Can I see pic's Of your mares with High Tail Sets

[BM Miniatures]

Thanks all!

 

[nootka]

My five year old mare, Lailah

--ok, since I thought about it, here is a not so good pic of her prancing around the pasture as a two year old:

(she raises and flags her tail, flares her nostrils whenever she feels there is something "exciting" or she may get some admiration. Kinda fun to watch, I admire her a lot.)

(I didn't realize how much she reminds me of Dona's Missy, now that I look at the pics she posted)

Her yearling daughter, Lark.

This is Lark as a weanling, you can see her tailset is nice (at least I think so).

Most times a low tailset seems to be matched w/a weak hip, but NOT ALWAYS. Often a lower tailset will give the appearance of a weak hip, but I'd rather a low tailset than a weak or shallow hip.

Anyway, to me tailset is an "aesthetic" as it generally doesn't affect a horse's soundness or way of going, it is merely more pleasing in most cases to have it higher rather than lower but again some breeds naturally have this and they look very beautiful/fine with it, it's sort of a "wannabe" Arabian thing.

There can also be a happy medium.

Hope this helps!

Liz M.

 

[BM Miniatures]

Wow, they are gorgeous!

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[Becky]

My mare, East Acres Stary Night, has a very level topline. The flattest I've seen in a miniature.

 

[kaykay]

heres tiny she got this great tailset from her sire magic mans red rocket. he puts that on every foal

cant see as well in this one but this is another rocket daughter and even at a day old her tail is right on top. These two are FULL sisters

 

[Frankie]

Liz,

I agree,,

: ,,,,Lailah is a wonderful example!!! She doesn't even need to stick that tail up to see it's a great tail set.

 

[BallynoeBaby]

They are gorgeous really pretty mares. :new_shocked: :lol: :new_shocked:

 

[Dona]

Here is my Missy, who had a lovely high tailset, and passed it to each & every one of her foals. God bless her...we lost her last year at age 20.

Here is one of Missy's daughters "Deja Vu"

Another Missy daughter "Tickle My Fancy"

Another daughter, "Hot Tamale"

And can't leave out the boys...here's "Kickapoo's Nickelodeon"

and "Kickapoo's Braveheart"

And this is "Kickapoo's Born to Boogie"

BTW....All except for the last one (Boogie) are FULL siblings....all sired by Hemlock Brooks Cock Robin. So gotta give him some credit too!

:

 

[wpsellwood]

Firewaters Buck Bejewel I think she has a nice tailset. She was 3rd this year at the World show in open weanling mares 26-30

 

[Miniequine]

Dona, I think you win! Nootka too! wow :bgrin

This pic doesn't really show it well, but Summer always

looks like she has a 'pony tail' LOL

She was wet in this pic.. I think she was tucking it , maybe..

 

[miniwhinny]

High tail sets and flat top lines are a pet peeve of mine. I won't breed for them or purchase horses with what I consider to be a genetic deformity :new_shocked: Seriously though it's simple mechanics of the horses skeletal system. High tail sets are something man has chosen to breed for and not something that occurs in a mechanically sound horse. Check out wild horses...everything from the Persian Wild Asses to British pony breeds to re-bred Tarpans, Zebras, Spanish Mustangs, Portuguese Sorraia's, True African Barbs etc...check out the worlds old breeds..even the Arab until recently had medium to low tail sets. This allows the horse to flex his hind legs well under himself for hill work and fast on a dime spins. Today's Arabs look like a freak of nature (IMO) there are some near me with butts higher than the rest of their bodies

: . The old world Barb/Spanish conformation...which gave us almost all of today's modern American breeds is the ultimate conformation for horse soundness and survival. The millions of Spanish mustangs once roaming the American plains did so without genetic faults which is why they were so successful. When breeding for any trait be sure you know what the results are beyond the visual appearance. Man has a tendency to breed for traits not necessarily benefiting the animal. Most Spanish breeds are unable to flag their tails simple because their spines curve over their hips and are not flat on the top. This is just my opinion (so dont get upset) I'm very much into appreciating what nature can create. I also don't clip the hair in my horses ears or on their muzzle 'cus it's there for a reason too

:

Dr. Bennett

SM conformation

SM lines

Barb

 

[Aubrey715]

Here are a couple of our mares with High Tail sets

The first one is of Gander Hill Chantilly Lace "Lilly", a two year old mare. She has a really high tail set with a very level topline. She has one of the levelest toplines i have ever seen.

Here is a picture of her as a yearling

Then here is another mare, Bite Size En Vogue. She has a high tail set with a level topline as well.

 

[Dona]

High tail sets and flat top lines are a pet peeve of mine. I won't breed for them or purchase horses with what I consider to be a genetic deformity :new_shocked: Seriously though it's simple mechanics of the horses skeletal system. High tail sets are something man has chosen to breed for and not something that occurs in a mechanically sound horse. Check out wild horses...everything from the Persian Wild Asses to British pony breeds to re-bred Tarpans, Zebras, Spanish Mustangs, Portuguese Sorraia's, True African Barbs etc...check out the worlds old breeds..even the Arab until recently had medium to low tail sets. This allows the horse to flex his hind legs well under himself for hill work and fast on a dime spins. Today's Arabs look like a freak of nature (IMO) there are some near me with butts higher than the rest of their bodies

: . The old world Barb/Spanish conformation...which gave us almost all of today's modern American breeds is the ultimate conformation for horse soundness and survival. The millions of Spanish mustangs once roaming the American plains did so without genetic faults which is why they were so successful. When breeding for any trait be sure you know what the results are beyond the visual appearance. Man has a tendency to breed for traits not necessarily benefiting the animal. Most Spanish breeds are unable to flag their tails simple because their spines curve over their hips and are not flat on the top. This is just my opinion (so dont get upset) I'm very much into appreciating what nature can create. I also don't clip the hair in my horses ears or on their muzzle 'cus it's there for a reason too

:

Dr. Bennett

SM conformation

SM lines

Barb

First of all....I'm not upset by your post.

I respect your opinion, as I feel everyone has a right to their own opinions.

: But I do disagree with your statement that horses with high tailsets and/or flatter toplines are a result of a "genetic deformity". You are slamming ENTIRE breeds with that statement.

As with most animals....different breeds can have varying "builds". Yes, these are generally bred into animals over the years....just as prettier heads, different coloring, heavier builds, lighter builds, shorter backs, longer necks, and yes...higher tailsets. But, in no way, do I consider these different "looks" to be genetic "faults". I have seen & owned big & small horses with high tailsets who were wonderful performance horses. Their high tailsets didn't seem to inhibit them at all...and added to their beauty, IMO.

Different breeds look different...but all are beautiful in their own ways. For instance, a Draft horse has a very thick neck & roman nose facial profile....but that is NOT a "fault"...it is a characteristic of the breed.

Arabians have shorter backs, dished heads are common, and high tailsets...but those are NOT faults either...they are characteristics of the breed.

Our minis are unique in that they are a combination of many different horse "looks". Some look like little draft horses, some look like muscular quarterhorses, some look like refined Arabians, some may even look like some Spanish breeds & be unable to flag their tails. But either way, I don't see it as a "genetic deformity" just different builds. And different builds are sometimes better suited to perform different tasks. Such has horses with lower tailset "usually" make good driving horses, as they can better get under themselves to propel. BUT....I've seen many horses with high tailsets perform wonderfully as well, and some with lower tailsets not do so well.

Remember, Miniatures themselves...are a result of selective breeding for certain qualities....mainly, SIZE. Their small size is not normal "created in nature", but created by human intervention. Food for thought.

:

 

[miniwhinny]

Good points Dona (and by the way...99.999% of your horses are to die for). I agree on most. I do however like my animals to resemble what nature would create and almost all non man made breeds have sloping croups and middle to low tail sets. Yes there are breed differences but that mostly comes once a breed is man made. Based on that...I'd never buy a dog with it's tail cut off (docked) or an American Doby or Great Dane with ears sliced down the middle and reattached so they stick upright not because I don't think they are lovely dogs but because I refuse to contribute to animal mutilation. I'd never declaw a cat as it's not just declawing but amputation of the last bone etc. Guess my years (and years and years) of studying wild horses has given me an appreciation of a nice rounded croup

: And I am glad that mini's are so varied. I'd just hate for them to change too much from the original Celtic Iberian conformation they mostly started with.

Hey your last comment sparked my interest though...our mini's really aren't that much smaller or different than the Scottish Shetlands from whom they descend. Scottish Shetlands ( I always thought) were small because only the smallest could survive the harsh environment they came from, please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Dona]

Good points Dona (and by the way...99.999% of your horses are to die for). I agree on most. I do however like my animals to resemble what nature would create and almost all non man made breeds have sloping croups and middle to low tail sets. Yes there are breed differences but that mostly comes once a breed is man made. Based on that...I'd never buy a dog with it's tail cut off (docked) or an American Doby or Great Dane with ears sliced down the middle and reattached so they stick upright not because I don't think they are lovely dogs but because I refuse to contribute to animal mutilation. I'd never declaw a cat as it's not just declawing but amputation of the last bone etc. Guess my years (and years and years) of studying wild horses has given me an appreciation of a nice rounded croup

: And I am glad that mini's are so varied. I'd just hate for them to change too much from the original Celtic Iberian conformation they mostly started with.

Hey your last comment sparked my interest though...our mini's really aren't that much smaller or different than the Scottish Shetlands from whom they descend. Scottish Shetlands ( I always thought) were small because only the smallest could survive the harsh environment they came from, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thank you for your comment on my Miniatures. You may be right in the taller Miniatures not being "that much smaller" than the Scottish Shetlands. And of course, all Miniatures have decsended from Shetlands, ponies, or small horses. But the Minis of today have been extensively bred down over many decades to what we see in the show ring now.....some even under 28". So, yes, I believe they are a man-made breed. Don't think they would have gotten that small without "man's" intervention.

 

[Margaret]

Here is a mare of mine over streched of course, and please forgive the unprofessional setting, but she does seem to have a good tail carriage. She is one of my most powerful movers, (a drivers dream) so it does not hinder her ability to move.

Miniwhinny; I too have heard similar opinions on the high tail set issue. One from a life time big horse owner, and one from a "large horse breed judge." So I know that there is something to that.

:

The person I bought this mare from "was" that judge, :new_shocked: and when I asked her about this mares tail set, before I purchased her, she educated me on it. :lol: insted of giving it credence.

:

Anyway,as all turned out I was surprised to find out that she can really move, and also happened to have a "show acceptable" set. :lol:

 

[Minimor]

I personally like level toplines and high tailsets; certainly those traits do not make a horse mechanically unsound. They do not ruin movement, provided that the level topline includes a long hip.

Some breeders have taken it too far, though--not in Miniatures, at least I have not yet seen this trait in any miniature either in person or in photos--in an effort to make the topline flatter, they have bred for a shorter hip. When level topline includes a hip that is very short, you get the topline angling upward from loin to dock of tail--the dock of tail is actually the highest point on the horse's topline. And yes, in these horses, movement is definitely compromised. The horse becomes unable to stride under itself, and its legs just work up and down behind it. I see this a lot in the Morgan breed. I would like to post photos to show an example, but I cannot for the horses are not mine--we did not follow that conformation trend with our Morgans!

There is a definite difference between a topline being level, and one that is "too level"....if that's really the correct term, since the ones I refer to as too level are actually sloping upwards to the top of the tail.

 

[miniwhinny]

Some breeders have taken it too far, though--not in Miniatures, at least I have not yet seen this trait in any miniature either in person or in photos--in an effort to make the topline flatter, they have bred for a shorter hip. When level topline includes a hip that is very short, you get the topline angling upward from loin to dock of tail--the dock of tail is actually the highest point on the horse's topline. And yes, in these horses, movement is definitely compromised. The horse becomes unable to stride under itself, and its legs just work up and down behind it. I see this a lot in the Morgan breed. I would like to post photos to show an example, but I cannot for the horses are not mine--we did not follow that conformation trend with our Morgans!

There is a definite difference between a topline being level, and one that is "too level"....if that's really the correct term, since the ones I refer to as too level are actually sloping upwards to the top of the tail.

Thank you I think this is the point I was trying to make. "Normal" level top lines don't impede or detract from the horse but my fear is when people take things too far. Like I said earlier, there is a large Arab breeder just down the road from me with exaactly that look you just described. Very small hips and a tail dock sticking right up in the air. Just not attractive (IMO) at all. I just hope just as with any trait we breed in to our horses that we can keep not just the "look" but also the reasons behind the look in mind. It does seem from reading this board for the past 2 years that many mini folks are sensible, caring people who truely love the breed as a whole.