Why do we as a country still shop at Wal-Mart?

[mininik]

Or spend money on luxury's like horse shows, horses, dog clothes, designer doggy hair cuts. Some things we see as a huge part of our lives others see as frivolous as coffee or latte.

It is very easy to see what some are wasting money on however sometimes not so easy when it is you or something very near and dear to your heart.

Right, but see the point is not that everyone should have to do without, giving up everything they love, it's that one can live well without living to EXCESS.

 

[Magic]

Right back to it but if "you" do not get that we are in a global economy and that we as a Nation compete globally for jobs, services and sales, then no amount of explaining will clear things up.

I don't think that we are too dense to understand the fact that we are a global economy.

I think that what some of us are saying or at least what *I* am saying, is that we also have a CHOICE to not shop where we disapprove of a company's actions. And that is what I do. That is part of the competition for jobs, services, and sales, attracting business. And if I find a company's business ethics questionable, I have a right to refuse to shop there, correct? Even if they DO have the lowest prices. And everyone else has a right to go shop there if they want. *shrug*

I guess those 600 people who are now jobless from the Laz-E-Boy closure can go work at Walmart, they should feel pretty flush making that $6.50 an hour or whatever it is. THAT ought to keep them in their homes with food on the table huh?

 

[Jill]

Right, but see the point is not that everyone should have to do without, giving up everything they love, it's that one can live well without living to EXCESS.

To 99.9% of the world's population, owning a miniature horse or pony "just for fun" is an unimaginable excess.

 

[mininik]

Right, so we should all head to Walmart to snatch up some more junk! Maybe I can find something for my brand new Escalade, or get a third flatscreen TV for my 5000 sqf home...

 

[Jill]

I guess those 600 people who are now jobless from the Laz-E-Boy closure can go work at Walmart, they should feel pretty flush making that $6.50 an hour or whatever it is. THAT ought to keep them in their homes with food on the table huh?

I know you're not too dense, trust me, and I'm all for people shopping where they want. I do!

And, I'm not heartless either. I do care about people who have hardship but because of the way I really think the global economy works, I do not think people in this Country in manufacturing jobs have a viable future in that line of work.

Because the basic nature of people seeking value for their dollars won't change, and American's cannot work as cheaply as those in some other Nations will, I don't see a bright future for those manufacturing jobs in this country.

Walmart's not going away and is not the only discount retailer, either. I think the solution for the Nation is a better educated and more skilled work force.

To me, arguing over why so many millions shop at Walmart and thinking the discussion can change the fact is like debating what shade of red we'd all like to see the grass in our yards turn.

PS Nicole, as someone who spent about 1000 miles behind the wheel of a brand new, American made, Escalade last week, missing my horses, I can tell you which I count as the bigger luxury in life and it's not the one with GPS. Every single one of us here has things in our lives that others would find frivolous and someone with a horse habit shouldn't be casting all that many stones.

 

[kaykay]

I think its a good post because it got more people thinking and talking. The thing is this is nothing new. A basic internet search will show that people against walmart is much bigger then this forum. Its been going on for years. I do agree that people can shop wherever they want as that is their basic right as an American. Do I think Walmart will close?? No but maybe they will try to do better. I know when they came under so much fire for suing the injured worker (it was on every news station, website etc) They stopped and did not take the money. So pressure in numbers does work even on Walmart.

I found this quote from the American Made Clothes site really interesting given how long ago it was said

When President Warren Harding was challenged by the argument that consumers benefit from cheaper imports, he replied "One who values American prosperity and . . . American standards of wage and living can have no sympathy with the proposal that easy entry and a flood of imports will cheapen our cost of living. It is more likely to destroy our capacity to buy."

 

[bingo]

Right, but see the point is not that everyone should have to do without, giving up everything they love, it's that one can live well without living to EXCESS.

I think having a dog get a haircut or dyed pink every 2-3 weeks and wearing designer doggy clothes is excess. I wouldn't choose to spend my money that way. Someone else may think owning a miniature horse or pony is complete excess and wouldn't choose to spend there money that way. Some might think going out to eat is excess. Going to horse shows, buying show halters, carts harnesses separate from the ones we work in daily. Horse Blankets in matching colors. 3 sets of dishes it could be a million things and some would be very grateful they can manage to purchase what is important to them and others will fault them for living to EXCESS!

There are many big issues facing our country today and the answer is not about only one right or wrong way. The key is to do what you can to and be aware of your choices and what changes you are willing and able to make. Not everyone will be able or willing to make the same changes or choices but everyone making some changes and choices is what this country needs.

 

[Jill]

I think its a good post because it got more people thinking and talking. The thing is this is nothing new. A basic internet search will show that people against walmart is much bigger then this forum. Its been going on for years.

Thank you. That really makes my point. It's been going on for years. People talking and complaining. Yet how many of us have seen new Walmarts open up in our town, or towns near us? People talk... and then they shop and lots of them keep on doing it at Walmart. They don't open up new stores because they're not selling to Americans.

 

[nightflight]

Everyone with a computer and the time to talk on little beginnings has it good compared to many others in this world. Honestly, if somone chooses to surround themselves with luxury and excess that is no one's business but their own, but, when that comes at the horrible expense of someone else it becomes time to take a second look.

I disagree with the ethics of Walmart, so I shop elsewhere when I can. My dollar is a vote. Some people don't have that luxury, and I understand that. I don't want to see Walmart go out of business, but I don't think people should have to work at slave wages, lack health care, and loose jobs just so that I can buy cheaper water tubs for my horses.

 

[kaykay]

Not true though Jill. There have been several Walmarts stores blocked from opening when I lived in Illinois and one was blocked in Ohio. The one in Ohio Walmart demanded so many tax breaks from the city that the entire community said NO and Walmart did not open in that location. I think as the years go on more and more people see it for what it is and instead of being excited about Walmart coming to town now some of them say No!

 

[Shari]

Having small beasts of burdin.. is not a luxury. Many countries it is their only means of getting around..or any kind of help.

Just ours get wormed and such because we can afford it.

If I could...I would get around and use mine more. They really like having a job.

I think it is harder for people that living in cities. They can't grow their own food..if something goes south.

4 years DH was bounced around in jobs.. all because they were sending that work overseas. Only thing that kept us going was because I had Sheep, goats, chickens, ducks, a big kitchen garden and Orchard with 25 fruit trees. If we did not have that...we would of starved and it is no joke. We ate the withers and sold a lot of my breeding stock..more than I would have other wise.

We managed to hold onto the house,, I had to sell my truck. Being out of the Navy we did not have much at the time because it was easier to move...and the Navy always broke everything.

We had only basic phone..local. No long distance. Was cheaper to buy a card.

Had to have basic internet because all jobs want you to apply online now a days.

No eletric was used..except for the Frig. No lights were used. We never went out to eat...rarely went anywhere. Did have a year pass for the Tacoma Zoo I had to let laps.

Oh.. we could strip things down again,, in some ways I would not mind. But we are not set up as well at this farm yet.

The young Fruit trees need another 4 to 5 years before they can feed us.. and the garden is just clay..we are amending it but it takes time to make soil that produces well.

I could feed the horses,, we have enough land.

But I would not want to give up my special Van. I got it after I broke my back...as I still can't ride in normal cars.

We have a small house, nothing fancy, sheds need to be replaced but we can't afford it right now. We do not eat out hardly at all because both DS and I have some pretty major food allergies.

Only time we go anywhere is to meet up with the miniature horse crowd and go once a year to the Japanese tree sale.

As far as spending and doing stuff..we are pretty low key. Also can't afford too.

Why you say...am I rambling on like this? Because I am worried. A Company bought out DH division at Intel. And the Boss they decided to use is a..

horse turd. The job which is one of only 5 in the country that can do it, one being DH... might be going overseas.

We don't need this right now.

I very, very tired of this kind of stuff going on and is a sore spot with me. :arg!

Right now they are sending him to NC... to do testing over there.

We sure can't afford to move..even though I have family there. And I do not want us to live in different states again. Had to when DH finally got a full time job with Intel..is the whole reason we moved to this farm. 6 months.. I lived at the old farm and he lived on his families Farm in Dallas OR. That was hard..and very spendy..keeping two households.

OR was the only place he could get a job. So we moved.

America needs to wake up.. or we will be owned by another country soon. We need to do what is right here first, before the Gov sticks their fingers in all the other pies in the rest of the world.Yes,,I already know they are doing it.

Other wise... all the good jobs will be in other countries..and we will have more and more poor people because all the good jobs have gone to other parts of the world. Only the very rich or people from other countries can afford land and the rest of us................become the new 3rd world country.

Sorry to get so Personal.. .. but it is as I said... a very sore spot with me.

 

[CyndiM]

I shop at wal-mart and like my clean, friendly store. Wal-Mart is NOT the only store in this country that buys it's goods from China or Bangladesh!

I don't know about other parts of the country but here in Iowa (Iowa City area) workers start at $8.00 per hour and they also have benefits. My daughter worked for wal-mart while she was going to college and continued working part time for a few years after she got a teaching job, eleven years total. She started in CA then transfered here. I have a daughter-in-law that has been working for wal-mart for about seventeen years now, and guess what she has benefits for her whole family and she makes over $15 per hour. I don't understand where the "rumor" started that wal-mart employes have no benefits. My daughter had them back in 1991 when she started with them, before she was married and added her husband then daughter.

The biggest gripe some people have about Wal-Mart is the workers don't want a union and that ticks off those who want them to join one.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

To 99.9% of the world's population, owning a miniature horse or pony "just for fun" is an unimaginable excess.

Noooo,

that's owning a big horse!

Owning a miniature is being frugal and thrifty- the least possible amount of equine you can have and still own a horse!

Having small beasts of burdin.. is not a luxury. Many countries it is their only means of getting around..or any kind of help.Just ours get wormed and such because we can afford it.

Well, that's true if we USED them as beasts of burden; very few people here do. Sorry about the situation with your husband!

Leia

 

[Shari]

Thank you Leia.

Will tell you, Maggie loves doing work. She doesn't like when we don't do things.

But you are right,, ours do not have to work to death..so they have it pretty good too.

 

[Jill]

Leia, you probably have a point BUT I spend more $$$ on my shorties than my biggies

(Don't tell Rocket!)

 

[Leeana]

You do your thing, i'll do mine

.

..i think that is basically what this comes down to.

 

[RockRiverTiff]

I remember living in a small town in illinois with a locally owned grocery store that i adored. everyone knew my name and my kids. the meat cutter knew just how I liked our steaks and chops cut and even had great cooking tips. Then about 20 miles away in the next town walmart came in. The store owner was okay though because it was just a walmart. Then a couple years later they announced it would be remodeled to become a super walmart. I saw the resignation in the owners eyes. He hung in there as long as he could but they closed 2 years later. It was so sad. I knew then an era was over.

This is exactly what's happening around here. And yes, I recognize this is inevitable in our system, but it's sad to see the small towns gutted, even if they're doing it to themselves.

Well, my opinion as I said before is that there is not a good future for American manufacturing. We're in a global economy and the reality is there are millions of workers in the world who will do the job for a tiny fraction of what American workers wll do it for. That's really only half the equation. The other half is that the American public in general will not PAY the cost it would require if these products were made by high cost American workers.

This is true too, but quite sad. My question is, what job DOES have a good future in America? It's not just manufacturing we're outsourcing, and with American students performing so poorly in school when compared to their counterparts in other developed countries, I wonder where our advantage is now. The area I live in now used to be built around manufacturing, but the steel mills closed up (leaving the most disgusting mess you can imagine on the riverfront), and while it's easy to say the future lies in better educating our children, what is the future for these factory workers? It's no wonder we're seeing foreclosures sky rocket when middle class jobs are disappearing so rapidly.

On the other end of the spectrum, if the rest of 'em could just get up off their dead asses and do something other than make babies to raise welfare money the same could be said there, too.

I wish they'd bring back the Works Progress Administration.

PS anyone reading this who has horses is indulging in an extreme luxury. It's been 100 years since anyone "needed" a horse. Forget the fancy coffees... us with horses are spending big bucks JUST for enjoyment.

Ah, but my horses are American made. Don't you know that's why I'm willing to spend so much extra money on them?

I don't know about other parts of the country but here in Iowa (Iowa City area) workers start at $8.00 per hour and they also have benefits... I don't understand where the "rumor" started that wal-mart employes have no benefits.

The biggest gripe some people have about Wal-Mart is the workers don't want a union and that ticks off those who want them to join one.

Getting back on topic (sorry everybody), our minimum wage in Illinois is $7.50. Wal-Mart starts most of their employees out at...$7.50. That's why people complain about the wages. They get the most business in town and still pay the lowest possible wages. And as a former Wal-Mart worker myself, I can attest that getting benefits is not easy. They do offer them automatically to full-time employees, so at the Wal-Mart I worked at they just hired everyone on as part-time and scheduled them for exactly 34 hours every week (the full-time cutoff). Then they would call you in for more hours later in the week.

The gripe too is not that Wal-Mart workers "don't want a union," it's that they're not allowed to have one. In the break rooms they actually have signs advising employees to contact management if someone approaches them about unions, and as part of training you watch a video on why employees shouldn't want to join unions. I'm not for or against unions either way, but a work force of that size should have the option.

Whoo! Sorry for all the talking guys, but as I see the effects of the global economy on our local economy every day, it's a topic that's very close to my heart. I realize that Wal-Mart is not the beginning and end of the problem, but as the biggest example of it it's easy to target.

 

[Erica]

I haven't read all this just skimmed a bit.......

But as far putting this in "horse terms" which is the way my brain thinks....all the time.

Wal-Mart = buying a horse from sales/auctions/even good ones....not just talking about salebarn auctions;

Local/Organic/Family Market or shop = buyer from a breeders farm

How many of us on here wouldn't love to get a good deal? A steal? I mean we post about it all the time, look at the steal I got on this mare at such and such sale, or it's a buyers market by looking at sale prices....I would have bought a truck load at those prices.

That same horse may cost more at the buyers farm, where you get to see it before hand, ask extended questions, talk to someone personable with the product/horse for sale, it becomes a more intimate situation.

Where at the sale it's more informal see what you get, sometimes don't know the background on the product/horse. You may be getting a mare that foals and has them registered, but is a horrible mother, or a stallion that is very agressive ext.

That said I do shop at Walmart, do I shop there exclusively no.....we buy produce during growing season from local growers, and shop at other local stores too.

 

[Minimor]

My horses are a necessity, not a luxury...without my little horses I would probably be on heavy duty meds for depression or worse. I long ago learned that the Minis are a great antidote for job related stress! Therapy horses do not count as luxuries.

(And no, I'm not inclined to give up my horses and my job to go & work at Wal-Mart instead!

)

Erica's comparison of Wal-Mart = salebarn...I'd have to say that her comparison is more suited to Superstore, at least around here. Our Wal-Mart is at least agreeable about returns/exchanges. Superstore is not user friendly when it comes to returns....I would liken it to an auction mart, now that you mention that comparison! (But you should see the people shopping in our local Superstore; it's always crowded compared to Wal-Mart)

 

[Jill]

A Walmart spokesperson is on the CBS Morning Show right now, and Walmart is donating $500,000 to America's Second Harvest, which I think is pretty nice for a "bad guy".