Animal Jealousy

[Marsha Cassada]

Yesterday I was given something to think about. At garden club, there was a man with a papillion dog. The dog was wearing a service vest, so I presumed the owner had some sort of disability, but I couldn't discern anything. When various members came up and offered a polite knuckle for the dog he was holding to sniff, the dog growled and even lunged at one person.

So, my first reaction is the the dog is jealous and doesn't want interference with its master. I've seen horses react this way.

A member who appeared to have some authority in dog behavior said "dogs are not jealous". She and the dog owner then had a conversation, but I went into the meeting and did not hear it.

Having had a "jealous" dog, I could hardly believe that animals cannot be jealous, but the more I think of it, the more I am thinking it is more a herd/pack dynamic and the "jealous" behavior is the result of weak leadership.

I've been around horses that appeared to exhibit jealous behavior, and I guess I was anthromorphizing them, giving them human emotions.

It's hard not to give human characteristics to animals, when one sees them react/interact in human-like manners. Any trainers who can shed some light on this issue?

(Is it possible for someone weathy and influential to get a Service Dog certificate for an animal, just so he can have the pleasure of taking the animal everywhere with him?)

 

[MountainWoman]

There are many different kinds of service animals and some are for people who have anxiety disorders or other problems that might not be obvious. Psychiatric service dogs are becoming more common all the time and they can work with people with problems ranging from panic disorder to agoraphobia and more. There are also dogs that are used to predict seizures and a long list of other qualified reasons. They are still certified therapy dogs and are allowed full access. I have never come across an ill behaved service animal and no service dog should lunge or growl at the general public.

 

[shorthorsemom]

So many things to consider... could be "little dog syndrome" as I call it. Dogs treated like infants and carried around and pampered and allowed to sit on laps without proper socialization and training will become tyrants. This dog was possibly trained just fine when it earned its service certificate because one of the tests is with strangers and greeting. I don't accept the "its just a little dogs temperament excuse" very often. Its usually because of improper handling and reinforcement or medical issues that create the little dog tyrant. This dog is already a tyrant, and has been allowed this behavior and now is most likely going to bite someone some day if it is not retrained promptly. I try to avoid giving dogs human characteristics because In doggie language the labels we put on dogs such as spiteful or jealous etc means something different to the dog.

What I say when I see that dog are the words " I am nervous" "I am not trained properly" "I have pain somewhere and you hurt me" etc.

I treat my little dogs like big dogs. I expect them to use their feet and unless my dog is in mortal danger or during puppy stage before they are leash trained... I ask them to walk on the ground like a big dog. I promise to always give my dogs the benefit of the doubt and check for medical reasons for changes in behavior or mood issues.

In pack language, this pup is very high. Every time somebody walks up and trys to pet this dog, and backs off when snarled or lunged at, reinforces the dogs attitude that I am a mighty little dog and I own the world.

The owner should set up the dog for a training session and when folks approach, give pup a treat. Pup associates strangers approaching with food reward. Then owner could put pup on floor and do the same. Stranger approach and pup gets reward. Eventually you can work up to stranger approach and put treat in cup and keep walking. Do not eyeball dog, just drop treat and move on. Now you should have pup anticipating stranger approach with association with food reward.

Then you can eventually work up to pup taking treat from stranger but that is a long way off.

This is a ticklish bit of training because one needs to read dogs body language very well or the result will be a bite.

This person needs to work with a trainer right away and until pup has been trained, i would not allow strangers to approach and pet the dog.

Dog could have ear or dental issues too and a quick pat on the head could result in pain which could trigger the dogs attitude. I always give dogs medical exam before correcting or retraining. Some dogs loathe being pat on the top of the head and rather chest or chin. so many things to consider and if I can back up in my comments here, I always be sure that there isnt a medical reson for odd behavior, especially if the dog is doing something new.

Dogs can get protective of their owners, however, dogs must be TRAINED to accept the pack leader human and act in a mannerly way when approached by folks Oked by the owner. I train my dogs well. If my dog accepts folks on my say so I have done my job.. that said... I do listen to my dogs if they ever say "hey I don't like this one particular person". Dogs are intuitive too and read human body language well and well trained dogs can be trusted to make decent human judgement once trained that they are not all bad.

Hope this helps, I am rambling a bit. I get a bit excited by doggie questions.

.

 

[shorthorsemom]

part two... there are many service dog categories. But for every certificate I have ever encountered the dog has had to pass a temperament testing before certificate is issued.

This dog is in a very dangerous mode right now. Dog is showing inhibition (motions to bite, but did not bite). You can not dodge or move fast enough to avoid a dog bite. If dog misses, dog INTENDED to miss. Dog is threatening. Dog is telling humans, I am communicating in the only way I know how to communicate that I am very uncomfortable or afraid and you figure it out soon or I will bite.

Correcting the bite, or lunge or aggressive behavior merely silences the ticker on the bomb. It will still go off, but without warning. Think of a rattlesnake that shakes its tail without striking, take away the warning noise will not keep the snake from biting, just takes away the warning to the human. This dog is giving plenty of warning and signals. Shush up the signals without figuring out the issue will cause dog to "bite without warning". Serious situation and needs to be addressed immediately. Hope they figure it out. No this is not normal "jealous" behavior. This is a bite waiting to happen.

PS I love that breed of little dog.

 

[shorthorsemom]

I have quite a few little dogs. My one chinese crested loathes strangers. I have him trained that even though he hates strangers (especially men) I am boss and I will take care of him, but there are circumstances where he has to be handled by strangers on my say so. I successfully showed him in obedience. During the "stand for exam" he would stare into my eyes while being examined. He allowed the judge to go over him and he did not move or bite. After we left the ring my dog would roll all over my coat or jacket to rub off the scent of the stranger. I always had a treat and my coat available for him to be rewarded and allow him to roll off the scent of the stranger. It was funny if you think about it. Lokeys communication to me that "I do it because you asked me to". Perfect manners with strangers on my say so.... Now... if that judge would ever walk into my house un invited... he would be toast. Appropriate location for behavior is acceptable. I do allow my dogs to defend their crate if they need to. Visitors are asked to leave the dogs alone when they are crated. works for us. I ask for excellent manners leashed in public.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

There are many different kinds of service animals and some are for people who have anxiety disorders or other problems that might not be obvious. Psychiatric service dogs are becoming more common all the time and they can work with people with problems ranging from panic disorder to agoraphobia and more. There are also dogs that are used to predict seizures and a long list of other qualified reasons. They are still certified therapy dogs and are allowed full access. I have never come across an ill behaved service animal and no service dog should lunge or growl at the general public.

I had forgotten about seizure warning. Did not know about the psychiatric areas. (The guy with the dog was a Rhodes scholar and drove a european sports car. He was an organic gardener.) I think the dog trainer who tried to give him information at the meeting was very concerned about the dog's behavior and was trying to warn him.

The dog did not growl at me, but I had no intention of petting it, as I figured it was a working dog. Perhaps it sensed I was not going to touch it? Later, I saw the owner had taken the Service vest off. Did that mean anything?

So, does anyone think there is such a thing as jealousy in the animal world? Or is it strictly pecking order and who's in charge?

 

[shorthorsemom]

That is a tough question. I prefer to use human emotion expressions for humans. I have seen animals act jealous but as a trainer I like to classify the emotion differently than just saying "that dog is jealous". I just describe dog emotions differently than human emotions because I have seen so many dogs that the owner placed human emotional traits on the dog and caused great stress to the dog. For instance. I have folks that swear their dog tore up the house or trash as "spite". It is not spite, it is training and timing. They say to me,... but when I got home dog looked "guilty"... They argue that because dog hung head and slunk around the house... the dog knew it had done wrong because it was acting "guilty". As a trainer I see a dog that completely doesn't understand what owner is asking and is acting in "anticipation of a reprimand". Dog knows owner will spaz and point to trash and yell and maybe hit dog when it sees trash or destruction because it has happened in past. Dog has been taught that angry body language means correction. What the owner does not understand that the dog cannot possibly connect the act of tearing stuff up earlier in the day with the end of the day when owner comes home. So dog greets owner happily, sees that "face or body language" and slinks away in horror and owner brands dog as "acting guilty".

Hope this makes sense. so... is dog Jealous? No, Is dog not trained properly? yes.

I have seen dogs do behavior that does look like jealous. Like the dog who was going into the obedience ring to perform. Owner pets somebody elses dog on way into ring. Owner sets up... dog makes monkey out of owner in obedience ring and the class is a disaster. Owner swears dog was jealous... looks like it, but me... I think owner broke carefully set concentration.. scented hands with another dogs scent... and messed up own dog before entering ring. Not jealous...

Dogs live to please us. Once we figure out how they tick.. we can break down each appeared human emotion and find a perfectly normal dog emotion to explain the behavior. So.. in answer... No.. I don't think dogs are jealous. We disturb the pack dynamics by interacting with dogs... Pack dynamics are fastinating. If we could educate more owners to study their dogs and stop trying to force human emotional labels on the dogs, then we could have happier dogs and better behaved dogs. So many dogs dumped or rejected are simply very intellegent, normal dogs that lack proper training and understanding and have been treated like humans instead of dogs. I think treating a dog like a human is bad for the dog. They deserve to be treated like dogs and that is a compliment to them. Dogs are awesome.

 

[shorthorsemom]

ps, service dogs shouldn't be petted anyway. Owner should remind folks of that. Only therapy dogs should invite petting.

Just thought of that one. My friend used to train for guiding eyes and she didn't allow petting of service pup when wearing vest.

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

Temple Grandin explains animal emotions well. I think you would rather like her book "animals make us human." It describes how multiple species "work."

 

[disneyhorse]

I guess the question is "does the dog brood in jealously when the situation is not immediate?" Probably not. Humans are jealous just thinking about a situation that may or may not even be true! "I heard that Roy got the promotion through the rumor mill... If that's true I'm so mad!" That's not an emotion a dog probably possesses.

 

[AFewSpotsMostlyBlack]

Yesterday I was given something to think about. At garden club, there was a man with a papillion dog. The dog was wearing a service vest, so I presumed the owner had some sort of disability, but I couldn't discern anything. When various members came up and offered a polite knuckle for the dog he was holding to sniff, the dog growled and even lunged at one person.

So, my first reaction is the the dog is jealous and doesn't want interference with its master. I've seen horses react this way.

A member who appeared to have some authority in dog behavior said "dogs are not jealous". She and the dog owner then had a conversation, but I went into the meeting and did not hear it.

Having had a "jealous" dog, I could hardly believe that animals cannot be jealous, but the more I think of it, the more I am thinking it is more a herd/pack dynamic and the "jealous" behavior is the result of weak leadership.

I've been around horses that appeared to exhibit jealous behavior, and I guess I was anthromorphizing them, giving them human emotions.

It's hard not to give human characteristics to animals, when one sees them react/interact in human-like manners. Any trainers who can shed some light on this issue?

(Is it possible for someone weathy and influential to get a Service Dog certificate for an animal, just so he can have the pleasure of taking the animal everywhere with him?)

I think the better term is resource guarding, and it can come in a variety of different forms, from food to their humans to their favorite toy, their own body or even a particular 'spot' or personal space. ALL dogs have the potential for this and many times dogs actually do this without anyone knowing (I can't tell you how many times I've seen it with the owners being clueless) but proper training/socializing will prevent this from starting. Some dogs are more prone to it than others but I believe you can work most dogs through it if you approach it correctly.

Jealous is the anthropomorphic description of it but I don't know that it's the same as we believe in jealousy, mostly because jealousy often comes with a grudge and I just don't believe dogs hold grudges like that. Either way you call it, that doesn't make the issue any less serious. Chances are the dog is guarding either itself or it's human. I wouldn't necessarily call the dog bad or even unfixable, but I would definitely want to nip it in the bud before a bite does occur...and it will if things are left unchecked.

 

[MountainWoman]

Marsha, anyone can buy a service dog vest from numerous websites so it's possible the dog wasn't a "certified" service dog. Also service dog vests usually have a patch embroidered on them and that patch further identifies them and the job they are doing. Unfortunately people do say dogs are service dogs when they aren't. A working service dog should always be wearing his/her vest when out working in the public. And a service dog should be able to be approached. Although people should not pet a service dog without asking the owner, many people do see a dog out in situations that are uncommon and especially children are apt to run over to see the dog. Service dogs who are certified through various programs such as Delta Pet Partners undergo extensive training and then testing and temperament testing is always part of the testing. These incredible dogs are put into situations such as flying on planes, going on crowded elevators, etc. and they have to have the correct disposition. Can dogs get jealous? Yes, I believe so as in territorial. Food aggression, place aggression (such as not getting off of a sofa) and yes, guarding their people. It's all a form of "jealousy" in the canine world that has to do with "this is mine." That kind of aggression needs to be stopped before it becomes entrenched and only by an experienced dog trainer. Unfortunately when a dog bites, it's the dog that pays the price ultimately.

 

[Becky Horat]

Mountain Woman is very correct. Unfortunately there are many places to "certify" your dog as a service dog over the internet and it does NOT have to be properly trained or pass a socialization test. I do NOT agree with this when it jeopardizes the public. There are many service dogs used for detecting seizures or helping an anxious person cope with public situations and I think this is great if they've gone thru the proper certification program. Dogs that act in this manner give the rest of our service dogs a bad rep. Being in the animal dog profession for many years, I see this quite often. Either aggressive or fearful dogs will react in this manner when being approached while: in owners arms/lap, in a vehicle, crate, yard or any of their "own" boundry. Many times, this same dog not in the owners' arms/lap will not act like this. As a dog groomer/vet tech. fearful and aggressive dogs should not be reached for when in a crate and feeling cornered. This will automatically cause them to feel the need to defend themselves. Once these same dogs are leashed and removed from the crate or owner, they will generally act much better. Leaning over a dog is also a threatening position and will cause the dog to do the same. Again....when we've gone through therapy programs it's important the dog does not act this way in a public situation. I've seen many people get bit or injured, including children. One must consider the liability as well. Just my opinion.

 

[MountainWoman]

If you want to delve more into the topic of "jealousy," there is a wonderful book by Jean Donaldson, a fantastic trainer, called "Mine, A Practical Guide to Resource Guarding in Dogs." And I agree with everything Becky said. Psychiatric service dogs play an invaluable part for their humans but there are many people who take advantage of unseen disabilities and put a service vest on a dog and try to take them anywhere. You can even print up fake i.d. badges for these dogs. Don't know if you remember the story of the service pig someone took on an airplane a few years back that caused total chaos on the plane. As with everything in life, there are people who take advantage of the system. True service dogs play an invaluable part in allowing people to be out and about and living life.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Temple Grandin explains animal emotions well. I think you would rather like her book "animals make us human." It describes how multiple species "work."

I ordered this book. Living so close to our animals makes me forget that they ARE animals and don't "think" like people. She approaches animals from such an unusual viewpoint, I think it will be an interesting read.

I find that since my strong-willed gelding has the retired brood mare for a companion now, he is much more mellow. The other companions I had for him were young and fiesty and I guess he was on his guard all the time defending his #2 spot. Now, he just gives his new companion a token nip occassionally to show he's boss and our herd dynamics seem much quieter. I don't have to work so hard to keep my spot as #1. No signs of "jealousy" any more.

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

I ordered this book. Living so close to our animals makes me forget that they ARE animals and don't "think" like people. She approaches animals from such an unusual viewpoint, I think it will be an interesting read.

I find that since my strong-willed gelding has the retired brood mare for a companion now, he is much more mellow. The other companions I had for him were young and fiesty and I guess he was on his guard all the time defending his #2 spot. Now, he just gives his new companion a token nip occassionally to show he's boss and our herd dynamics seem much quieter. I don't have to work so hard to keep my spot as #1. No signs of "jealousy" any more.

I think anyone who owns any animal more than a fish should read Temple Grandin's work. I will warn you, a lot of pet owners don't buy into her because she will NOT tell you what you want to hear (ie huggy kissy boo boo animals are lovey nice all the time!) but instead, what is really true! She admits they have emotions, needs, etc, however, does not put them at the same level as people, cause well, they aren't people. She's pro humane slaughter, totally pro farming, and speaks from an educated agriculutralist point of view, not a pet lover. I cannot get enough of her work! I own Animals in Translation too. Another good read!

 

[Tab]

An animal can be protective of his master, lord it over his master, or be jealous of the attention another animal or human receives from its master. I've seen all of the above.