2008 AMHR Nationals Results

[tagalong]

Just wondering if there had been any official word about this mess yet - and if (please not that I said IF) rules were broken (even accidentally) why any results would be shifted back to the supposed "unqualified" horses keeping their placings. Or maybe I misunderstood - I am sure I am not the only one who finds this all a bit confusing...

 

[Dkminis]

I don't know the whole story on this, lots of confusion. But if there was horses not qualified, then they sould not keep there place. An fined & banned form showing. Etc The people that should win have already lost the glory of the Nation show winning & Photos etc.

Also not long ago Amhr fined & banned some farms for 5 yrs. I don't see that this is any different in the two offinces

(if this was truly done) There was inicent people involved that are paying the price for what someone else done. Guess it is just who you are.

 

[~Lisa~]

After seeing how quickly the fiasco leaked out in the first place months ago it would be a shame for everyone to not get official word as to what happened, what the results were of the committee and any action taken.

 

[maestoso]

Just out of curiosity, How does everyone know that a particular horse, or several particular horses did not qualify. Did you get this information from the AMHR office directly? Did you read it off of the results listings(which are sometimes not accurate)? Did the offender tell you personally? Did you go to every single rated show and keep track yourself?

I think that rules should be followed, and if a horse isn't qualified than it isn't qualified and it shouldn't be there. But what I don't know is how everyone knows who is or isn't qualified other than their own horses and the horses they see shown in their own region . . . .

My next concern is why AMHR doesn't verify qualifications BEFORE the show. That's not just a slip up . . . . That's a big deal. I don't care if their are 1600 horses showing, then AMHR should take the time to verify that 1600 horses are qualified . . . .

I don't know who was involved and I know their are cheaters out there but I try to give people the benefit of the doubt and perhaps after showing dozens of horses all year they made a mistake and didn't realize a horse wasn't qualified. Do I think they should keep their award just because it may have been a mistake? No. But it's a mistake that wouldn't have happened if all horses' qualifications were verified prior to the start of the show . . . .

 

[susanne]

~~~~sigh~~~~

First The Bachelor, now AMHR....

 

[wpsellwood]

First The Bachelor, now AMHR....

LMAO

 

[Fred]

Matt if you read your AMHR rule book in the back it states the owner/agent is responsible for the horse being qualified. Not only that the names of the horses are on the master list of the shows they have been in. I DO know that any time I have shown at an AMHR show I have the receipt for the classes I have been in and no matter what it is pretty dumb if you don't keep the receipts with your papers as proof you have shown. If the horse is with a trainer the bill states the show the horse has been in or you pay for the entries yourself and have that receipt. The office does make mistakes but with the ease of qualifying the owner/agent needs to take some personal responsiblity and keep their papers together. In the past I do know that the horses qualifications were checked why they weren't this year I don't know but it does come down to personal responsiblity. Linda

 

[Amy]

Any time we have shown at the Nationals -- there is a spot on the form where you have to fill in what qualifying shows you are using to have qualified your horse. We didn't go last year -- so I am wondering if they have removed this line?? It made it very easy to show that your horse had been qualified.

 

[Minimor]

Amy, that line was missing on the 2008 entry forms--a clerical error from what I've been told, and I suspect that it will not be missing from the 2009 forms!

 

[gvpalominominis]

~~~~sigh~~~~
First The Bachelor, now AMHR....

OMG tooo funny..... (no ill meaning to the actual situation... but that's funny right there)

I agree with suzanne and I said it before... all the shows and their entrants information is within a computer system somewhere.... it seems the extra time that this fiasco has taken... the extra small amount of time it would have taken to verify qualifying shows for even EVERY single horse entered would have been less time, money and effort!!!

 

[Jessica_06]

~~~~sigh~~~~
First The Bachelor, now AMHR....

That is the funniest thing I've heard all Day!!!!!!

:rofl

:rofl

:rofl

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I have just read this and I think IMO if now AMHR changes its mind and goes back to the original placings they should have decided this BEFORE taking away awards. This is not good business. AMHR show department needs to get their act together thats all I can say.

Now I don't know who to belive anymore.

 

[littlearab]

I don't know the whole story on this, lots of confusion. But if there was horses not qualified, then they sould not keep there place. An fined & banned form showing. Etc The people that should win have already lost the glory of the Nation show winning & Photos etc.
Also not long ago Amhr fined & banned some farms for 5 yrs. I don't see that this is any different in the two offinces

(if this was truly done) There was inicent people involved that are paying the price for what someone else done. Guess it is just who you are.

As I read this, all I can say is you have hit it right on the head!!

I'm very disapointed to see that AMHR.. after all I and the other party have endured, nothing has changed. .I for one hoped and prayed that AMHR would change thier BIG BOY CLUB mind set but I see now it was all in vane...

And the sad part is AMHR members do nothing ,just sit back and say it's up to the BOD...

Who is AMHR??? A couple of big boys or the 1000s of small owners and breeders who foot the bills.

It truly is who you are and who you know..

A very bad refection on who and what AMHR is.

 

[Jill]

Here I am, the owner of a fully qualified horse who's win has been impacted by this turmoil through no fault of ours (it is the situation with another horse in the class that has caused the issue). It's been 6 months since the Nationals, and I still don't know if my guy is a National Grand Champion or a Reserve National Grand Champion. You know, I'd love to order some of the Center Ring Win and Victory Lap photos... What owner doesn't dream of having those sorts of pictures from the Nationals? But, I have been waiting to hear whether or not I need the pictures edited to "upgrade" the sign, ribbons and prizes from Reserve National Grand Champion to National Grand Champion (which Washburn can and will do if need be). This back and forth and drawn out time period really takes away something from the feeling of pride and accomplishment. I mean, with this level of a win is still up in the air after 6 months and that unqualified horses were allowed to even enter the Nationals ring -- it is just very upsetting. It also makes it hard not to wonder if there are too many foxes in the hen house

 

[Belinda]

http://www.whinny4me.com/Smileys/indifferent0014.gif[/img]

[SIZE=12pt]Jill , [/SIZE]

I would suggest calling Erica or your trainer to find out where your horse stands. But as it was already put on here , the placing will stand as they were at Nationals . and I know that everyone on here is having a hard time understanding , but this was NOT TAKEN LIGHTLY !! but there were Procedural errors on both parties being the ( exhibitors and the office..)

And the only way that we can think of to help see that this does not happen again. Is to do a couple of things, 1. Require points to qualify or 2. Require a horse to at least place !!!!! 3. Just drop any qualification period. !!! So maybe we should start a pole to see which way you all want it..

It is so easy for a person to sit here and say what a Good Ole Boys club it is , and trash the office for what they did or did not do , but I truly believe that they did the only thing that they could .

 

[Jill]

http://www.whinny4me.com/Smileys/indifferent0014.gif[/img]

[SIZE=12pt]Jill , [/SIZE]

I would suggest calling Erica or your trainer to find out where your horse stands. ...

Belinda --

When last I spoke to Erica, a few days ago, she had not heard. I guess being an owner who is listed on Destiny's papers didn't qualify me myself, as one involved, to be officially notified (as was posted would happen)? AMHR wouldn't want to go that extra mile and show that ounce of consideration for an owner after all this mess? Even though I have called the AMHR office previously about the situation. No, I'm sorry, but I don't feel the office or the BOD has done their best job in this matter. And, really, I've purposely not mentioned Erica in this discussion. My feelings about this matter should not be considered a reflection on her own feelings

Whatever people want as far as requiring actual wins to qualify for Nationals would be fine by me personally. However, you are not going to convince me that it's not possible for the registry to keep track of the horses who have entered and attended shows, even if they did not place. This eluded to excuse sounds to me like an attempt to explain away or make us wonder if horses "maybe" really attended enough shows (with those big name trainers?) and they just didn't happen to place. I guess you can call me disbelieving as well as disappointed with the situation

Maybe disqualifying the unqualified horses and moving up the other horses' placements would set a precedent AMHR is afraid of... because after learning about the current issue, I know I've been wondering if unqualified horses also showed and placed / won in 2007, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2003, 2002, 20001 (you get the idea). I bet it would be expensive and embarrassing for AMHR to defend if AMHR fixed things this time for 2008 and anyone really decided to press about whether or not unqualified horses also showed in the prior years' Nationals

The only good thing is that through LB, "a lot" of people know how messed up things are / have been, and maybe that will inspire change and improvement

Jill

 

[midnight star stables]

I was not directly affected by this; I'll openly state that.

However this does effect the whole club! My heart goes out to everyone directly involved; but I do believe that Belinda and the AMHR office it trying their best and I applaud them for that.

I do not know all of the details, so I won't pretend to. But I do know that there is a lot of legal issues and many to blame, however AMHR is trying to make a mend as fair as they can.

Question: What happen a few years ago when people were kicked out of AMHR for 5 years?

 

[~Lisa~]

Belinda first thank you for offically stating that placings will stand as judged at the National show. We had heard that here and then were quickly told that was not the findings of the BOD and heard nothing else since so I appreciate you letting us know.

Now not to be snide but being able to keep track of who showed where and when really should not be a impossible nor a difficult task I mean isn't that why we have such an expensive computer system? :arg!

Lastly Jill I am sorry you were not notified I would think as the owner listed on the papers you would surely have been told right after the Board meeting what the results for your horse were.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Jill,

I can feel your frustration in your words.

I can't tell you how sorry I am for what you and others have gone through. It has to be an emotional roller coaster ride. I also think it has been very classy of you to only refer to yourself and not mention any other owner or the trainer.

If I were you I would also be less than impressed with the way things have been handled. If Belinda is in fact correct that the placings stand and you weren't notified...well that is just the lowest of the lows and one more reason why I'm glad I don't "do" AMHR Nationals anymore. How freakin' difficult could it be to pick up the phone and make some calls?

Belinda, I know you're a big fan of AMHR and that you're really involved. I can appreciate that you have a different perspective than most since you're on the board (or whatever the correct term is). I can also see how even if horses weren't qualified, since the office doesn't keep detailed show records that someone could challenge their qualification, and threaten legal action, etc. to take the focus off whether they actually did qualify or not. I get all of that. I don't like it, but I get it. But to use all that as the reason/excuse an OWNER isn't officially notified just doesn't cut it IMO. Sorry, just isn't good business.

 

[Littleum]

So, Belinda, is anyone ever going to come clean on what actually happened?

I think that's what is causing a lot of hard feelings and parlor talk. No one has come clean and said "here's where the breakdown was"

Personally, just reading between the lines, I think it's nothing more then a lot of honest mistakes rolled into one big giant snowball. Embarassing yes, worthy of cloak & dagger? Ah... no. And to not keep owners of affected horses informed? Tsk tsk, it just heaps bad feelings on bad feelings, and makes people wonder why information is so hard to come by. Even people directly affected can't even get an explanation!

I'm sitting here and like I said, I'm willing to wager this is nothing more then a lot of honest mistakes. Which is a shame, because now it's just a mountain instead of a molehill!

You appeal to the membership that things need to get fixed, but that's really pointless. WHAT issues are we specifically to address? WHAT are we trying to fix and WHY? WHERE did the process breakdown previously?

It's like my boss tells me to redesign a database because current one just isn't working very well- but he then declines to tell me why the current structure isn't working for them or what they need it to do. Kind of two important things when you're trying to solve problems. When you are trying to fix things, sometimes the powers that be just have to allow you access to sensitive data.

If we can't be honest about what the problem was, how the heck are we supposed to fix it? Who's to say what caused it to happen in 2008 hasn't caused it before (and it just hasn't gotten caught) or it won't happen again?