Cart too heavy?

[babygoose]

Since discovering driving with my full sized horse, I now have a good excuse to buy that mini that I have always wanted. Can’t ride it but I can drive it!!

Anyway, I have a mare on trial to see if she is suited for me. She is an oversized mini, (39â€) but I don’t plan on doing any breed showing initially, mostly Arena Driving Trials, maybe a CDE and just fun stuff. She comes with a cart and harness. The cart is great, steel with steel wheels, adjustable and removable shafts, very comfy ride, sturdy and well built. But it seems a little heavy. I estimate around 160-170 lbs based on what the shipping weights are on the dealer webpage. My weight adds another 155 lbs. I don’t worry about her being able to pull it, she is big enough and has no trouble. But now I know that I will not be stopping at one mini! I still want to stick with the “B†sized minis but might have something in the 37†range in the future. I am asking because the cart is brand new and very nice, but also expensive. It is worth the price, but if it not going to work for more than one mini I will have to buy another cart. I may have to anyway, but I thought I would do a little research.

Will this cart be too heavy for a smaller mini? I know a lot must depend on the individual mini, but is there any rule of thumb to go by? Is that on the heavy side for a VSE cart? Suggestions on a good sturdy cart that is lighter? Is it wishful thinking that I can use one cart for more than one mini? These carts are very adjustable since you can shorten and lengthen and rotate the shafts.

This mini stuff is a whole new world for me, but I am having a blast so far. Sometime down the line I want to get a pair of them to drive.

 

[Jill]

Welcome to the world of minis!

It started for me the same way pretty much -- I started driving my morgan cross and then thought how great it would be to go on and get a mini... years later, I still have that big horse and my other big horse but I cannot claim to ride or drive either of them at this point since I prefer the minis

About the cart, I do not think if it is BALANCED well it will be too heavy for a smaller mini. Others here may have more insight. I have a lot of driving horses but am not the most knowledgable person compared to some of the others who may be able to post here.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Hi! I have been driving an A-sized VSE in combined driving events for the last two years and weight is always an issue. I have a designed-for-CDE metal easy entry cart very much as you describe (all the adjustability, strength, etc.) which is about 110lbs with pneumatic tires. It is very well-balanced and once there's someone in it it feels light and hauls easily. But when there isn't someone in it the thing is a monster. My mom and I are small women and when I pick the shafts up off the ground to hitch up I want to say "oof." I watch the harness pad on the saddle initially squish until I get in. Ugh. But the overall weight isn't too bad even for my little guy. Yes he moves better with a lighter cart but he does quite nicely in this one and never hesitates to move out or go up and down hills.

I have picked up the shafts on wooden carts that weigh about the same amount and they feel much lighter in my hand even though they are the same to haul. So I think it depends a bit on the materials and the particular manufacturer. A "B" mini of any size will also have a lot more power than even the most forward "A" mini just by virtue of longer legs and more relative size. Steel wheels will add some weight and drag as well but are required at higher levels.

As a guideline, mini Meadowbrooks are usually about 150lbs and considered heavy for anything but a large mini (36-39"). Most people choose a road cart because it looks just as nice and is about 110lbs. I would certainly think you could use the same cart for a 39" and a 37" mini. Be aware that to compete VSE rather than in the small pony division your mare needs to measure at or under 39" at the withers, not at the last hairs of the mane as minis are measured.

Can you tell us what manufacturer you're looking at? I'm familiar with most of them at this point and might be able to guide you with help from the other CDE drivers here. The cart might not be as heavy as you think as in my limited experience with shipping a show cart the shipping weight listed on the manufacturer's website was 30lbs heavier than the cart's actual weight, again according to them.

You should also consider joining the MiniHorseDriving list on Yahoo if you haven't already. A lot of the people from here are on there too and there are many discussions of exactly this kind of issue.

Leia

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Leia, thanks for the yahoo group driving idea. I have gone to join--never heard of it before!

Babygoose, welcome to miniatures! They are so much fun!

I have a jerald runabout. It seems heavy for me to tote and lift, but my 28 3/4 mini has no trouble with it, plus two adults, on a the road (it has pnuematic tires). I think the rule of thumb is a mini can take 1/3 of its body weight on its back, but can pull three times its weight.

 

[babygoose]

Here is a link to the webpage

http://eazyryder.com/products/products%20home%20frame.htm

I would link a picture of us driving, but I can't seem to get into the photo hosting site. I'll try again later.

They don't show an exact example of the cart I have. I have the mini cart, but it has the optional steel wheels and also has a spares box and brush guards added. They are removable, but I'm not sure how much weight they actually add. I am trying to stay away from anything with pneumatic wheels and I would rather have metal vs wood because of the up keep. But quality is important to me. I would like to find something less expensive, but not as a trade off for safety or durability.

These are very nice carts. I have one for my full sized horse and I love it. They are very well balanced also.

I am actually taking a chance with her height as she is about 39 1/4 at the withers. The ADT's I will be going to are local stuff and she will be able to go in VSE. It all depends for the CDE. I have talked to people who have competed in the CDE's I would be going to and have never been measured. Since I will most likely be using my big horse for CDE's, I'm not sure I'll even get to one with the mini in the near future. I don't see me ever going to a bigger event, they are too far away and gas is too expensive!

But all the more reason to eventually get one that is smaller. I have honestly been really torn over this because she is so close to the height limit. But she is a great little horse, and at this point just driving a mini around for fun is more of what I will be doing than serious competition.

 

[babygoose]

Here is a link to a better picture. I have the metal cart with the optional steel wheels and the hydraulic shocks.

http://home.earthlink.net/~carriagebarnws/MINICARTS.htm

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Here is a link to the webpage
http://eazyryder.com/products/products%20home%20frame.htm

Heh, yeah, I thought that might be the cart you meant. You'll be fine, the EZ Ryder carts have a good reputation.

I am actually taking a chance with her height as she is about 39 1/4 at the withers. The ADT's I will be going to are local stuff and she will be able to go in VSE. It all depends for the CDE. I have talked to people who have competed in the CDE's I would be going to and have never been measured. Since I will most likely be using my big horse for CDE's, I'm not sure I'll even get to one with the mini in the near future. I don't see me ever going to a bigger event, they are too far away and gas is too expensive!
But all the more reason to eventually get one that is smaller. I have honestly been really torn over this because she is so close to the height limit. But she is a great little horse, and at this point just driving a mini around for fun is more of what I will be doing than serious competition.

I've never been measured at any of our events either. One thing to consider though is the spirit of the rule. If your horse is really pony-sized with pony-movement (i.e. long stride), it's sort of unfair to go in the VSE division where you put the smaller minis who can't go anywhere else at a serious disadvantage.

: On the other hand, that makes it even sweeter when the little guys win! LOL. And they do quite often.

: I think it's that faster turn radius; they make up for the longer legs by faster acceleration in small spaces or something.

:

You may also have a problem with the 20x40 VSE ring feeling too small; we have a lot of larger minis here and their drivers complain that there's no room for them to make transitions and that before they're properly out of one corner they've already missed A. Then again I got rather lost in the larger 30x60 ring size they tried that was perfect for the B minis so no matter what someone's not going to be happy! At an ADT having a larger mini will definitely be an advantage as you usually use the same size ring for everything as the big horses do. No matter what I'm sure you'll enjoy driving your girl and I wish you the best of luck with her and with your competitions. Please post pictures whenever you get the chance, we'd love to see her.

Leia

 

[Margo_C-T]

Lisa, I would consider a 160 lb. cart much heavier than what I'd want for ANY mini. I actually had a lovely and very authentic wooden-wheeled miniature Meadowbrook, but sold it because I realized it was really just too heavy, and it probably weighed around 150 lbs. In my opinion and experience(and I have researched this EXTENSIVELY!), I would not want to go over 110-120 lbs. in weight of the vehicle and its options. I REALLY like my Bennington, from England-it weighs around 110 lbs.(it was shipped inside a metal framework; total weight of the entire 'package' was 142 lbs. + or -, so I consider the stated cart weight to be quite accurate.) Bellcrown, another English maker, also builds a very nice cart; their "Shetland Star"or the even-smaller "Minicrown" would be about right for the size horse you have(who, BTW, is a near-twin of my B mare, according to the photos you sent me; my apologies for not acknowledging them before this!!)-actually, for 37-39" horses, the "Shetland Star" would likely be the best choice. Both companys' carts are standard with steel wheels with rubber 'on the ground'. It is the shipping which makes these carts 'expensive'; however, I found it not to be that much of a deal, when comparing to the Eazy Ryders, which I also researched extensively. A Roswell acquaintance who does CDEs with B-sized minis returned an Eazy Ryder, mainly due to the weight issue. Another option would be a good wooden road cart, such as the one I got from John Stoltzfus at Pequea Carriage in PA; it is sturdy, pulls well, looks great, and weight is around 110 lbs.;mine has 22' wooden wheels-I ordered it before I got the B sized mare, and the shafts are really too short for her, at 48"; around 52-54" shafts would be better for her. This cart can be ordered with the shaft length and wheel diameter you wish; just remember that when ordering wooden wheels, the measurement is made WITHOUT the rubber wheel inserts, which add to the diameter!

Proper balance IS very important; most 'better' carts have adjustable seats, so as to be able to adjust the 'balance point'-AND, most WILL feel noticably heavier at the tug loop point of the shafts when empty, whereas when the usual and customary 'load' is in the cart, there should be little to no weight actually being 'carried' in the tug loops. I do believe that it is a VERY good idea to 'go for' the quality, proven product when buying a driving vehicle-I personally have recently encountered two instances where an individual bought, for a few dollars less, what were essentially 'knock-offs' of a couple of well-known brands-one an everyday, training type of mini easy entry cart, the other, a national brand of mini show cart. In both cases, these vehicles have turned out to have SERIOUS drawbacks that have adversely affected the comfort and performance of the individual's horses--in my observation and opinion, absolutely NOT WORTH THE 'SAVINGS' in the purchase price, as reflected by the horses' reactions!!

I have to add that many people who have miniatures seem unaware of the usual and accepted guidelines about how much weight a horse should be asked to pull! I would agree TO A POINT with the popular notion(not scientifically proven)among many owners of miniature horses that the horses are 'tougher' and 'stronger', pound for pound, that other breeds-but I find that OFTEN, these folks are misguided in their estimations of what the horses should reasonably be expected to pull. Seldom if EVER would you see it suggested among 'big horse' breeds that any horse be asked to pull anything more than twice it's own weight, IF that. In my opinion and experience, weight IS an important issue with miniatures, and should be carefully and compassionately considered, in every circumstance.

There is one local person who does have a mini Eazy Ryder, which I have seen. It appears to have several nice features, but I, personally, would be leery of a weight of over 120 lbs.

JMHO; best wishes in your quest!

Margo

 

[Marsha Cassada]

What would your objection to pnuematic wheels be? I don't have a wide experience, so wheel type discussion interests me. I have had my cart with "bicycle wheels" for 4 years. We drive on gravel roads, thorugh pastures (which includes goathead stickers and mesquite thorns), in plowed arenas, and on pavement. I use the heavy duty tubes with green slime in them and I have never had a flat.

Marsha

 

[babygoose]

I have heard that the bicycle type wheels are more prone to collapse if you are doing events like ADTs and CDEs due to the sharp turns and such. I have never seen it happen, but most of my limited driving experience is with such events and almost all the carts I see have steel or wood wheels. Actually. the majority of the carts I've see are actually 4 wheeled. Apparently that is the way to go for CDE's. some other folks with more experience might chime in on the bicycle type wheel question.

I have considered weather it is actually fair to compete her in VSE. But she is closer to VSE than pony :bgrin . I figure at my still beginning level of driving, I'm not much competition anyway! :lol: But I know several minis are in my future, and the next ones I get will be in the 37"-38" range. By then my big horse will be at retirement age and I can compete the minis exclusively!

Margo, I LIKE the looks of that Bennigton. I went to their webpage. I might have to look into those. I have been searching the internet and most of the mini carts I find have the bicycle type wheels.

 

[SkipsMom]

I have the mini show/pleasure cart from this company and an Easy Entry entry on order from them: http://www.ccfdriving.cjb.net/ I went w/ wooden wheels on both carts because CDE's are on my radar screen down the road w/ my two mini's- a 35" and a 32". The carts are made to order for your mini. The balance is nice, the craftsmanship and detail excellent. My 35" guy has no problem pulling his show/pleasure cart in row crop fields or on a smooth surface. The 32" guy is getting the EZ entry cart because it will be his training and "grown up" cart too.

It was given an A++ at a weekend of driving lessons I had this spring by an National level competitor and trainer.

Good luck in your search!

 

[babygoose]

I have the mini show/pleasure cart from this company and an Easy Entry entry on order from them: http://www.ccfdriving.cjb.net/ I went w/ wooden wheels on both carts because CDE's are on my radar screen down the road w/ my two mini's- a 35" and a 32".

How is the ride in these carts? How much does your cart weigh? They look like they are worth looking into further. I'm sure glad I have some time off from work this next week to devote to looking around some more on the internet.

By the way. Here are a couple links to pics of the mini I have on trial. Her name is Maggie Mae.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Bab.../Picture006.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Bab...ie/MVC-004F.jpg

 

[SkipsMom]

What a darling mini Miss Maggie is!! Good luck w/ her. Is the cart in the photo a Pacific something cart?? A couple weeks ago a friend took me driving in her Pacific something marathon cart (I swear it is a bigger version of what the mini is pulling) pulled by her Anglo/Arab. It was a fabulous, fabulous, smooth, agile ride no matter what gait or terrian we were driving over.

I have found the ride in the SPF carts to be very comfortable. I bought my first one based on the web site photos and had never seen one in person- maybe not the brightest way but I had done oodles of reasearch. Seeing as she is in the north east and I'm in Kansas it was a perhaps a risk but it paid off and I have no regrets at all.

Notice the suspension system in the photos- the big springs, it keeps the ride in the basket smooth. The cart is adveritzed to weigh just over 100#. I'm 5'3" and have plenty of leg room in the basket and seat is comfortable. In the show pleasure/cart the shafts are part of the cart frame, not interchangeable, so it is only going to work on "X" size mini- the size you order it for. With her Easy Entry style the shafts are removeable so within reason (size of the wheel) it may be used w/ other mini's. Pam at SPF is very knowledgeable and so helpful with any questions or concerns. She provides an excellent product and the icing on the cake is her personal service.

I was driving in a Christmas parade last year and a gentlemen driving a mini in an identical cart came up and asked me if mine was from a Stockly (can't quite remember the name) in PA. I said no, I got it from SPF but it could be contracted out to the same guy.

With the Easy Entry cart I opted to have the extra slats put on the rear and forgo the spares box figuring if my second mini makes it to CDE's I'll get a darling basket or something for spares. My Easy Entry should arrive towards the end of this month. They arrive unassembled but are easy enough to put together.

Go here and click on the Mini's album. Some of the shots are up close enough to allow you to see the cart details. In the beginning I was using a basic pleasure harness but I upgraded to a betathane, heavier duty harness over the winter. You can tell by looking which is which. The betathane is nice, mostly, but it does not drape or conform to the mini's body as well. I'm not sure I would get another betathane product. http://community.webshots.com/user/watsonpippin

Good luck!

 

[hobbyhorse23]

AAAAH-HA! Now I know who you are, SkipsMom! :saludando: I know you by a different name on the minihorsedriving list.

I have heard that the bicycle type wheels are more prone to collapse if you are doing events like ADTs and CDEs due to the sharp turns and such.

Well it's only logical that thin metal spokes will be much more fragile then big thick steel ones, but on the other hand the pneumatic tires on horse carts are specially designed for driving and are very different from bicycle tires. They have much wider hubs so that the spokes angle downwards in a way that helps them bear side-loading and sharp turns. And I'd worry more with a big horse cart with long spokes then with a 20" wheel that is small and compact. In my experience what you worry about most with pneumatics is flats and blowouts although "tacoing" is also a concern. But then again, I saw a big horse withdraw during the marathon at the last CDE because the rubber strip on her wooden wheel had come off in the middle of a hazard and she was walking back to base camp with her navigator holding the rubber strip dangling off the back of the cart. It was rather pathetic to see! Good maintenance and having a quality wheel to begin with are the most important things I think, not the wheel type.

Margo, I LIKE the looks of that Bennington. I went to their webpage. I might have to look into those. I have been searching the internet and most of the mini carts I find have the bicycle type wheels.

Only a few specialty manufacturers cater to the ADS mini folk who want steel wheels. Pneumatics are fine for what most people do with the minis and so pneumatics are the standard wheel offered.

I've seen several of the Silver Penny Farms carts now and feel confident in my decision that when I get a wooden vehicle it will be from them. I've talked to Pam myself and agree that their customer service is excellent. The shipping and purchase prices are both reasonable, the carts are nice, and so are the people. What more could you want?

Leia

Edited to add: Oh, forgot to say I also think Maggie is adorable! That first picture looks like you're all set to compete already from cart to harness.

:

 

[SkipsMom]

Yes Leia, it is I. :bgrin I wandered over here back on whatever the "join" date is on my profile when I was beginning my search for mini's, hence the different name. I had the excellent fortune to hook up w/ the Fords in Fayetteville, AK and purchase a 3 year old driving mini from the offerings of their down sizing group. Pam is such a great horsewoman she knew which one would be best suited for my wants. Once down there we were smitten w/ some weanlings she was offering and bought one "just because". That guy just turned 3 and the second cart is his.

I have no doubt that if you select a SPF wooden cart you will be as pleased with it as I have been with mine. While taking some driving lessons up in Iowa back in the spring I was enjoying looking at all the full size horse and pony carts at the facility. The SPF carts are indeed just little versions of what the big guys toodle around with behind them.

:

 

[babygoose]

What a darling mini Miss Maggie is!! Good luck w/ her. Is the cart in the photo a Pacific something cart?? A couple weeks ago a friend took me driving in her Pacific something marathon cart (I swear it is a bigger version of what the mini is pulling) pulled by her Anglo/Arab. It was a fabulous, fabulous, smooth, agile ride no matter what gait or terrian we were driving over.

Thanks! She is very sweet. The cart in the pics is the Eazy Ryder that I am trying to decide if I want to buy as a package along with Maggie, who is currently on trial with me. I have decided to go ahead and buy Maggie and her harness, but not sure if I want to buy the cart since it is kind of heavy. The Eazy Ryders do look alot like Pacific carriages.