AMHA B HORSE

[LaVern]

It is hard to compete with another breed when most of your top horses are hidden. Sadly, we have never gotten to see a lot of our top 34-38 inch horses. These outstanding individuals from top farms have never been seen. Can you imagine what they could have done with those top trainers on the lead. But they couldn't throw the papers in so there they stand.

I will forever be grateful that Stacy Score of Mountain Meadows, for putting Express out for all the World to see. How much easier would it have been for her to just hide him behind the barn, like so many do.

 

[Magic]

Prince is 34", but he's not over. Well, unless he's riled up or something, like the first time he took National Grand Champion as an over horse, but he's been measured as under many, many times too. It's tough when your horse is right on the line.

I have a Mountain Meadows mare (not related to Prince, but she did produce his very first foal ever) who is close to 38" but has two under, AMHA/AMHR parents. I showed her on a limited basis and in once class she beat out the ASPC/AMHR mares that were in her class. This was after she had had her first foal too.

I guess you're talking about AMHA registered horses that have gone over though, and the owners are still retaining their AMHA papers so don't want those horses seen? It really is too bad. I've bought quite a few of those kind of horses (sold with the AMHA papers, which I then toss, because the horse isn't truly AMHA anymore). NOT in the case with buying the mare from Stacy, Mountain Meadows-- she told me honestly how tall the mare was!

With only one exception, all of my B size horses are AMHR papered only. I raise a lot of appaloosas and they are not allowed in ASPC of course. I continually add in whatever bloodlines and types that I think will improve my horses, but I'm PROUD of my AMHR only, B size horses. Even if they are "gone over 34 inches" AMHA horses.

 

[andi]

Ohhh, I would just LOVE to post a list of the AMHA registered B size horses that the owners have been so "proud" enough to put on display at the AMHR nationals. Some have been at the hands of our very top trainers and won "top", to "not so top" (gated), placings.

 

[albahurst]

I can't wait to take my beautiful boy out and show him in the over class this year! Watch out

 

[Mona]

Magic, I believe Renee was referring to "Express" (Mountain Meadows D's American Express) not "Prince".

 

[LaVern]

Not talking about Prince, who was proven. I am talking about his sire Express- a stallion who's parents were AMHA and he went to 36.

 

[Magic]

OH! Sorry about that. I hadn't realized that Express was over. I saw him in person one year but he wasn't being shown, he was just being transported for new owners.

Most of my AMHA horses are very close to 34", but they are also registered AMHR, so any foals they have that go over (and several will of course, being that close to the limit), well, I still have a very nice, still-registered foal that I am very proud of. In fact, it's actually really kind of nice-- then I only have the expense of registering that horse in ONE registry instead of two, lol!

 

[MindyLee]

I took my 34" mare to a AMHR show 2 yrs ago and had her going into the 32-34" classes. The steward & witness was kinda jumping all over me cause she was clearly a B horse and when they saw her AMHA paperwork in my folder they really got mad. Well I explained that she measures right on at 34" every time I measure her at home on my driveway. So as they arrgued with me about her hight they measured her in. They both looked at me and remeasured her 2 more times. 34" ON THE DOT every time! Needless to say, I was really happy that they both were wrong and put their foot in their mouths. I said its her legs that makes her look taller!

I can say its real funny how you can see big horses in a smaller class when you know for a fact that they dont belong there.

Also another thing I really hate! When someone says a certin horse is so-n-so and measures small. Shows them & permotes them and is very very well known with high $ foals. When really its a different horse that is the same color in the public eye when the real horse is home and is bigger and hidding behind the barn. The bigger horse is breeding the mares so the DNA matchs BUT the public sees the wrong horse promoted as the known horse because hes smaller!

 

[Sandee]

It's amazing what those 34" horses can learn though. I have an OLD show gelding that is 33.75" (ah-hum). If he goes to measure all tense and stands stiff he's over 34 which he was for the first 2 years I owned him. Then my daughter came along and worked with him. When she took him to measure I saw him give a big sigh, drop his back and walla under 34! Now that I kow it's funny to watch him.

 

[LaVern]

James are you talking about horses that show B, are over 34 1/2 and keep Amha papers? That's ----'s huh? I'm not talking about 1/2 inch (that can go either way on any different day,or there could be a screwball steward at one show, but more than 34 1/2 any age, at lots of shows. Hey send me your address.

 

[Eohippus]

Also another thing I really hate! When someone says a certin horse is so-n-so and measures small. Shows them & permotes them and is very very well known with high $ foals. When really its a different horse that is the same color in the public eye when the real horse is home and is bigger and hidding behind the barn. The bigger horse is breeding the mares so the DNA matchs BUT the public sees the wrong horse promoted as the known horse because hes smaller!

People actually do that? It doesn't make sense to me. If the smaller doppelganger horse is the one people are seeing, liking the look and conformation of, and is winning... Why not just breed and promote that one? If the doppelganger isn't actually showing, just being presented for measuring, and the bigger one is used in pictures and that's all any one really ever sees... I guess that way makes more sense?

 

[Becky]

Also another thing I really hate! When someone says a certin horse is so-n-so and measures small. Shows them & permotes them and is very very well known with high $ foals. When really its a different horse that is the same color in the public eye when the real horse is home and is bigger and hidding behind the barn. The bigger horse is breeding the mares so the DNA matchs BUT the public sees the wrong horse promoted as the known horse because hes smaller!

Wow! Whoever is doing that is looking at not so good repercussion from AMHA if it's found out.

 

[ruffian]

Also another thing I really hate! When someone says a certin horse is so-n-so and measures small. Shows them & permotes them and is very very well known with high $ foals. When really its a different horse that is the same color in the public eye when the real horse is home and is bigger and hidding behind the barn. The bigger horse is breeding the mares so the DNA matchs BUT the public sees the wrong horse promoted as the known horse because hes smaller!

I guess I don't understand this . . . if the "smaller" horse is out being promoted, showing, and winning, why would someone keep a "bigger" horse and use that one for breeding.

 

[Riverrose28]

I guess I don't understand this . . . if the "smaller" horse is out being promoted, showing, and winning, why would someone keep a "bigger" horse and use that one for breeding.

JMO, but maybe the foals are more leggy and have a longer neck, look better. Only problem is, then they sell them to someone non-suspecting, and the horse goes over, and can't be shown anymore in AMHA. Just a thought!

 

[LaVern]

Also another thing I really hate! When someone says a certin horse is so-n-so and measures small. Shows them & permotes them and is very very well known with high $ foals. When really its a different horse that is the same color in the public eye when the real horse is home and is bigger and hidding behind the barn. The bigger horse is breeding the mares so the DNA matchs BUT the public sees the wrong horse promoted as the known horse because hes smaller!

This one has me stumped too. Misrepresentation to say the least.

 

[Riverrose28]

My head is also not buried in the sand! I've seen many big name farms take mares and foals to big name shows and it is obvious the mare is over, but the taller the foal is, the more likely it is to win! Maybe it will go over, maybe not. What this says is buyer beware. I my self have bought several AMHA registered only foals and had them go over and had to pay to get them into AMHR. Only problem with that is since they are only one quarter inch to one half inch over, they won't place over the much taller, longer necked AMHR/ASPC horses. So my conclusion is they are now worthless resale wise. Some of them are my favorites. On that note, I'm too old to keep changing my breeding program, and am no longer breeding. Maybe if the economy picks up I'll get on the band wagon, but for now I'm in limbo! Just trying real hard to hang in there.

 

[andi]

Yes, "those ones"

Just this year we had AMHA reg. horses showing in the 34-36 yearling class. I am sure those horses will be "hidden" now. We will be told they "matured early", as in fully at 12 months, and the half inch defense will be used later on. But quite frankly, if you have your horse with a professional trainer, who is "being paid to measure the horse in"(another grossly abused excuse), I don't buy into the whole, it was only a half inch crud. With all the tactics we use, between growing hair out, cutting hooves down, stretching, and a million other less scrupulous technique, if you are STILL 1/2 an inch over, you are more than likely actually an inch.

I don't think it is a lack of pride keeping the horses out of the ring, more just Greed. People don't want to lose what has been thought in the past as more "valuable" papers. I think we are seeing a change though, what with the value becoming more level across the board. Also a change is coming because people are realizing AMHA WONT TAKE THE PAPERS. You can parade them around and show them with NO FEAR of losing your papers. I am sure there are many that will blame me for just saying that out loud, but at the end of the day we all need to say what we see going on.

Right now we have horses in AMHA who were brought permanent by their owners. The owners filled out the back of the papers, stating that "on this day I have measured this horse and found it to be 35" or more. They then turned around and send their hardship form into AMHA stating that in their opinion they have a horse that qualifies for hard shipping, under 34". We can’t even get those horses out. 

Sorry for Highjacking your thread Renee

 

[Riverrose28]

Yes, "those ones"

Just this year we had AMHA reg. horses showing in the 34-36 yearling class. I am sure those horses will be "hidden" now. We will be told they "matured early", as in fully at 12 months, and the half inch defense will be used later on. But quite frankly, if you have your horse with a professional trainer, who is "being paid to measure the horse in"(another grossly abused excuse), I don't buy into the whole, it was only a half inch crud. With all the tactics we use, between growing hair out, cutting hooves down, stretching, and a million other less scrupulous technique, if you are STILL 1/2 an inch over, you are more than likely actually an inch.

I don't think it is a lack of pride keeping the horses out of the ring, more just Greed. People don't want to lose what has been thought in the past as more "valuable" papers. I think we are seeing a change though, what with the value becoming more level across the board. Also a change is coming because people are realizing AMHA WONT TAKE THE PAPERS. You can parade them around and show them with NO FEAR of losing your papers. I am sure there are many that will blame me for just saying that out loud, but at the end of the day we all need to say what we see going on.

Right now we have horses in AMHA who were brought permanent by their owners. The owners filled out the back of the papers, stating that "on this day I have measured this horse and found it to be 35" or more. They then turned around and send their hardship form into AMHA stating that in their opinion they have a horse that qualifies for hard shipping, under 34". We can’t even get those horses out. 

Sorry for Highjacking your thread Renee

I've seen it too, and actually I think Renee will appreciate your insite.

 

[LaVern]

Oh, James this is too much. I can't stop laughing. It is all too crazy. How on earth can we do such a disservice to these little horses? And then to promote this bunch of lies and this behavior to our youth. "The Youth is Our Future, those lucky kids.

On the other hand, maybe it is not so bad to tell lies about something as long as you are truthful and tell or show them it is a lie. ( Oh,Boy)

 

[TomEHawk]

LaVern, I say the same thing about some of our Shetlands that we bred that were very nice and had all the ablitiy to win at the Congress, that were sold to someone from the "mini" world that wanted to start showing Shetlands. Then the ponies never seem to change ownership & some never even registered, (because I messed up and sold on a registration application). Then a few years down the road, I've seen a few of them in the AMHR B classes or a few miniatures with the exact look of our Shetland stallions or our Shetland mares.