such, when really it is just black or black pinto but hasn't had a chance to shed its foal fuzz to show the true color.

 

[Blackwater Farm]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the responses. All the paperwork that I do have on the stallion, now gelding, says that he is a blue roan not a grey. His face is solid black and so are his knees, down until the white of course. I think he may have some appy in there somewhere too, he has the striped hooves and mottleing around his lips, not eyes though, I dont think. He's just a genetic fun bag! LOL!

Heres some other pics of the mare with her woolies on. To give everyone a better idea of her color. I want to say she did have a dorsal stripe and some faint zebra markings on her legs but you could only see them once she's shed out. You can kinda see it a bit on the back left leg in the pic below.

 

[ohmt]

Silver bay dun, no cream

For some reason I hadn't considered blue roan for your gelding! If there is no roaning on his head, I'd definitely say blue roan, but still sabino too. Striped hooves come along with a variety of colors/patterns, not just appy. All of my pintos/toveros and silvers have striped hooves. Mottling does come with grey and sometimes my sabinos have almost mottled looking skin on their lips, but usually only if they have a chin spot. I guess knowing what his sire and dam's colors/patterns are would be the only way to know exactly. He IS interesting!

Anyway, you only need to test for LWO and then black if you're curious as to whether your girl is homozygous or heterozygous. All the other patterns/modifiers that she could have gotten from her sire and dam are dominant and you'd be able to see on her so they can all be eliminated (agouti, dun, silver, roan)