@$#@#% AMHR!

[ThreeCFarm]

I just got my filly's papers back from AMHR, and I marked her down as being white. She is a max expression sabino, NO CREAM. Her papers came back as being perlino! Both of her parents are red, so there is no chance at being cream. Also, to be a perlino, she would have to be black based, when she is obviously red based, considering her sire and dam. I called and was told that white isn't an option (I just checked the R website, and it darn sure is an option!), and that their "DNA color" doesn't matter, that they always go by what they look like. I wasn't even trying to register her by what she really is, which would be chestnut/sorrel, I was happy with white. Then, she asked if my filly's eyes were blue, and she said that that combined with her white color and pink skin makes her a perlino, and I heard someone in the background saying that she "darn sure is a perlino."

BTW, white is listed on the Markings and Measuring Guide, and perlino isn't. But according to the person I spoke to, white isn't an option and perlino is.

Sigh...

For reference, here is the filly in question:

Here's her sire:

Here's her dam:

 

[K Sera]

 

[ThreeCFarm]

Hey Lynne! I guess it will be your problem shortly, huh? At least you know what Lily is and what she isn't.

 

[cretahillsgal]

Maybe the people in the office need to get a refresher course on horse color genetics.

 

[Becky]

I've been told the office personnel do not have the authority to change the color over what the owner sends in. I'd talk to a director.

 

[K Sera]

I was sitting at work reading the previous posts on the issues of color and registration and was wondering how she would be seen... how ironic! Like JoAnne at Pacific Pintos stated she does with her foals ... sending DNA testing might resolve that .... maybe! I really want to test for Agouti and I would think she would be homozygous sabino and I will test for that to see for sure.

Hmmmmmm ..... what else? LOL .... cream? LOL

 

[MindyLee]

Perlino! She looks to be a smoky black to me! LOL

 

[K Sera]

While we're laughing about color and what others see ... (ThreeC, this is for you!) when the vet was out Friday and his assistant was filling out paperwork for the coggins on Mia, he told him to put "grey" as her color. I said NO, she is a blue roan .... and he sat there for a second and said, BLUE ROAN ... Well, he**, she looks grey to me! You have to know my vet! LOL

(FYI ... AMHR has Mia described correctly!

)

 

[ThreeCFarm]

LOL, MindyLee, why not?

Becky, I just sent an email out, we'll see what happens. Thanks for the info.

K Sera, Lily's sire doesn't carry agouti, but her dam does so Lily may have inherited it. As far as testing for sabino, she is homozgyous for the gene that they test for...sb1 I think they call it? The one that causes max expression? That is my understanding, anyway. I know I don't need to test Lily's dam now, as she obviously carries it and we already knew her sire does.

LOL on your vet, my vet now just waits for me to tell her what color my minis are when I bring them in. The silver thing really throws her!

 

[Songcatcher]

Seems to me that AMHR has a lot of problems they need to straighten out in the office.

 

[ohmt]

I have the same problem with AMHR EVERY SINGLE YEAR. I've never had a year where they've sent me back papers that had the right color and/or pattern that I put on there. Now, I am no expert, but I have been studying DNA, genetics, and equine colors/patterns for years and years now and have gotten pretty good at it. They like to mark my appaloosas as pintos, bays as black or chestnut, they put my light silver black mare as cremello (NO blue eyes!!), and my silver red dun mare as palomino. UGGHHHHH

I don't even bother with AMHR when it comes to colors/patterns anymore. I just make sure it's right on the horse's AMHA papers

 

[ruffian]

Seems to me that AMHR has a lot of problems they need to straighten out in the office.

Now see, I don't think that's true. If I were looking at this filly, and ONLY this filly because all I had were the pictures of the FILLY, then I would call her a perlino. Those folks who are completely intelligent on color genetics - I'm not by ANY means - would probably understand all this much more easily, but for us poor ignorant souls who look at what is standing in front of us, the genetic color doesn't mean a whole lot. Other than LWO. Since color is the LAST thing I am worried about when choosing breeding animals, I don't pay much mind to the parents or grand parents, or great grand parents.

IMO the office folks do a terrific job with the information (AND PAY) they are given. I had a colt that I sent in as a pinto, even took a picture of the small slash of white on his side to prove he's a color. He came back as a solid dun, so I called the office and they rechecked the paperwork and corrected them at no charge.

Remember they don't have all the background colors in front of them. I would just be nice and call and see if you can work it out. The folks in the office are intelligent and hard working folks who get very little kudoes for the good work they do.

 

[SHANA]

Well I sent in my appy stallions papers to be transfered and brought permanent and he is listed as a grullo. He is a grullo appaloosa. AMHA has him as a Grullo Appaloosa. The pictures I sent AMHR you can see he is a appy no question about it.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

I have one, too. Chestnut with flaxen mane and tail. AMHA put: chestnut flaxen m/t. AMHR: PALOMINO. Not a chance! Dam IS a palomino but her daughter sure isn't...

Does this mare look palomino to you?



The above pic is the one ON her papers!



Lucy

 

[ohmt]

IMO the office folks do a terrific job with the information (AND PAY) they are given. I had a colt that I sent in as a pinto, even took a picture of the small slash of white on his side to prove he's a color. He came back as a solid dun, so I called the office and they rechecked the paperwork and corrected them at no charge

I gave them the benefit of the doubt the first couple of times, but after a ton of phone calls and them saying they wouldn't change my few spot appaloosa stallions papers from pintaloosa to appaloosa without me having to pay the $20 fee even though I sent a copy of his original papers in which I clearly put "bay appaloosa", I am just not a happy camper.

Now see, I don't think that's true. If I were looking at this filly, and ONLY this filly because all I had were the pictures of the FILLY, then I would call her a perlino. Those folks who are completely intelligent on color genetics - I'm not by ANY means - would probably understand all this much more easily, but for us poor ignorant souls who look at what is standing in front of us, the genetic color doesn't mean a whole lot.

If they are CHANGING what the owners are putting down, then they better have a pretty good basic understanding of colors and patterns. Now, since AMHR puts the colors and patterns of sires and dams on their registrations now, if they are going to change colors from what the owner has checked, they should be able to look at the sire and dam and know that a red+red does not equal black. They could have at least put cremello so the base color would be correct.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

No this has started eversince pictures were put on the papers. You can say one color and if they feel that its not the right color they will change it themselves. Personally they need to stop doing this. Like Lucy's mare, I'm sorry but why would you think she is a palomino? How many actual palomino's you seen colored like that, very often not that many. The people at the office are making things worse then better when it comes to color IMO. It costs you postage to return things to the office whether is free to get it corrected or not.

 

[Charlotte]

This is a red dun pinto/appaloosa mare according to AMHA. According to AMHR she is solid red dun. I guess she has a skin condition.

But in truth, what we should be doing is writing a formal complaint to the office and our director. If enough people do that some changes might be made.

I, for one, am REALLY frustrated by incorrect colors on paperwork. I've had situations where buyers questioned my honesty because of the incorrect color listed on papers and I've had issues at shows because of the color being listed wrong, so it is an important mistake.

Charlotte

 

[Katiean]

Would it be such a problem for AMHR or AMHA for that fact, If they think the color is different than the owner put, give the owner a call? Discuss it and come to an agreement?

 

[ThreeCFarm]

My main issue is that I put down white, and I was told they go by what the horse looks like. Does she not look white to anyone else? Also, that I was told white isn't a color choice, when the registration application lists it. I did call AMHR and tried to work this out over the phone, but with her insisting that white isn't an option, and that my choices were palomino or perlino, and that since her eyes are blue, that makes her a perlino, what am I supposed to do?

 

[Mock2Farms]

Well if those are the only options and she is technically a "max pinto".. Why not list her as a chestnut pinto? She have a spot anywhere, in her ear maybe!? lol - All joking aside, she looks white to me. If they are going to be so closed minded to say just because she has blue eyes and is white she IS A perlino then maybe they shouldn't have the authority to change colors. I don't think they need to be changing colors anyways, we see the horses in person, they see a picture..