Breaking the sac

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I didn't want to hijack the thread regarding the horrible dystocia - but I was curious as to when everyone else breaks the sac.

I don't mean this as vet advice or what anyone should take as gospel - just curious as to what some of the others out there do.

Here, I don't routinely break it, unless I have the head/neck clear (both front feet - basically a normal delivery) and it hasn't broken on its own. Once I know I can deliver without having to go back in to reposition or that the foal can be breathing air I will though. I would break it if I suspected the placenta had separated but that is hard to judge and if you have a dystocia with a separated placenta you are likely to have a dead foal anyway.

I have even waited until the hips are cleared just to be sure - but don't like to as I worry about the placenta having separated and the foal suffocating/drowning.

We've had a number of dystocias here over the years - head back(strangled by cord), breech, dog sitting, upside down dog sitting, upside down, one front back, three legs presenting, etc.

My main reason for not wanting to break the sac is once that water expels the uterus starts shrink-wrapping down around the foal and gives you less space to work with (why vets add fluid/lube back in). If I have to be fighting a mares contractions, and repositioning in a very tight space, I want all the extra room I can get! We really try to keep a mare up and on a slight incline - get gravity to assist while repositioning - to me its much easier on my feet than on the ground!

But with the one leg back issue - I had two mares present like this a few years ago. We made the call to the vet, but the first one had already pushed the head/neck and one leg out. So we had gasping foal and no option of pushing back in. I lubed him with almost a whole jar of vaseline (we keep unopened ones in the foaling kit) at the shoulder and as far in as I could reach (I mean big handfuls of goop) while supporting head and the other leg and keeping mom on her feet to slow contractions. We then let her go down she rolled sideways once then pushed him out. Surprisingly with very little blood/swelling from the effort.

The other mare the sac hadn't broken, so we lubed her up really well, kept her on her feet and delivered him/broke the sac as the shoulder/leg that was back passed. It was easier to deliver this one although it felt like working through a waterballoon! We let her go down with the foal once he was out - placenta was still in. This is not a one person thing though.

Anyway, if I have vets here or the mare at the vets for a dystocia - its a moot point as to when to break as they can add lube or c-section, etc. as needed.

So what does everyone else do?

 

[WeeOkie]

Well, here I go in pretty fast. If something is protruding and it does not look right, I immediately break the sac and go looking. I just don't see how I could find anything or reposition if I was on the outside of the sac. Also, in a normal delivery, when I can see both feet then the little nose, I go ahead and break it so baby can breathe, and gently help on contractions and get the foal out.

I've done it this way for years, and so far it has worked for me,

Rita

 

[Miniv]

This has come up before, I think.......but it's a good subject. In my opinion, every situation can be a little different.

For a normal MINI birth, the sac doesn't always break quickly or at all, so being present is IMPERATIVE. As soon as the head and shoulders are out, with a proper presentation, we break the sac, if it hasn't been done naturally.

Sometimes the foal pops out so quickly that we don't get the sac broken until the whole baby is out.

And with a Red Bag birth we tear everything open as soon as possible as the foal begins appearing.

If there's a distocia, and the foal is partly out, we still tend to tear the sac, dip ourselves with iodine and goop and go in........even if it means having to push the foal back in to rearrange. As long as the umbilical cord is still attached (God willing) the foal is still receiving oxygen for a short time.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

Well, here I go in pretty fast. If something is protruding and it does not look right, I immediately break the sac and go looking. I just don't see how I could find anything or reposition if I was on the outside of the sac. Also, in a normal delivery, when I can see both feet then the little nose, I go ahead and break it so baby can breathe, and gently help on contractions and get the foal out.

I've done it this way for years, and so far it has worked for me,

Rita

Ditto here. As soon as I have a nose and two feet, I break it.

Lucy

 

[Mona]

This is something I have always not understood. When I have had foaling problems...like when a mare is in labor and has the white membrane hanging from her, but no foal can be seen (I am referring to both a late term abortion as well as a full term labor) when you "go in" to feel for the position of the foal, to try and figure out what the problem is, do you break ANY bag?? I never have, and I am always unable to explain to my vet what I am feeling in there, because I really don't know. Then I am not sure if I read it here, or if my vet told me, the bag should be broken in the mare so you can feel the position of the foal more easily, to determine how they are positioned. So this I am speaking of dystocia/mal-positioned foals only, and not ones that are part way out as in a normal delivery. For those, I wait until they are pretty much all the way out to break the membrane from their face. So anyway, I have never broke the bag while the foal is entirely still up in the mare, fearing doing so would somehow drown it, but maybe I should be to better understand what the problem is???

 

[Robin1]

My vet always says to break the bag. You can't tell anything through the sac.

Robin

 

[backwoodsnanny]

With normal presentation our vet has said to wait for the nose and front legs and crown of the head then break the sack that is so that baby wont be sucked back I think. I assume for dystocia he would recommend to break the sac to feel what is presenting but with a dystocia we would have him on the phone anyway. .

 

[Viki]

I do the same as Rita. And, with the sack broken, I can get a lot better grip on those little legs to pull!

Viki

 

[bingo]

I have been told by vets the foal cannot and will not take a breath until the rib cage passes thru the birth canal so it cannot drown if you break the sac while trying to reposition.

 

[Magic]

I've broken the sac with the foal entirely still inside the mare, in order to get hold of a leg that is back, for example, and the foal was fine. There is just no way I would be able to find and pull up a leg with it still in the sac. As Bingo said, the foal is still getting its oxygen from its dam until its ribcage clears the mare.

Many times I break the sac as soon as I see the bubble, so I can check that everything is coming in order (foot, foot, nose), because the sooner I know if something is NOT right, the sooner I can start working to reposition.

 

[wwminis]

My vet always says to break the bag. You can't tell anything through the sac.

Robin

[SIZE=14pt]Ditto, the same as Robin here![/SIZE]

Bill

 

[minih]

I have been told by my vet to leave the bag in tact if at all possible until the shoulders are thru and there is no chance of the foal going back in. If it is needing a little extra help, like with a maiden mare and being a little tight, I always keep a clean small towel in the foaling box. My vet told me to use that holding the legs inside the sack and there is less chance of tearing the sack until I am ready to tear it. We had to do this and pull a foal that was a turned to the side last year, got the shoulders thru and tore open the bag while mom caught her breathe, it was a very tight fit getting him out. The year before tho we had one I had to go in and pull a leg forward that was back, the sack had already broke on it's own, everything was fine. I don't know I just try to do what feels right at the time. You learn things in a hurry when you can not get a vet to come when needed.

 

[Donna S]

This is very interesting. My first year foaling this spring, and my first was dystocia. I was alone in the barn, everything was ok, but then the third leg appeared laying on the foals back. It was stuck. I lubed with vaseline, tried everything I could not budge the filly. I could not turn the foal or anything. I callled the vet and by the time the vet got there she had expelled it by herself. Of course I lost the filly, but at least my mare pulled thru. It was an ugly situation for the first one. I sure hope all goes well with my other two.