Another hay topic!

[Kim P]

I bought some different hay from a neighbor. It is not like I have been buying. It is probably not fresh. I have been buying it from tractor supply then I found this It looks and smells good. It is not bright yellow. They are feeding it to their animals. Did mine just get a taste for something better and do not like this cheaper quality. I have had a hard time finding hay. I am puzzled bc they have gobbled up everything I have given but this.

 

[Ryan Johnson]

Hey Kim,

Had the same problem a while back. The hay I had been feeling was "this seasons" so had a fair bit of green thru it and smelt sweet- hence not a blade of hay left. Got another lot thru a friend that was last seasons and had dried out somewhat. They walked up to it had a sniff, Turned their noses up and walked away......................

Main thing to keep in mind is that the Hay is "clean" has not been wet after bailing and has no Mould growing in it.

Grass Hay and Alfalfa (Lucerne) my horses are on most of the time. When I can get a hold of it Grass/clover blend is really good......

 

[Kim P]

I don't know a lot about the different kinds of hay but when I found that truck load of coastal I only had room for two bales. They also had alfalfa and it looked totally different from that at tractor supply. I guess bc it was fresh. So am I going to have to search for more hay or will eventually eat it? One is preggo so I have to be sure she eats well. I guess this is probably last years. It has turned colors and is a little dryer but still looks good. I was happy bc I thought I would no longer have to search for hay and I would have plenty through the winter. I only got four bales and was going to clean my shop and get about thirty more. What should I do?

 

[Minimor]

You say this hay is not bright yellow--that is a good thing. What color is it? Hay should be green. The outside of the bale might bleach out and be a light gold color, but the hay inside will/should still be green.

 

[Ryan Johnson]

As Minimor said there should always be green thru it. The outsides of the bale may have sun bleaching.

Ensure that it has been kept dry after bailing.

happy shopping

 

[AngC]

I don't know a lot about the different kinds of hay but when I found that truck load of coastal I only had room for two bales. They also had alfalfa and it looked totally different from that at tractor supply. I guess bc it was fresh. So am I going to have to search for more hay or will eventually eat it? One is preggo so I have to be sure she eats well. I guess this is probably last years. It has turned colors and is a little dryer but still looks good. I was happy bc I thought I would no longer have to search for hay and I would have plenty through the winter. I only got four bales and was going to clean my shop and get about thirty more. What should I do?

I'm not sure I can add much. Apparently, hay in various parts of the US is different. You may get better advice from someone in Louisiana.

You mention Tractor Supply... were you perchance buying Standlee compressed bales? I saw them once at a place similar (to Tractor Supply) in our area and was totally flabbergasted at the poor quality. The only reason I can think of that people would buy that stuff is either they have nothing better available or maybe the squished bales are easier to handle? Anyway, a few months later we were driving through Idaho and stopped at a Standlee place (non-retail) ...big huge storage sheds. Before they kicked us out for snooping around, I learned that the best stuff is in those huge bales that are sent overseas. The rest, that is sold in the US, is the leftover crud--chopped up and smashed down. Even before the chopping/compressing, it didn't look all that good.

You said the neighbor is feeding the hay to his/her animals. What type of animals? ...For example, I believe goats can eat way worse stuff without ill effects?

A handful of thoughts on hay:

--If they get hungry enough, they'll eat anything (regardless whether it's good for them.)

--Hay should smell good. (Not sure how to describe that; I was raised around it and know what smells right and what smells wrong.)

--If it costs more, it's (probably) better. For example, there's a guy that comes around all our properties at the end of the summer; he mows everybody's lot for free and tells them it's for his goats. Couple years ago, after I saw him around and about mowing a good 100 acres overall, I told my husband that this guy must have a heck of a lot of goats. Then we saw him down on the highway selling the stuff for 6 bucks a bale. This stuff is absolute crap; weeds, blackberries, etc. As a comparison, we get E. Washington orchard grass which costs anywhere form 18-21 bucks a bale. I still haven't totally figured out the first/second/third cutting... I have learned that the first cutting is usually a little "off." Second and third seem pretty nice and you get fewer seed heads; I guess because they have a little wider window for cutting/drying?

 

[Kim P]

Well they did it eat. It is brown on the outside with some brown and green on the inside. It still smells good. Not as good as that I had got from that feed store on another town(that coastal). I am sure it is from last year. The guy has cows and big horses. He is the sheriff here or something high up in that field. Yes I was buying that stand lee bc the bagged normal hay was moldy and nasty. They had to return their last three shipments. I did not like that compressed stuff and it cost twice as much. I tried the alfalfa, Timothy and something else. We are going to start baling our own hay when we move. We have lots of pasture land. We only have a tractor with a bucket and a batwing so far. We have to buy all the hay stuff next. That will have to wait just a bit as we bought a bulldozer this month. Yes the second and third cut will be best. We are going to burn the pastures off this winter. I told my husband that I want to do small square bales when buy the hay stuff not the big rolls. We have to build a shop for all this equipment then a barn. Then a house. It is going to take us two or three years to get all this done as we can't afford to do this all at once. I was raised on a small farm and left that life only to return to it at 48 years old. These lil horses just changed me. I don't want any cows or chickens or other critters. I don't have a green thumb for gardening but I can grow trees and hay can't be that hard. Yeah I talk a lot. I probably drive the horses crazy! Thanks everyone it is nice to have experienced knowledge at my finger tips.

 

[shorthorsemom]

I only buy fine horse quality grass hay. I only have geldings. I specify horse quality to my supplier. Use your nose. I check every slice of hay my guys eat by smelling first and then examining visually for mold. I recently got a bad bale they had set aside because it was no good and it accidently got in my load. I took it back and the guy gave me 3 bales for replacement he felt so bad.

He also knew it was enough mold that it could have killed my horses had I just fed it and didn't check the hay first. Mold wasn't visible until I broke the flake apart, but my nose told me to take a second look.

My horses do best with very fine hay. It bleaches out on the outside of the bale, but inside is light green, no weeds.

I like to feed a blander hay and supplement with pellets for vitamins and minerals daily rather than try to guess with the hay. I only feed small bales of hay. Many folks use alfalfa with no issues, but I have one horse that gets too crazy eating the alfalfa and he gorges to the point I was afraid he would impact, so no more alfalfa here.

Be sure if you are storing over winter that the hay has plenty of air circulating around it. Hay stored under plastic or a closed shed can be clean when you put it in, but can quickly get musty if it doesn't get enough air or if it gets moisture. Tin sheds can sweat and "rain" on the hay.

Grass hay can get pricy mid winter and depending on where you are located,,, horse quality hay can be hard to find on occasion, but this year it seems to be pretty easy and affordable to get. I have paid as much as $8.50 per bale in dead of winter on years of drought and my supplier has purchased shipping loads of hay from Canada that were pretty decent and I appreciated being able to get. I have purchased properly stored clean and not dusty year old horse hay and been very pleased with it. and I have stored my own hay 6 months at a time before. I will never feed dusty moldy or any hay that I cannot stick my nose into the flake and smell fresh hay.

One bale lasts me about 2-3 days for my geldings when they are not getting pasture. During a hard winter, more like a bale every other day to maintain weight.

good luck.

 

[Kim P]

I paid 6.00 a bale from this guy. I was paying 10.00 for a bag at tractor supply. I paid 8.50 for those two bales I accidentally found. I don't think this is bad but I know it is not the best. I think I will just try to find a good batch again in shreveport if I am lucky. I am storing it in our metal shop. It gets plenty of air in the shop. I was just worried bc they have never turned their nose up at anything before. Wouldn't the alfalfa help keep them warmer in the winter? If that guy is still there with those eighteen wheelers I am thinking about getting some of that good alfalfa also. Just to mix it in.

 

[Kim P]

Okay guys I just called and the guy still has that good coastal. He also said he has cream wheat or something like that. What is that? I hope someone responds to me on this before I leave.

 

[lkblazin]

Second and third cut are what most people wait for. They are when the grass/ alfalfa is at its peak. Third cut around here can be great or ok. Depends on the rain and if they bale it right. I have thought about buying the standlee stuff, but didn't. Now I know not to. The length of stem will tell you the age and quality of the plants. Green is not always a true sign that its fresh. I sometimes buy last years third cutting and if stored correctly its green, sweet smelling, and not too dry. Sometimes there are bales on the edge of the stack that get sun bleached. So they will be yellow looking old. Dusty is not good either. But if you get dusty hay and need to use it, there are many tricks to make it better. Spray it down with a hose first. Is the one I know. Neve needed to use it but it apparently works to prevent respiratory issues. Hope this helps

 

[bevann]

I don't want to rain on your parade about growing hay BUTTTT it is not always easy and can be very risky.You are at the mercy of the weather and you MUST be able to drop whatever else is going on in your life when the hay is ready.We tried for several years and finally decided it was just easier to buy good hay.For equipment you need a tractor that is large enough to pull all the equipment .Hay must 1st be cut with 1 piece of equipment. Then you need a rake.You need a tedder.Then a baler which will tie the bales properly. You have to have a wagon or truck or flatbed trailer to get the bales out of the field and then under some shelter.All this time you are hoping for no rain and low humidity.Here in Delaware it is very humid many summer days and the hay did not dry well.It was very frustrating for us.Karl had grown up on a farm and knew the proper way to do hay,but it is hard work and we had difficulty getting help when we needed it.Now I order my hay, then bring it and put it in the barn.Good luck and good weather if you decide to do hay I don't envy you

 

[paintponylvr]

Hmmm.... hay is an interesting topic! This one is LONG - get your favorite drink - and take a load off for a while!!

i/we owned our first horse (OURS) in Hawaii - I think we had him for 1 full, wonderful year before he was sold and we moved to VA for 2 yrs. Then, we spent 10 years in Colorado. Then I spent 2 years in MT. Between MT & CO, I was in/associated with the Army - in GA, SC, Korea and 3 distinctly different areas of Germany. Plus, did tours thru (and had to hit barns/horse places!!) Switzerland, Austria (didn't get to see the Lipizzaner stud/horses in Vienna) and Denmark (new hubby was quite unhappy with that one!)... Hay is different to every country and even in different micro climates w/i each country or here in the states. Even with all the traveling I did - I didn't put "2 & 2" together and figure it out (yup - young and dumb). I was amazed at some of the hays fed across the big pond - and the horses/ponies look GREAT.

When we moved from MT back to NC, I never even thought to ask about the hay and what I might need to do to change our ponies over from what we were feeding to what we were going to be feeding (pasture was grassland CRP - can't remember what that stands for, hay was an alfalfa/meadow grass hay shipped in from Canada. W/ 3 small horses & 3 shetland ponies, I used about 50#s of feed a month, and maybe 2 round bales of hay.). That COMPLETELY slipped my mind - my hubby didn't know anything about it. I was worried about a place to keep them (that we could afford) and then getting the house we thought we had sold back into one piece (it had been vandalized - doing almost $30,000 of damage to a beginner home mortgaged @ $55,000). The "5" acres (closer to 3.5) that we leased for our critters was in "grass" - which turned out to be mostly weeds. I also had to work very quickly at getting more fence up - I didn't know what hi-tensile wire was when I arrived in NC but learned quickly that unless hot and kept hot it didn't contain our small ponies very well! And the grass and hay in the fields surrounding us were ALWAYS "much greener" according to the ponies!

SOOO, the day after we arrived, I was taken to the main grounds of the boarding facility I was leasing my pasture from - 2 miles up the road. I was shown the "hay"... at which point I made a huge "faux pas" and inserted both booted feet into my mouth w/ the bald & bold statement ... "... that's hay? That's what we'd line our driveway with to keep from bogging in 3' of snow and ice ... "

I didn't get to take those booted feet out of my mouth much that first year, actually. Every time I turned around - things were just SOOOO different here in the south....

AS to the compressed bales of hay - not every feed store gets just the Standlee products (which I ?, for other reasons). I've had some good and some bad. I've had some the horses/ponies will eat and some they won't. I purchased "good" timothy shipped in from NY, that our vet felt would be good for the horses (arabians) and ponies. NONE of ours would eat that darned hay (and EXPENSIVE) - I sold all of it to the boarding barn I leased my pasture from. ALL the WB & TWH ate that "garbage" like it was going out of style!

Last year, for the first time when at the State Fair (tho I had to be quick as hubby was not interested in staying long at the Ag exhibits) I really paid attention to the hay samples and what they had been tested at nutritionally - from all over NC. Another eye opener! The worst "looking" hays (smelled awesome - reminded me of a hot summer day on my Gparents' farm in Kiron, IA in the 70s. They didn't cut hay but 1 farm over did and you could smell it) - had the best tests. The "prettiest" hays, smell OK, but not the same as the other, was the lowest in everything nutritionally and also the highest in the Acid count (can't remember what that is called).

2012 & 2013 were both BAD years - at opposite extremes of each other. Drought and then WAY TOO MUCH RAIN - many hay fields lay fallow and/or were burned off in our area - they were under water! and couldn't be cut when they needed to be. 2014 started with spring temps not getting high enuff to "jump start" the c/b hay fields in our area at all! Our main hay guy went into 2014 w/o fertilizing - he lost too much $$ the previous year with no hay to sell and couldn't do the first cutting w/ fertilizer. There is a noticeable difference in quality in the first cutting from the last 3 years...

Due to lack of hay from my main supplier in both 2012 & 2013 - I scrambled around and bought from many "new" suppliers in our area. Found out that there are a lot of hay growers out there but most didn't know what kind of hay they were growing (or didn't want to share that info, not sure which). They also are competing against each other and many have terrible things to say about all the others (hmm, I sorted out whom I purchased hay from by avoiding the talkers that spoke the most ill). I got some good hay, and some not so good hay. I also, at one point, got the only crap that was available - and it was a problem not so much with the ponies but with our larger horses.

"Fine, soft" hay in Coastal/Bermuda types is a quick way to impaction colic - not that much different than feeding grass clippings to the horses (the impaction part - not the fermenting part).

Does anyone know exactly how many different types of Coastal/Bermuda hay there are? Some varieties are GMO, some are not. Some are specifically grown for cattle and some are more oriented to the horse market - then quality depends on all the other factors - fertilization and mother nature. When I was 2 counties and 50+ miles further south and west from where I am now, the growers I purchased hay from KNEW WHICH TYPES of C/B they had planted. They SHARED that info. I found that all used some form of Tifton seed - some of which our ponies would not touch. One farm grew many different varieties - baled in both small squares and big rounds. He and I "played" and I got to try different ones. Then I moved up to Lillington... and it was different all over again. NOW - the Bermuda grass seen seems to have names rather than Tifton #s. Bermuda Grass Seed Coastal Bermuda Grass CHOOSING HAY (pdf)

Lousiana SU - Eval of C/B Aggie Horticulture

ANOTHER learning experience - here is a GREAT DESCRIPTION of C/B and it's types and where it grows best in the South/Southeast done by LSU Ag Center. and according to this study by University of GA - none of our (local) hay producers are cutting/baling at the right time frames! Warm season Grass Breeding and here is one comparing Coastal to Tifton 85 (which my ponies 'turned their noses up" at) done by Florida SU. Coastal vs T85 And this one, done by our own NCSU - AGBermudaGrass is in-depth and long (good info, but....snore).

Google images of Bermuda grass hay and you will see a lot of difference in types of growth - both in the field and baled. I think I'm beginning to love GOOGLE (finally!).

What I've never understood is why no-one here in NC (our area) irrigates hay fields. Hay is/was considered a viable and important crop in other states I've been in and all hay we purchased was irrigated even in states that received "plenty" of snow and rain. Our area of NC seems to be in the minority when it comes to irrigating hay. I asked one guy about it and he stated ..."... not important enough to irrigate it. It grows or it don't ...". I didn't buy any hay from him.

I was going to ask some more ?s, Kim P, but now I'm tired and can't think straight. Maybe later. Need to post this before I do something stupid and lose the whole post!!

EDITED TO ADD - Currently we have 27 equine - WE FEED A LOT OF HAY. I can't seem to get any local hay suppliers to realize just how much I DO feed and what I'd be willing to do to keep ONE, main supplier!

 

[AngC]

I don't want to rain on your parade about growing hay BUTTTT it is not always easy and can be very risky.You are at the mercy of the weather and you MUST be able to drop whatever else is going on in your life when the hay is ready.We tried for several years and finally decided it was just easier to buy good hay.For equipment you need a tractor that is large enough to pull all the equipment .Hay must 1st be cut with 1 piece of equipment. Then you need a rake.You need a tedder.Then a baler which will tie the bales properly. You have to have a wagon or truck or flatbed trailer to get the bales out of the field and then under some shelter.All this time you are hoping for no rain and low humidity.Here in Delaware it is very humid many summer days and the hay did not dry well.It was very frustrating for us.Karl had grown up on a farm and knew the proper way to do hay,but it is hard work and we had difficulty getting help when we needed it.Now I order my hay, then bring it and put it in the barn.Good luck and good weather if you decide to do hay I don't envy you

I suspect that growing hay is not for the faint of heart. And I'm pretty sure, unless you have lots of animals or you are successful enough to sell, you aren't going to earn back your investment. I've been poking around with the idea anyway. We had a section of garden that I couldn't keep up with the weeding and didn't need anyway. So I spent way too much time searching and found orchard grass seed (had to find a supplier that sells small lots of seed.) Researched lots of stuff, because the dudes selling hay don't want you to make your own so some are more forthcoming than others.

So we got our seed. Area was prepped (actually for several years before) nice fertile ground tilled to about 12-inch depth. We spread the seed with a spreader (plug seeder too expensive.) And wouldn't you know it? ...the worst rain of this spring came along and washed/pounded all the seed into low spots. But, I was prepped and had saved several pounds of seed. We reseeded where it looked like it needed it. Sure as sh-t, the next worst rain of the spring happened within a couple days. Luckily this was just an experiment to see if we could actually grow some sort of hay here. But now we have a bunch of weeds interspersed with some really nice bright, green orchard grass.

I'd argue with Bevann about some of her suggested equipment, but others are a must-have. I've priced things like a baler--there is no way we/I could earn our money back on that. Perhaps, rental is an option? I haven't gotten that far yet since this year we just mowed down what we had and will try again next year.

 

[chandab]

Depending on where you are, you might be able to get someone to hay the field for you (at least to start); either pay outright or in trade for part of the hay, I can't remember if it's 50/50 or a bit in favor of the person doing the work.

 

[Kim P]

Well we aren't there yet but we will give it a shot. It want be until next year . We have a really big tractor and batwing. It will pull all the hay equipment with no problem. We want to buy another big tractor so we will have two. I am not worrying over that yet. I am happy bc I went and got me 20 bales of that good coastal and 2 bales of good alfalfa. I put it in my metal shop and covered it with plastic so no dirt will get it on it. There is plenty of air flow in there. I just can't believe the difference in how the fresh alfalfa looks compared to that compressed from tractor supply. I was thinking about mixing them a lil alfalfa in with coastal when it gets cold. They were so happy to get the good stuff again. I had to drive to get it, that is why I bought so many. I paid 8.50 a bale for the coastal and I guess 18.00 a bale for the alfalfa! Lord and y'all say it goes up in winter! I spent 222.00 today. The hay came from Arkansas! I could not believe it wasn't from here in my surrounding area although Arkansas really isn't that far, an hour away.

 

[secuono]

That is cheap compared to the hay prices we have and darn near free to what I hear people out west pay!

I made some of my own hay last year, riding mower cut it, hand rowed it, hand flipped it and hand raked and stacked it! So glad I didn't have to hand cut it, too!

Hay stops quickly loosing nutrition very early on, 1-2yr old hay is very close to 4-6mo old hay. It may look more yellow and dry, but the nutrition is similar.

I don't know what coastal hay is, I buy grass/pasture mix hay, same thing they eat under their feet is similar to the hay they eat from nets.

A good hay guy will open a bale for you, if you don't like it, no sweat, he leaves and you pay nothing and look for something better. He should also be willing to take back/replace any moldy hay bales you find later on after buying a batch.

TSC hay is horribly overpriced here, 15# for $20+. I can buy the same hay, 60# bale for $8-10. But for some, it might be the only hay they can get to. I paid $2 extra for hay this winter when I couldn't get any hay from a hay guy. Had to pickup 3 bales at a time or pay $1 extra per bale for delivery, no way.

Have you checked craigslist and real farm stores for hay makers? Asked around at big horse, cattle, goat farms where they get theirs? Sometimes, instead of making their own, they buy out or they make their own and sell some, too.

 

[AngC]

Covering it is good, but even better is keeping it up off the floor. Stacking hay on asphalt is ok, but not directly on concrete. We have a concrete floor with stall mats on it in our tack room (where we store hay) and the hay goes on wooden pallets.

 

[Kim P]

I believe this is what you call a real farm store. I really liked it. They sell nothing but farming stuff. It is nothing like tractor supply. They have the eighteen wheeler trailers out there and I met the man who sold it to them. He came up and was counting how much alfalfa was left in the trailer and I thought he was a customer. I call it a feed store but they have fencing and horse supplies and some tractor stuff. They are very busy. They don't have clothes and all that. We have a dirt floor in our ( clay actually with some normal dirt covering it) shop. I laid some boards down and laid some tin left over from our metal roof across it ( husband probably want be too happy about that) then put the hay on top of that. Then I covered it with plastic. I am going to take over one half of his shop lol. I am going to put all their feed stuff on that side too. I am going to have to put something out to keep spiders away from all this stuff. I hate spiders. Especially grand daddy long legs! I have been putting everything in the middle so I could get to it all and see everything. I was only buying like two bales at a time. All this hay a snake may try to get in there. I think I will hang some moth ball nets up in the corners. I know they are poisonous. I am not going to put it by the hay or feed unless someone has a suggestion that will work better. I would kill myself in that shop if a granddaddy crawled on me! I am not really scared of snakes but I would be if I picked up a bale of hay and there was even a big chicken snake under it. God forbid it be a rattle snake. I really have never seen snakes around our place bc I kept moth balls every where until I got these ponies. You know I just realized we have several wooden pallets that I forgot about. I will put them down next time!

 

[paintponylvr]

You've got smaller mini horses and only feeding 3 (?, right?) - 20 bales may last you a bit longer than me.

I purchased and stacked 50 bales in barn in our barn on July 18th. I paid $5 out of the field - good sized bales though not as heavy as last year. Wish I had a scale - have no idea how heavy each of these bales are. The weight varies, but not much. Probably around 60 - 65# each.... Heavier than a bag of feed anyway. The bales to the side of the trailer had been baled closer to the road and he said there was some crabgrass in it PLUS it was still damp. 5 of those 10 bales went out to the pastures and opened/spread out in flake piles. The other 5 went into hay/feed area last - to be fed first. I'm already down to 8 bales left and will need to buy some more soon (of course - I DID feed the first 5 bales to pastured ponies - not the pen ponies)... The two pics were actually taken of our 3 yr old granddaughter - not of the hay specifically, LOL.

This is a type of coastal/bermuda. Don't know which variety. He DOES spread chicken litter on his fields right after each cut is off of the fields (has time to work into the hay field). I've never had problems with his hay. I've also purchased large round bales from him - he does what he calls horse quality and cow only quality. The cow quality hay is usually stored outside, along with being poorer hay to begin with. I've had to purchase such hay in the past.

Here is a pic of part of the stack in the barn. The black hen and white rooster are on a bale that will go up on top of the stack... It is stored against the barn wall, on pallets that are 48x48. I didn't go all the way to the rafters with this load (thank god). I will w/ the 100 bales to get them all in the area and still have room to move to set up the feed for the ponies.

One of my hay suppliers does the 50/50 hay with another person. Sherman has the hay and fields - also a tractor w/ a mower, Womack has the tedder and balers (for both round and small square). I pay $40/round bale from him, I pick up and he loads them in my trailer and truck (3 bales fit in the trailer above) and 1 in the bed of the truck. I can't remember what he charges for small squares.

The other hay suppliers I purchase from have their own equipment. All do other crops and/or livestock as well. One new supplier I've purchased from this year stores his rounds in the barn - they are $50 and $60 out of the barn for rounds. I paid $40 for rounds of Oat hay - loaded from the field. I was only able to get 8 bales from him of Oat hay. Wish I could have gotten more - mine did well on his - even though I would have liked it better if it had been cut/baled 10 days earlier (couldn't due to rain). IT was more mature at cutting than I like...

I have another supplier that is planning on baling a total of 100 small squares for me. His are the same cost, good quality, but smaller (at least they were last year). BUT, he's going to bale them for me and hold them since I can't do $500 in hay right now at one time... Mine have done well on his rounds this summer. I'm supposed to get a lot more rounds yet from 2 different suppliers - can only buy them up to 4 - 8 at a time...

****

Why are you covering your hay in plastic while it's in the shop? That might make your bales "sweat" - creating heat/dampness and leading to natural combustion.

Daddy Long Legs I can deal with. I don't do well with the big, "banana" spiders or black widows. While checking under one of my 100 gallon water tanks this summer - found a wasp nest. Was glad I thought to check 1st!! I'd been checking for spiders, wasn't prepared for wasps (and young just emerging from the nest). Really glad my hose was running and that I have GREAT water pressure. I was too far from the barn to go get wasp spray - I got all of them wet - then went around stomping them into the ground! I think I killed at least 10 (some did fly off) - then killed more the next day with wasp spray.