Okay, I've been working with one of my geldings for about a year now in driving, mostly around the house, but he's been to a couple of local shows and done well. I'd like to show him more in driving in 2012 and eventually try a CDE since there is a competition in my state. But, I'm having a hard time getting him to bend into his turns while hitched. When line driving he gets it, his head turns slightly and he steps up into his tracks, but in the cart he starts off nicely but often loses his forward motion half way through and tries to side step to the inside of the circle. Any ideas for what I have to do to correct this?
Bending Into Turns
- Thread starter Sungold
- Start date
Help Support Miniature Horse Talk Forums:
Minimor
Well-Known Member
The biggest thing, I think, is you have to keep that forward momentum. If it were me, and I couldn't keep him going forward through the turn (cluck or tap him up with the whip) I would straighten him up, forget about turning, and get him moving forward well, and then ask for the turn/bend again. Keep the turns wide and the circles large until he does those well, then you can start to reduce the size of your circles and make your turns less gradual.
I do teach mine to turn both ways (proper bending and the sidestepping turn) but when I want the horse to swing around in a tight turn that will have him sidestepping my cues are different than if I want a smaller circle with a good bend.
I do teach mine to turn both ways (proper bending and the sidestepping turn) but when I want the horse to swing around in a tight turn that will have him sidestepping my cues are different than if I want a smaller circle with a good bend.
hobbyhorse23
Well-Known Member
Good points from Minimor. Let's start with your equipment and your horse. First of all, how old is he and how often have you been driving him? A young horse or one who is out of shape (and especially one who is both!) will have a hard time balancing through a corner and may need to be shown how to manage the cart. Secondly, do you have a picture of your horse harnessed up and preferably making a turn? An unbalanced cart, one with shafts that are too long or especially shafts that are too narrow will make it very difficult for your horse. If he can't physically move his hip and ribcage over, he can't bend and will be forced to sidestep. If the shaft tip is poking him in the shoulder he may also lose forward momentum and once he's dropped to a walk again he gets confident enough to step over into it.
Assuming your equipment is not causing the problem and he's physically fit enough to do what you're asking, go back to basics. The goal in bending is to have the horse's body form an arc from his nose to his tail along the line of travel, coming up through the poll and stepping under himself with his inside hind leg. His nose tipping to the inside is only a side effect of real bending which takes place in the ribcage. When you ask the horse to give with his nose you want him to soften his jaw and come up into the bridle. When he does this it should cause a chain reaction- he softens his jaw, gives at the poll, raises the root of his neck, frees his shoulder, lifts his ribcage and lets his hind leg swing further forward. When this happens his energy should be collected and recycled through his body. Somewhere in this process it sounds like you've taken a wrong turn and his energy is dumping out the front. The most likely reason for this to happen is that you're asking for him to give his nose and then expecting him to follow it but not pushing him up into the bridle and helping him find the power to do so. He has to be driven from back to front! FIRST the forward energy, THEN the give in the jaw, THEN the physical turn.
Make sure you go back to long-lines for these lessons and don't proceed to cart work until he really understands them. When you do hitch, do everything at a walk and quit when he does it right! Come back and work on trot another day when he's had time to rest and think about it. If he can't do it at a walk, he sure as heck won't be able to do it going faster.
The other part of this equation is your hands. As Minimor said, there are different cues for asking a horse to sidestep through a turn versus bending through one. To get a bend you want to half-halt on the inside rein to ask the horse to give his jaw, set up the bend, then allow the turn with your outside rein. The outside rein must continue to support the horse and dictate the size of the turn- it can't just be loose while you pull on the inside rein. Think of it as a supporting leg against the horse's ribcage, showing him how far over he can move. If you're only pulling on the inside rein the horse will either stop in confusion when the shafts start pushing into him or he'll do the only other thing he can figure out, which is sidestepping over following the pressure. If your horse is not used to feeling contact on both reins through a turn he will also likely stop in confusion- ask him to go forward into the soft contact and praise him for doing so then ask gently for a turn again. It helps if you can do this in a large area where there is no fenceline to run into! If you don't have a big field, introduce the concept in gentle serpentines going down the road then when he's going well you can have him make a big slow sweeping turn in a driveway and do serpentines all the way back home. They often get the idea quickly this way as it's fun for them.
Leia
Edited to add: As an example, here's a picture of my pair. The silver buckskin on the off side is a three year old colt who has only been hitched a few times and doesn't yet have the strength to keep trotting for long or stay in balance through his turns without help. He was tired and cranky by the time this photo was taken and while he's tipping his nose in the direction of the turn, he has no impulsion and is heavy on the forehand. By himself he would be breaking to a walk. The chestnut on the near side is my 11 year old Preliminary level horse and even when out of shape, sore from the previous day and shackled to his uncooperative partner
he is up in the bridle, bending through his whole body and stepping up under himself. The difference is impulsion!
If I were driving the colt by himself at that moment I would have been taking up strong elastic contact, driving him up into the bridle then allowing him to make the turn with a lot of support from the outside rein and praising him as he went forward.
Assuming your equipment is not causing the problem and he's physically fit enough to do what you're asking, go back to basics. The goal in bending is to have the horse's body form an arc from his nose to his tail along the line of travel, coming up through the poll and stepping under himself with his inside hind leg. His nose tipping to the inside is only a side effect of real bending which takes place in the ribcage. When you ask the horse to give with his nose you want him to soften his jaw and come up into the bridle. When he does this it should cause a chain reaction- he softens his jaw, gives at the poll, raises the root of his neck, frees his shoulder, lifts his ribcage and lets his hind leg swing further forward. When this happens his energy should be collected and recycled through his body. Somewhere in this process it sounds like you've taken a wrong turn and his energy is dumping out the front. The most likely reason for this to happen is that you're asking for him to give his nose and then expecting him to follow it but not pushing him up into the bridle and helping him find the power to do so. He has to be driven from back to front! FIRST the forward energy, THEN the give in the jaw, THEN the physical turn.
Make sure you go back to long-lines for these lessons and don't proceed to cart work until he really understands them. When you do hitch, do everything at a walk and quit when he does it right! Come back and work on trot another day when he's had time to rest and think about it. If he can't do it at a walk, he sure as heck won't be able to do it going faster.
The other part of this equation is your hands. As Minimor said, there are different cues for asking a horse to sidestep through a turn versus bending through one. To get a bend you want to half-halt on the inside rein to ask the horse to give his jaw, set up the bend, then allow the turn with your outside rein. The outside rein must continue to support the horse and dictate the size of the turn- it can't just be loose while you pull on the inside rein. Think of it as a supporting leg against the horse's ribcage, showing him how far over he can move. If you're only pulling on the inside rein the horse will either stop in confusion when the shafts start pushing into him or he'll do the only other thing he can figure out, which is sidestepping over following the pressure. If your horse is not used to feeling contact on both reins through a turn he will also likely stop in confusion- ask him to go forward into the soft contact and praise him for doing so then ask gently for a turn again. It helps if you can do this in a large area where there is no fenceline to run into! If you don't have a big field, introduce the concept in gentle serpentines going down the road then when he's going well you can have him make a big slow sweeping turn in a driveway and do serpentines all the way back home. They often get the idea quickly this way as it's fun for them.
Leia
Edited to add: As an example, here's a picture of my pair. The silver buckskin on the off side is a three year old colt who has only been hitched a few times and doesn't yet have the strength to keep trotting for long or stay in balance through his turns without help. He was tired and cranky by the time this photo was taken and while he's tipping his nose in the direction of the turn, he has no impulsion and is heavy on the forehand. By himself he would be breaking to a walk. The chestnut on the near side is my 11 year old Preliminary level horse and even when out of shape, sore from the previous day and shackled to his uncooperative partner
If I were driving the colt by himself at that moment I would have been taking up strong elastic contact, driving him up into the bridle then allowing him to make the turn with a lot of support from the outside rein and praising him as he went forward.
Last edited by a moderator:
shorthorsemom
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2008
- Messages
- 2,386
- Reaction score
- 454
Leia, awesome explanation. Love the photo too, You highlighted on something my instructor is working on with Ike and I and the outside rein description and the photo of your two horses are really good for visual back up, I can really see exactly the difference between the two and it puts in perspective what I am currently working on with Ike and my instructor. Thanks to you and Minimor for posting excellent descriptions so us newbies can learn.
I am a sponge right now, trying to learn all I can, you never get to the end... if you do, I think it is because you have stopped listening... always more to learn.
targetsmom
Well-Known Member
I knew Leia would explain it WAY better than I could... Thanks again for such a wonderful, detailed explanation.
I need to tape more of my driving lessons and post them on here because this is something I have been working on a lot. Wednesday's lesson had my instructor practically giddy at the bend on our circles in both directions! Princess usually OVERBENDS to the right, but it is still the outside rein that is key.
I need to tape more of my driving lessons and post them on here because this is something I have been working on a lot. Wednesday's lesson had my instructor practically giddy at the bend on our circles in both directions! Princess usually OVERBENDS to the right, but it is still the outside rein that is key.
Yeah, thanks Leia. You just caused a light to turn on for me. I was wondering why my elderly gelding was not working for my grandson the other day. The old man is usually "push button" and the boy's 6 year old sister drives Chip in shows.
The light bulb---- the boy likes to do spins and my mare does them almost without thinking; however the gelding was turning his head without moving his body. Yep, grandson was throwing the outside contact away. Didn't occur to me at the time. Thanks!
The light bulb---- the boy likes to do spins and my mare does them almost without thinking; however the gelding was turning his head without moving his body. Yep, grandson was throwing the outside contact away. Didn't occur to me at the time. Thanks!
hobbyhorse23
Well-Known Member
Glad the explanation was helpful. A horse who's really experienced will go into a spin when you throw away the outside contact completely but if they're being asked to do it from a halt or don't have that experience, they tend to go "huh?"
You've got to have the contact to start with so you can release it once they get spiraling in!
Leia
Leia
Last edited by a moderator:
Thank you everyone for your suggestions! My boy is a fairly hefty 37-38" 10 year old that I usually drive a couple times a week around some trails, weather permitting. Now that Leia threw it out there I'm thinking that the shafts may be too narrow for him. Since he can't even squeeze between the shafts of my regular easy entry cart I've been using my 48" shafted Houghton cart which is wider, but he still doesn't have much "wiggle room" between the shafts, so it makes sense that he can't bend properly. HELLO! That could explain why he can track up easily while line driving and not so good in the cart! I hadn't even thought about that! My poor boy, what if I've been asking him to do something that he physically can't?! Bad horse mom
How much distance would you think a horse needs on each side between him and the shafts? I might have to think about buying a shetland size pony cart...
hobbyhorse23
Well-Known Member
Don't feel bad! You've been doing your best and I'm sure your boy knows that. The good news is now that you know what the problem most likely is, you can deal with it.Sungold said:Thank you everyone for your suggestions! My boy is a fairly hefty 37-38" 10 year old that I usually drive a couple times a week around some trails, weather permitting. Now that Leia threw it out there I'm thinking that the shafts may be too narrow for him. Since he can't even squeeze between the shafts of my regular easy entry cart I've been using my 48" shafted Houghton cart which is wider, but he still doesn't have much "wiggle room" between the shafts, so it makes sense that he can't bend properly. HELLO! That could explain why he can track up easily while line driving and not so good in the cart! I hadn't even thought about that! My poor boy, what if I've been asking him to do something that he physically can't?! Bad horse momHow much distance would you think a horse needs on each side between him and the shafts? I might have to think about buying a shetland size pony cart...
I'm terrible with measures and distances but I dug a picture out real quick of Kody with his Bellcrown in 2008. These shafts are adjustable (can rotate in and out) so I set them about where he needed them to be able to bend but still be close to his sides. You can see that he's got plenty of room to move his hip over.
Does that help? I bet Myrna will have a better answer for you on that one!
Leia
Last edited by a moderator:
RhineStone
Well-Known Member
I think it depends on the horse. The biggest thing to understand is that a well made cart will be much more narrow at the tugs than it will at the singletree. They need room at their hips and ribcage, and not so much at their shoulder. If the cart is too wide at the shoulder, the horse will have a harder time pushing the cart around in a turn.
Myrna
brasstackminis
Well-Known Member
Adding to what Leia said...From my Riding Dressage days, just a little FYI. It takes more energy to make a circle. Sometimes we forget that you need to add a little more gas when turning compared to going straight. It is the same when driving horses in a circle.
Another thing I have noticed...if I try to overcompensate for my horse not turning when I'd like, and use too much "inside" rein to try and drag him around, neglecting to use enough "outside" rein to move the shoulder around, the horse most likely pokes himself in the neck with the shaft (even if it is properly adjusted). To understand inside and outside think of yourself walking, riding, or driving in a circle. If you follow the lines that each of your shoulders individually make (2 shoulders, 2 circles), the bigger circle is the outside, the smaller one is the inside. The outside rein is held in the hand connected to the outside shoulder. I wish I had a diagram...Anyways, if you think about it, your horse does not really follow where is head is going, he follows his shoulders. He can turn his head all the way to the right and go left if he wanted too. If you steer the shoulders and not the head, your horse will not get himself jabbed with a shaft! Hope that helps someone
Another thing I have noticed...if I try to overcompensate for my horse not turning when I'd like, and use too much "inside" rein to try and drag him around, neglecting to use enough "outside" rein to move the shoulder around, the horse most likely pokes himself in the neck with the shaft (even if it is properly adjusted). To understand inside and outside think of yourself walking, riding, or driving in a circle. If you follow the lines that each of your shoulders individually make (2 shoulders, 2 circles), the bigger circle is the outside, the smaller one is the inside. The outside rein is held in the hand connected to the outside shoulder. I wish I had a diagram...Anyways, if you think about it, your horse does not really follow where is head is going, he follows his shoulders. He can turn his head all the way to the right and go left if he wanted too. If you steer the shoulders and not the head, your horse will not get himself jabbed with a shaft! Hope that helps someone
hobbyhorse23
Well-Known Member
Absolutely! Another thing to consider is that whichever way the withers go, the head will swing the opposite direction. For instance if a horse is spooking at something on the right side of the road, if you can use your left (outside) rein to push his withers over to the right his head will swing back towards the left and into line. When circling you're using that outside rein to keep those withers centered and not let him fall through his outside shoulder. It may look like you're controlling his head, but it's really all about the shoulders.brasstackminis said:I wish I had a diagram...Anyways, if you think about it, your horse does not really follow where is head is going, he follows his shoulders. He can turn his head all the way to the right and go left if he wanted too. If you steer the shoulders and not the head, your horse will not get himself jabbed with a shaft! Hope that helps someone
Leia
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
-
-
-
-
Is it possible to get all the loose hair off your shedding mini?- Latest: Marsha Cassada
-
-
-
-
-
We are finally getting somewhere!
- Latest: Standards Equine