Quantcast

Would you have...

Miniature Horse Talk Forums

Help Support Miniature Horse Talk Forums:

billiethekid40

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2003
Messages
931
Reaction score
0
My new lesee has informed me that she has cut Billie's feed because she noticed he was gaining weight. She hadn't had him home a full week when she did it, and our goal is for him to GAIN weight before winter. Would YOU have cut his feed? I spent the last month carefully raising the feed he was getting so he would start putting wieght on. I noticed he got to a certain weight and kinda stayed there. I finally found an amount that started him gaining again, and she seems to think that if he is gaining he needs to be cut back???? Anyway, Look at the 2 pics, taken about a week apart. I notice a *slight* increase, would you say he was gaining too fast?





Am I just paranoid cause he was neglected last winter????
 

lyn_j

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2002
Messages
6,159
Reaction score
1
[SIZE=14pt]No He still looks on the thinish side to me expecially in the hips. Remember that winter is coming again and I would rather see them pllump going into winter.... he isnt plump yet.[/SIZE]

Lyn
 

disneyhorse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2002
Messages
5,382
Reaction score
191
Nope, I'd agree with you that he doesn't look like he needs his feed cut.

Andrea
 

shminifancier

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2004
Messages
1,232
Reaction score
0
Location
Western Wisconsin
No not with winter coming on I would not cut his feed. A little bit heavier in the winter time is just fine. Keeps them warmer and can rely on the fat layer that way. along with the hair coat for warmth that way
 

Marty

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2002
Messages
13,596
Reaction score
520
Location
Tennessee
So glad you made it back. Always great to hear about you and Billie!

As far as cutting feed....

Nope, no way. You got him to finally turn the corner and the worst thing now would be to be cutting back on anything.

I hate to say this, but this is a red flag for me.

Fool me once, shame on you, ........fool me twice, shame on me........

Nope, you and Billy have been through way too much for that to be going on again.

I'd straighten that out really quick. Glad to hear you will be a lot closer to be checking up on Billy this time too. Good for you and Cheers!!!!
 

capall beag

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 20, 2005
Messages
2,137
Reaction score
0
Location
York Beach, Maine originally from Ireland!
No cutting!

I think he still needs to gain weight!

I couldn't imagine thinking this horse needs his feed cut!!!!

I think it is strange to change feeding instructions within a week of acquiring a horse?????

I would not like to hear that personally?
 

rabbitsfizz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2003
Messages
10,937
Reaction score
384
Location
England
Can you go over there and see him for yourself- and take a trailer with you?? The threat alone of losing him should be enough to make her pull her socks up. Please tell me you have a words of one syllable agreement with her, that is watertight and written down and signed?? You need to tell her who owns the horse- do it nicely but firmly. Tell her there will be NO feed changes without your say so and, if she does so, you will take him away. Tell her exactly why you are being so harsh- show her your pictures of him when you brought him home!! I've been through this- the horse never left home again!! I know you would do that if you could, but what you need form this person is a trustworthy friend for your horse, whilst you are unable to be- someone to fill the gap, NOT mess around with him- anyone could do that!!
 

billiethekid40

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2003
Messages
931
Reaction score
0
Thanks guys!

Yes, it is a HUGE red flag for me, especially when she would not/ could not tell me exactly how much she cut his feed. Her reasoning was that he is "gaining weight, filling out, and now he is on their pasture" DUH they are also driving him and the kids playing with him.... I didn't have time for that, if anything I would have UPPED his feed before putting him into a driving program where he is getting driven more than twice a week!

The problem is, it is a 4 hour drive, and I cannot make it up for a few more weeks. My mom had minor surgery but does not feel up to driving 8 hours in one day just yet and I work full time and can't get time off at the same time as my brother so I can't even get HIM to drive me until we both move to the city in 3 weeks.

But don't worry, everything is signed and sealed and I WILL NOT hesitate to trailer him home if need be... we didn't rip the fence out yet just for these reasons! I will be in touch with her today to find out EXACTLY what and when he is being fed, how much turnout he is getting, if the kids are wearing helmets, if the 9 year old is always supervised, and which stall he is in at their barn. (they split a 10X10 and I told them no, 5 foot by 10 was toooo narrow, so theyclaim their own horses are using them as tied stalls). She seems to get offended any time that I offer advice. I DO NOT CARE if she has had horses for the past 20 years, I have owned THIS horse since he was 9 months old, not to mention I OWN THIS HORSE NOW! I think I know how to care for him. I have a feeling they cut his feed just because they had the need to mess with SOMETHING and make him feel more like they had a hand in things. He wasn't getting that much if you ask me. He was on 3 cups of beet pulp and about 6 of pellets per day (split into 2 feeds) with pretty much ad-lib hay, no grazing. Now I am worried he will not continue to gain, and he had JUST started to put the weight back onto his shoulders- The harness still makes a straight line down his sides from the back saddle to his underbelly, it should round out. Not to mention I'm using the harness pad that i haven't had to use since I first trained him.

I really really want to give these people a chance, because I DO NOT have other options that are suitable right now! BUT I NEED someone who can follow instruction without being upset that I'm undermining their experience. HELP! How can I fix this problem quick before I end up so mad with the situation that I have to haul him home with no place to keep him for thre winter?
 

mizbeth

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2002
Messages
1,790
Reaction score
3
Oh boy!

Another mess it sounds like? Gosh I'm so sorry. The horse is theirs if your lease is tight, unless of course you can revoke it due to improper care and so forth. IN MY opinion, he could use some more weight. But if you can revoke a lease for improper care I would imagine the horse would have to go "way down hill" before you could do that. He is no where near that point as yet by those photos.

Are their any provisions in their for "red flags", sorry but you would have to have one. Can you cancel the lease and pick him up? Even if he appeared to be gaining weight at their place, it could be pasture bloat.

Of course everyone has an opinion of what feed is best as well. In their opinion he could be getting "the best feed".

If you feel badly about this already then I would be looking for a way to get the horse back. I wish you luck.

Beth
 

alphahorses

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
464
Reaction score
0
Location
OH
I don't see any ribs, and his coat appears to be shiny and healthy, so IMO he doesn't need to gain weight as much as he needs to the right TYPE of weight. He's become thin along the spine and hip, but his belly looks like it has more weight on it than his back and hips. Personally - if he were mine - I would increase his grain and protein just a little - not much - and even decrease the hay if he is being fed free choice. Maybe even add a vitamin & mineral suppl for a while. I assume he is being wormed? Get weight back on his spine again where he needs it and help him get balanced out a bit.

Seems like most people here would disagree - but I would try to get the RIGHT weight on him but I would not worry about getting a layer of fat on him for at least another 2 months - we still have 2 months of heat ahead! A horse that is a little thin (NOT SHOWING RIBS) but otherwise healthy and active - esp if he is getting free choice hay - is much more healthy than a horse that is overweight. My horses are mostly too chubby anyway, but for the ones that are not I try to keep them fit during summer, then don't start trying to get that extra layer of fat on them until the beginning of Fall. As with people, there are too many health complications that come from excess weight. Get the RIGHT weight on him (a bit more grain, less hay), then worry about fat in a few months.
 

Jill

Aspiring Cowgirl
Joined
Nov 30, 2002
Messages
27,182
Reaction score
525
Location
Spotsy., VA (USA)
No, I wouldn't have cut his feed either. He still needs to gain to be a good weight and is not even approaching being over weight at this point -- he needs more groceries!!!
 

alphahorses

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
464
Reaction score
0
Location
OH
billiethekid40 said:
I will be in touch with her today to find out EXACTLY what and when he is being fed, how much turnout he is getting, if the kids are wearing helmets, if the 9 year old is always supervised, and which stall he is in at their barn.  ...She seems to get offended any time that I offer advice. I DO NOT CARE if she has had horses for the past 20 years,
441386[/snapback]

I'm going to risk make another comment here since you asked our opinion.

You said this was a LEASE ... do you have a lease contract? The contract will determine some of your and her rights in this situation. But she is PAYING for him (I'm assuming this because you called her a lesee) and personally I know I would be annoyed if you tried to micromanage my care of a horse that I leased the way the quote above suggests to me.

If he is being neglected or in an unsafe situation (like a stall that is too small) that is one thing. Asking her to increase his grain is reasonable - even responsible. But while I commend that you care for her kids, and she should have the common sense to supervise them and make them wear helmets, I'm not sure it's for you to ask things like if her kids are wearing helmets unless it is part of the lease (there should have been a no-fault clause in the lease). And if you have the attitude that you "DO NOT CARE" about her experience, I can see why she might not be accepting of your advice. I know, you were probably just writing that in a moment of frustration, but you have to give respect to get it. PICK YOUR BATTLES in this situation. Make sure your horse is in a safe situation and is well cared for and not being abused. Get her to increase his grain. But otherwise, if someone is paying to lease him then as hard as it is, you need to step back UNLESS he is in danger or being mistreated or she is violating what is specifically written in the contract. You may own the horse, but you signed a lot of rights over to her when you leased the horse.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

billiethekid40

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2003
Messages
931
Reaction score
0
I think I was misunderstood here! I am in NO WAY saying that I don't respect her experience, if I didn't I'd never have sent him there in the first place. What I DO NOT agree with is her undermining MY OWN experience with MY OWN horse just because she has more experience with OTHER horses. I KNOW my horse, and what works for him. Her other experience is all with large horse and I've been trying to help her understand the differences between the biggies and the littles.

She does NOT pay a lease fee. It is a care lease. By care lease I mean she provides a level of care specified by ME in return for the use of the horse for pleasure and show.

And yes, I know I cannot force her to make the child wear a helmet, BUT I can insist that the 9 year old be supervised when working with him especially outside the confines of a fenced enclosure. If said 9 year old loses her temper or grip on the lead it is MY horse being messed with. AND the reason I want to know if the kids are wearing helmets is because SHE told me they would. I want to know what OTHER things she has decided to change since he left! Seeing as she told me she would follow my instructions as per feeding


I have asked her to update me on his feed changes and stabeling, as well as how often he is being worked and let out to pasture. PLEASE remember this horse was neglected in his past home and I feel I have the RIGHT to these answers if they will ease my mind about the level of care he is recieving, or the cooperation that I can expect from these people. If I cannot establish a working partnership on the care of my horse with these people, I'd rather find out NOW and NOT in the middle of the winter!
 

billiethekid40

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2003
Messages
931
Reaction score
0
OOppps... I almost forgot to say THANK YOU to Marty! I feel like he is coming along great as well, and with a little more weight and some muscle..well, lets just say I wish I could drop out of school so I could condition and show him myself!!

I'll keep you updated Marty, as I find out whats up with this situation. I am really hoping that its just my "momma bear" coming out in me!

By the way... I check SEVERAL times a day looking for pics of fetus, but I think that kids camera shy or something!
 

mizbeth

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2002
Messages
1,790
Reaction score
3
billiethekid40 said:
I think I was misunderstood here! I am in NO WAY saying that I don't respect her experience, if I didn't I'd never have sent him there in the first place. What I DO NOT agree with is her undermining MY OWN experience with MY OWN horse just because she has more experience with OTHER horses. I KNOW my horse, and what works for him. Her other experience is all with large horse and I've been trying to help her understand the differences between the biggies and the littles.

She does NOT pay a lease fee. It is a care lease. By care lease I mean she provides a level of care specified by ME in return for the use of the horse for pleasure and show.

Oh I see! Since you have explained this lease you have. It sounds like you are pretty set on how she should treat/feed your horse and there is a good possiblity that won't happen they way you want from the way I am reading this. I think you are jumping the gun at this point anyway since the horse has not been there long.

At different times of the year horses need MORE or LESS feed than other times of the year. Some grass/pastures are more rich than others and horses gain or lose weight accordingly. I think you are going to worry yourself to death over this and it would be best to bring him home. JMO, but then your original questions was whether this horse should have his feed cut?

It seems we have gotten off topic a bit here!
 

billiethekid40

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2003
Messages
931
Reaction score
0
You are right, my question WAS would you cut his feed yet. I thought not and wanted other peoples opinions. With few exceptions my thinking was supported, and since she didn't change his feed to a higher calorie diet or something with more protein to make up for the cut in feed, but rather added working to the mix I don't feel I am jumping the gun to ask her to explain her reasoning and amounts better. If she changed his feed for a good reason, she should at least be able to tell me what amount she changed it to, and why she chose that amount. I DO NOT want to mico manage, and have put down few limits on his use. These limits include: my aproval on stall size, my approval on diet, and that the young one be supervised when working with him. I did not think this was unreasonable, especially since I DID NOT change my requirements after he went to them, they signed into the deal knowing these requirements outright.

I'm not saying I want to jump the gun and bring him home, what I wanted to know is if anyone else felt I was justified in asking her to provide more feed, or at least a better explaniation as to why she is feeding what she is. Afterall, if I had wanted to sign over all rights to him, I would have sold him and had the money to pay tuition that my parents are going to give me instead. LET me make it clear that if I thought my horse was in danger of neglect, I would have gone to get him long before now. I am just attempting to set bounderies early in my relationship with these people so that later dealings remain friendly and we remain open and honest with each other. I feel that all it should take is to remind them that they knew what I wanted before they signed on, and wanted reassurance that my worry about his feed wasn't completely unfounded before I asked her to justify her choice.
 

Marty

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2002
Messages
13,596
Reaction score
520
Location
Tennessee
HI Mel.....I"m glad you are here.

Look I don't want to ruffle your feathers, but I just want to go on record here and say that Billie is your horse and you are more than justified to tell them anything you need to whenever you want to. The fact that these folk seem "overly sensitive" to your suggestions it seems to me that the lines of communication are not what they should be. I think you should make an "unscheduled visit" and it should also be "unannounced" also just to check up when they least expect it. Don't tell them your schedules at all or your itinerary. Just show up out of the blue here and there. I wished I lived closer. I would have been happy to baby sit Billie for you this winter.
 

Latest posts

Top