Appy genes

[circlesinthesand]

ok, I dunno much above a few basics about appy color patterns or genes etc. I do know sometimes they can be born solid and get spots later on but other than that it's very limited. I've had solid QH's all my life, lol. Not much paints or appys in the mix so color combos were pretty straight forward bay to sorrel maybe pally to sorrel etc with the exception of a few duns here and there.

My little guy is solid black with a white streak in his tail and if you look very closely there are some white little hairs on his knees (spots? I dunno, they're just whispy little hairs, could be from a damage hair follicle for all I know!) no signs on his feet or face, he's really quite solid black, except for the white hairs in his tail

Sire was Appy, dam was supposed to be appy but in her winter coat I didn't see it. I'm curious as to the possiblity of him getting spots or not? And at what age should I stop looking for them? I honestly wouldn't care one way or the other because he's cute as a button as he is, but I'm just interested in genetics and learning more and this is really the first time I have anything to do with appaloosa genes so since my boy has an appy background, I'm set on learning. It's been nice to read some of the info others have questioned about but does anyone have any good links that can give me an idea of what the different genes can cause with the spotting? or even just a good basic quick reference for genes and spots? I have found some on paint genes...the different patterns etc. and I've done some googling but I've yet to find one for appy in terms I can understand clearly so I'm a bit lost Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks!

 

[ohmt]

The Appaloosa Project is definitely the best place to go for appy information. I suggest getting a subscription to the "forum" as that's where I have learned the most. You can ask your questions and the researchers answer. They also post teaching seminars for you to watch. VERY educational!

How old is your little guy? Black can suppress appy, but normally you would see at least some indication of spots after he shed his foal coat if the black were suppressing PATN-1. Does he have mottling, striped hooves, or sclera? He could eventually varnish and get a few spots if there is a minor PATN gene at work, but it sounds as though he does not have PATN-1 (the "leopard gene") so I would not expect anything "loud" if he does. Still, varnish can give you some pretty neat transformations

 

[circlesinthesand]

He's just a yearling. In fact, his BD is either today or the 18th (I forgot if was a 6 or an 8 ) He doesn't have striped hooves I know they are solid black as we just trimmed him this weekend. He doesn't have any mottling on his face. I'll have to go look at his other parts again and I didn't know mottling was not limited to the face until I read about it this morning. He may have sclera as well, I also need to look again. I had forgotten all the signs and didn't know exactly what schlera was, I knew white in eye but that's all. So I had to look them up this morning, then while I was reading I couldn't find any good info on the genes, hence my questions. I will definitely be checking all that tonight

Minimal appy is fine by me, like I said I really don't care if he ends up solid but it is certainly interesting to read about all the different genes that bring those spots out

 

[yellerroseintx]

we had a solid grulla mare..she did have mottling and striped hooves but no other color untill her 7th year when she shed out covered in snowflakes..

 

[ohmt]

It can take years for varnish/snowflaking to occur, but if he had a minor PATN gene then you'd see it before then. He is young enough where there could be something there, but it's not going to be PATN-1. I have a 2 yr old chestnut appaloosa colt that has no mottling on his face, but does have it under his tail as well as striped hooves. You can not tell he is appaloosa unless you look for it. He will never be "loud", but he could varnish/snowflake later. Varnish/Snowflake isn't technically an appaloosa pattern, it's a characteristic of LP ( like mottling, sclera, etc)

 

[circlesinthesand]

ah, no sclera

and we're not to the point were he'll relax enough for me to lift his tail to check for mottling there. I tried but he clamped right up and there was no budging it without force. But from what I could see when he was walking loose, I'm thinking my chances of appy just plummeted

so I wonder what's causing the white in his tail if it's not an appy spot? it's not a rabicano trait, it's too low on his tail, almost from underneath. I'm going to work on getting him to let me mess with his tail this week and see what else I can spot (pun intended, har har.) Maybe he's just really really really minimal?

 

[ohmt]

Don't lose hope yet, he could still get some appy characteristics later on

 

[HGFarm]

If he has no characteristics- white sclera, mottled skin (with the Minis I find that sometimes the striped feet seem to appear optional!) then I would not be looking for Appy color.

And yes, I have a mare who is 10 or 11 this year who is STILL changing color- she gets more every year. One of our full sized Appies didnt color out til she was 6 and we had a friend whose mare didnt color til she was 13! A couple of reasons to love the Appies- every year is like Xmas and you just dont know what will be under the winter hair. All their patterns are so unique and none are ever the same. I find fun shapes sometimes in their spots too... little hearts or other shapes, LOL

 

[paintcrzy2001]

I am so glad there is a topic on this! I have a 3yo Grulla mare who has the appy characteristics, including striped hoves, motteling around her eyes, nose, and undeneath her tail, when we body clipped her, I noticed several teeeiny tan spots, I am soooo excited, I have always been a spot fan! and now I see next year we could totally have more spots!

 

[circlesinthesand]

I checked under his tail and as far as I could see on his sheath there are no mottling spots on his exterior skin that I can see. He'll let me mess with his mouth (I've been checking teeth) but I don't recall seeing any there either. I'll have to keep an eye out for when he hangs loose to check elsewhere

But I noticed a few more tiny white hairs (not really a spot, just a few hairs) on the back of his leg above the hock. I don't recall seeing those before but.... He's shedding in full force right now.

 

[HGFarm]

Usually when they start roaning- it's all over. Snowflakes will get actual spots. Does he have any non Appy roans in his pedigree? Could just be a few white hairs that aren't related to anything.......