AMHR/ASPC Point Systems

[alphahorses]

In some ways, our point systems is quite different from the systems other breeds use. In your opinion, what are some of the positives and negatives about the ASPC/AMHR HOF, All Star, and POY point systems?

(Now please be nice and do not bash the office staff or show managers if you've had bad experiences.

)

Here are my thoughts. I know this is rather long, but I really am interested in everyone's opinion even if you don't have time to read through all this.

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A. All Stars & HOF

1. Positives

a. Both rewards people for showing (HOF rewards you if you are the only entry; All Stars rewards everyone)

b. Both are easy to track on the club website.

c. You get multiple points Area and National shows

d. Rewards are objective (you either get enough points to win or you don't)

2. Negatives - All Stars

a. It’s a little complicated. You first have to determine your show type (AA, A, B, C), then consult tables to determine your points.

b. Points are based on your placing, and does not reward you based on how many horses you win over.

c. It is not consistent as it does not include all placings. If you win 8th out of 20 in a class, you get no All Star Points, but if you win first and are the only horse in the class, you do get points.

3. Negatives - HOF

a. Does not reward all horses/ponies consistently. For example:

• Horse # 1 is the only horse in a division and therefore gets 5 points (1 for age class + 1 for Sr/Jr + 3 for Grand).

• Horse # 2 is 2nd out of 6 (i.e. won over 4 other horses), then Reserve Sr/Jr then Reserve Grand. Horse # 2 gets only 2 points (1 for its age class and 1 for Res Grand).

• So Horse #1 got 2.5 times the points that Horse # 2 received, even though Horse# 1 had no competition and Horse #2 won over 4 other horses.

b. Somewhat difficult to calculate. You need to consult a table in the Rule Book to determine your points. Therefore subject to errors.

C. Horse of the Year / Pony of the Year

1. Positives

a. Rewards people both for showing and for winning over competition.

b. Given to very few horses/ponies each year, and therefore remains somewhat prestigious.

2. Negatives

a. Formula is complicated

b. Status cannot be tracked on the club website

c. Some subjectivity in the reward (because the formula doesn't work?)

D. 3 Different Point Systems

1. Positives

a. Someone needs to help me with this one

2. Negatives

a. Makes more work for show managers (and, I assume, for the office?)

b. Adds complexity (and therefore cost) to any show management program that the office needs to buy or build and maintain

 

[JMS Miniatures]

To me the all stars are pretty easy to remeber and reward. Doesn't matter how many are in their if you place 1st thru 5th you get points.

HOF can be tricky but the more you go after it the better you understand. As it does matter how many horses are in the classes to get points and if your the only one in the championship class yes you get all your all-star and hof points but not the grands that you have won. Its a matter of keeping track and the rulebook helps with that. It also helps that they do have it on their site.

The Horse or Pony of the year awards I still get confused about. Especially the performance horses of the year. I believe they only take the points for driving and IMO should be taken for all of the performance divisions.

 

[muffntuf]

HOF points are easy to figure - but not the same for all divisions in the respect that Moderns and ASPR ponies can only have a maximum of 2 judges, therefore it is harder to get a pony HOF'd.

All Stars is easy to track , easy to calculate via the web only because you are right you have to know what the show is rated first to figure your points if you track them yourself.

HOF/POY - this is the one that is really subjective, there is a formula or was one in the rule book, but often if you calculate the animals points - the one animal that wins not always has the most points. When asked why one animal one over another - it is a murky answer.

 

[Minimor]

I've often wondered about the HOF points system--and actually the point table for HOF is exactly the same as the point table we had for the Canadian Morgan high point awards years ago (likely still the same now, I just haven't kept up with it in recent years so cannot say for sure what they are using). It never makes sense to me that if you get 1st out of 1 or 2 horses you get 1 point, yet if you get 5th out of 12 entries you get no points....or if you get 7th out of 16 (or 25) you get 0 points....while 6th out of 15 or more entries is worth only one point.

Is 1st out of 1 or 2 really worth the same points as 6th out of 15, or worth more points than 7th or even 10th out of a class of 60 (for instance at Nationals)?

 

[ruffian]

The only thing wrong with yearlly awards is that the folks in the north don't really stand a chance against those in the warmer states. Just stating facts - our show season in Michigan doesn't even starting until Late May, June, and is certainly over by Worlds or Nationals. So we get maybe 4-5 months to get points. Those in the warmer states can show pretty much all year long. The good thing is that there are "area" awards, so at least those compensate for the yearly awards.

 

[Devon]

The only thing I really don't like is All Stars.. Our show season is short June-Nationals as well as the fact it depends how many shows you can get too not consistancy of wins!

 

[JMS Miniatures]

The only thing I really don't like is All Stars.. Our show season is short June-Nationals as well as the fact it depends how many shows you can get too not consistancy of wins!

Well I sort of agree with you, some claim it as a trailer race. I still think its a great accomplishment. Atleast they did add the Canadian All-Star awards. They use to award the champion and reserve in each area and I wish they would bring that back.

 

[LostInOz]

I disagree with the 'warm states' as having an advantage. We may have a longer show season, but we don't have as many shows offered.

in the end it IS a trailer race - many divisions I could have been #1 if I had just showed that class at (insert show here)

HOY/POY is really poorly done. Someone needs to re-vamp that one and come up with an easier program. But then we also need a NEW computer program where we can go back and look up show records for ALL ponies in the system for any given year.

 

[targetsmom]

I know practically nothing about AMHR points, but am quite familiar with the Pinto Association point system and think the other registries could learn from it. In PtHA, all the points are calculated the same way - for horse of the year (HOY) and all the other awards. There must be three in a class to earn any points, and then you get a point (for each judge) for beating 2 horses, plus one point for each additional horse, up to a max of 6 points for first place in a class of 8. So the optimum class size is 8, where 6 entries will get points from each judge, with the first place winner getting 6 points, down to 1 point for 6th. Members can get a PIN number and log in to E-Pinto on www.pinto.org to track their points (or anyone else's). The website also list the HOY points and is updated periodically.

What I like about that system is that you don't get points just for showing up, and it seems fair to me that 1st out of 3 or 6th out of 8, each get one point (for beating 2 horses). Also, the points accumulate pretty fast if the class sizes are reasonable. If the competition is fairly even, at a multi-judge show it is common for several horses to each earn 10 or more points in the same class. Earn 35 points and you get a Register or Merit (ROM) and keep going until you have 1,000 points (for a mini) and meet specific requirements for halter and performance (NOT easy) and earn your Supreme Champion Award.

 

[Minimor]

I don't really think that the southerners have an unfair advantage. I have noticed that TX, for instance, has more shows (when you count TX and OK alone) than we have here. But, those shows there have fewer judges--the ones I've taken notice of have 2 judges each. So, you go to 4 shows and get 8 judges/8 sets of points. Here in Manitoba we had 2 shows this year--one had 1 judge/triple points and the other had 4 judges. So, 2 shows, 7 sets of points. My 7 sets of points cost me a lot less than what any of the TX exhibitors paid to get their 8 sets of points from twice as many shows.

My ponies are actually doing okay in the point standings this year, even though we went to only 2 shows. There is only 1 show left to post so I'll wait until that on is up to say for sure, but I think I will receive a few Champion & Reserve All star certificates for 2010. Most of the others will be in the top ten standings. One got beat out by a pony that has hauled all over the place (not a southern pony either) and showed at 7 or 8 shows. Anyone can haul out of their area and show at more shows, even us northerners if we have the time, money and desire to do so. I can't complain because someone else chose to do so and I did not.

I'll point out in case some aren't aware of this All Star award change for 2010--in previous years all points were totalled up, with the grand total being used to determine placings in all divisions (regular class, jr. champion, grand champion). For 2010 the points collected in each class stay in that class. So, instead of having 4000 points in 2 year old halter, 3000 points in jr. champion and 3000 points in grand champion, the horse might have 800 points in 2 year old, 1200 points in jr. champion and 2000 points in Grand champion (making up numbers here!!) No classes will be combined or split--previouisly a show that offered 34" & under mares had, I think, the placings divided into 32-34 and 32 & under when it came to the all star tabulations. This year if the class is 34" and under then the points stay in 34" and under. Points in 32-34" stay in that class--so a horse might end up with 2 awards instead of just one, if he/she showed at several shows where the sizes were divided differently. Basically if the class is listed on any of the approved class lists in the rule book, that class will earn an all star award. It is going to change some placings as compared to previous years. I think this is a big improvement.

 

[jah97071]

I want to preface what I'm going to say with this information - Our first Shetland earned their HOF in 1969 and have since had Shetlands and Miniature Horses earn HOFs in the 70s, 80s, 90s and now in 07.

If you read in the rulebook the purpose of HOF is to give lifetime championship status to the breeds' greatest show ponies/horses and producers of show horses.

With this said, I truly believe HOF points should not be awarded in any class where there is only one in the class. How does not having competition in a class consistently make any pony/miniature horse truly a champion? I know some will use the argument then their pony/miniature horse will never earn HOF status, but maybe not every pony/miniature horse is meant to earn the title but saved only for the breeds' greatest. Over the many years we have had ponies/miniature horses that didn't earn HOF status and that was OK. I also believe that in the classes that do not offer championship or stake classes then the show record should include at least 5 first place wins. With the system the way it is now Shetlands/Miniature horses could earn HOF status without ever winning a class in categories where there are no championship/grands offered. Again how does not winning a class ever make a Shetland/Miniature Horse truly a lifetime champion?

I would really like to see earning HOF made harder than easier so that it is an award that truly fits the purpose for which it was orginally established.