Collar or breast strap?

[~Dan]

Hi everyone.

I am in the process of purchasing my first cart and harness for use on my "B" sized mini mare, Polly. My question is, do I purchase a harness with a breast strap or breast collar? It will come through the Amish, so it will be qaulity crafted, but I have no idea which to go with. My trainer/instructor, who has minis, recommends a collar, as she feels the pressure is more evenly distributed, and gives the horse more surface area to pull into, compared to that of a breast strap. I then called up my friend, Alex, who also drives and has minis, and she thinks that a breast strap is better, as she has never seen a collar that, in her opinion, properly fits a mini. So I'm at a loss, as I am horribly indecisive. The harness will not be used in the show ring, just for putting on my horses and going for a drive around the yard, or down the road, I'm intending on ordering a nylon one, due to the fact it's easier to care for than a leather harness. Any input as to which you would go with, and why would be greatly appreciated!! I am a green driver, who's just learning the basics thankfully my driving horse is well trained, however.

Dan.

 

[Sue_C.]

If you want synthetic, I highly recommend betathane over nylon. Nylon will fray, and is also very apt to get "grungy", harden with sweat, and rub/wear at your horse.

I have a full collar that I use on and off, but generally my horse wears a "super V" breast collar, which is just about as close to the perfect answer as it gets. If you go to the Country Carriages USA site, you will see a very good picture of this collar. I highly recommend it.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

I'm intending on ordering a nylon one, due to the fact it's easier to care for than a leather harness. Any input as to which you would go with, and why would be greatly appreciated!! I am a green driver, who's just learning the basics thankfully my driving horse is well trained, however.

Hi Dan! Let me second Sue with a "No, no, oh HECK no!!" on the nylon harness idea.

Leather definitely has some downsides but nylon is actually much harder to care for as you can't really clean it without it stiffening up and stiff, nasty nylon will chafe your horse terribly. Because of these traits no reputable harness makers I know of sell harness in that medium, meaning that most nylon harnesses you can find aren't very well-made and don't fit at all. You're much better off going with a basic leather harness and caring for it nicely or putting out a little more money and buying a good synthetic. Cheap synthetics can be pretty nasty (stiff and won't conform to the horse even after years of wear) but good ones are worth their weight in gold. Most drivers use betathane, which is nylon coated with a leather-looking plastic substance that can be easily washed. Biothane is another option but it's shiny like patent, slippery in reins and shows every little mark or scuff. Beta is much better. The best companies for mini-sized synthetic gear IMO are the ComfyFit brand (I like to buy from Janie at Chimacum Tack) or the Country Carriages harness Sue refers to. I know expensive harness seems like an overwhelming investment when you're just starting out but most of us have learned the hard way that it's better to buy one good harness at the beginning then a poor one, then another poor one, then a bunch of parts to try and improve them, then eventually the good harness anyway! LOL

If your mare is a large B-size she might also be able to fit harness from Zilco, which is one of the better synthetic harnesses for full-sized horses.

As for your question about what kind of collar, what kind of cart will you be using? If you're getting a cart with horizontal draft (meaning the singletree is straight back in line with the shafts) then you really cannot use a neck collar. Neck collars are meant for use with what we call "lowered draft," where the singletree is somewhere in the vicinity of the horse's hocks or, in the case of agricultural work, extends further back along the same line to the farming implement on the ground. If you use it with a singletree up above the shafts it will tilt the collar forward and put uncomfortable pressure on her lower shoulders and can sore the horse quite badly. If you are using a cart with a lowered singletree like a Bellcrown or something similar, a neck collar can be a good choice but you will have to search long and hard for a well-fitting collar and probably have the hames special-ordered to get the line of draft right so the pressure is even across the mini's shoulders. Breastcollars are so much easier with these little guys!

I agree with Sue that a contoured, padded breastcollar is really the way to go with most minis. They get up over the shoulder like a collar does and stay off the windpipe but don't have the fit issues collars do and can be used with either sort of draft. Plus they're wider than your usual straight leather breastcollar so there is greater surface area to take the weight. They are great for trail driving and very comfortable for the horses!

Leia

 

[~Dan]

Thank you very much for the replies!! I meant to write back a long time ago, but got really busy these last few weeks.

Anyway, first off: haresses. Okay, I looked at the biothane harnesses, and while yes I do like the look, I would prefer something, like you said Leia, that isn't slippery to work with. So my question is, should I keep looking for a betathane harness for her, or go with a less expensive leather pleasure harness?? I did some searching around on the Ozark Mountain website, and found this particular leather harness that is in my price range. Would someone mind taking a look at the webpage for me, and seeing if you think it would be a good buy? Again, I just want something that is comfortable and safe for the horse, and one that I can put on and go for a ride around the yard or in the woods with. No marathon driving or CDEs... yet!! lol. The link is below...

http://www.minitack.com/mw95.htm

And now, the carts. Leia, I have no idea what any of that means, but here is an approximate idea of the type of cart that I intend on getting, so perhaps you can determine from the picture.

http://www.minitack.com/mw95.htm

This is the type of cart that I am currently learning in with my trainer. I want an easy entry cart for the express reason that they are more reasonably priced for going for a quick trail drive than the fancy show carts, and I would like something that I can hop in and out of easily and quickly if need be.

And I really like the look and idea of the Comfort V breast collar, I will most certainly look into ordering one!! I just can't seem to find where the pricing is listed on the Country Carriages website, however.

Thanks so so much for all your help!! It is greatly appreaciated!!

Dan.

 

[susanne]

Another reason for breast collar over neck collar -- your post reads horses. It would be highly unlikely that you would find a neck collar to fit more than one of your horses, so if you are looking to have one harness fit more than one horse, a breast collar is pretty much essential.

From all I've read and heard, the Ozark pleasure harness would suit your needs quite nicely. The carriage harness is better, but obviously costs more.

The Presidential Harness from Ron's Harness ( http://www.ronshorseharness.com/products/Presidential-Single-Horse-Harness-with-Breast-Plate.html ) gives great bang for the buck; it is safe and comfortable and well made, but a bit bulky and homely.

 

[paintponylvr]

Hi Dan -

I 2nd some of what is said above but also have some other caveats!!

I've just purchased my first harness from Ozark Mtn Mini Tack. I haven't had a chance to try it on the mare I purchased it for - 2 reasons - 1/ - I just got home from American Shetland Pony Congress and dropped down into TX to visit my Dad and the farm where two of our other ponies are. I ended up staying an extra day, so that I could get a brand new horse trailer - which will then go to AMHR Nationals with me. 2/ - A piece on the headstall was broken and Lisa, personally, is sending a new headstall to me and it hasn't arrived yet. BUT - Ozark has been wonderful to work with - both LIsa and all the staff she has working with her. This may be my first harness, but not anywhere close to my first order thru them! I ordered the basic Mose Miller one that can go from pleasure driving to beginning showing. I may upgrade later - I may not.

You stated that you would be getting harness made by Amish. I deal with Amish in OH and have gotten several harnesses of working (draft types) now. I am having some problems fitting one mare with a collar - she appears to be special, LOL. I have the Factory number now of the Coblenz Collar shop (where my collars were made) but haven't had the chance to call during their open hours. While at ASPC Congress, I was recommended by a family that deals with Draft type harness for theri ponies to call a company in Indiana - who will custom make collars in 1/4" increments to their sizes . Again, it is an Amish company and I havne't had a chance to call them yet. Probably be next week.

I know of one company that makes/builds ez entry type carts in OH that I am now having an "off brand" EZ entry type cart remade by. I'm switching out the axle w/ wheels/tires, changing the shafts from metal to wooden and having a single tree added. If I'd been thinking, I could have had the single tree lowered and then could have used a collar and hames while driving this cart. May try calling them on Monday to see if can still do that!! It is a cart that has been and will be pulled by my mini sized Shetlands (34 - 38" at the withers). The name of the company is Fairview Country Manufacturing and Willis and Merl are great gentlemen to deal with. I will have to find a catalong to give you the number, I had the catalog with me at Congress and haven't unloaded the truck yet. It's storming here right now - surprised we have power and I'm not going outside right now, LOL!!

Oh yes - my work harness(s) currently are biothane with "farm spots". My pony driving girlfriend got hers in betathane with no spots. The back pads on a work style harness aren't shaped like a GOOD saddle for a pleasure driving harness. You would either want to get one specially made to use with a cart or work with your harness maker on how to pad it "nicely". Most of the work harness have "rings" on the saddle/back pad that shaft carriers can be buckled or snapped into. I'm currently having a set of 4 harness (2 pairs) made in betathane w/ no spots that will fit the 4 (and more) mini shetlands. They will be ready when I go pick up our new wagon on August 31st! Can't wait.

Also, another man (Earnest Lambdin) had a different Amish company make his harness (In OH) for his two mini shetland ponies. Think his was made by Bowman's. HIs is a different style than mine but it is biothane and he showed his pair at Congress in it. You can check out pro pics on Casey McBride photos https://www.caseymcbridephotography.com/default.asp - click on the ASPC Congress Icon, go to Friday night and check out class number 385 - Classic Draft Harness, 2 pony hitch, 46" and under.

OOPS - power flicker - sending now before I lose modem!!

 

[~Dan]

Thank you for your input, Susanne, the Ozark Mountain Pleasure harness seems like the best option so far. I could always get a leather harness through the Amish as well, however I think it will eventually come down to price difference, and which is more affordable.

Thank you very mush, as well, for your input Paintponylvr. You certainly have given me some ideas as what I would like when my two minis are hitched as a team!! Now I have a question: What is a single tree?? Is it the " bar" that the tugs are attached to? I know next to nothing about carts, lol. I just started learning. I do know that I plan on getting my cart through the local Amish, I am hoping it is more cost effective.

Thanks again so much for all of the help and advice you all have given me. It is greatly appreciated by this newbie in New York.

Dan.

 

[~Dan]

*bump.

 

[Sue_C.]

What is a single tree?? Is it the " bar" that the tugs are attached to?

It is the bar that the traces are hooked to. there should be a strap on each side that limits the movement of this bar, but allow it to move back and fore just enough to take the "rub" out of the breastplate when the horse's shoulders move.

I highly recommend the little book by Doris Granton...Ummm...think it is called "Driving and training the Harness Horse", it has great pictures, and goes into a lot of detail.

 

[~Dan]

Thank you for explaining this Sue, that's what I figured it was, but wasn't sure.

I have another question. Is this "v" breast collar comparable to the one sold by the Carriage House? The link to the Ozark one below.

http://www.minitack.com/mw135.htm

I can't find a "V" breast collar for sale on The Carriage House website, I must not be looking in the right place then, I'll go look agan.

Thanks again for everyone's advice.

Dan.

 

[Sue_C.]

If you want the deep V breast collar, I suggest either Country Carriages USA, (Super V) or Camptown Harness. (Freedom collar/Comfy fit)

Mine is from Country Carriages, is betathane with waffle weave lining...love it!

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[Sue_C.]

Super V breast collar from Country Carriages is my choice...but the Freedom Collar/Comfy Collar from Camptown Harness or Chimacum Tack are both very nice as well.

 

[~Dan]

Thank you Sue, I was able to find them and their pricing on The Carriage House website. They are actually cheaper than the ones at Ozark. I will go with the Super V!

Dan.

 

[susanne]

Be sure to note that the Carriage House sells the neck straps separately...at an additional cost, I assume.