What is your opinion

[Field-of-Dreams]

The Shetlands look like ponies, not big horses. I have had people see photos of my horses and were surprised to find out they where Mini's not full size horses, but one does not mistake a Shetland for a large horse.

Let me send you over to the Labrador forum where I posted a pic of my new Shetland filly and asked them to guess the breed.

Just Labradors

Took three pages for them to guess correctly, and many of them do own horses!

I had Morgan, TWH, Clydesdale (but he was being silly) amongst others...

Personally, I'm not overly fond of the Shetland head- too long and narrow for my taste. I LOVE the wide, shorter head many AMHA horses have. But I like the build and movement of the Shetland.

I have found the temperment of the ponies does differ than that of the minis- however, four of the five ponies we own were not handled at birth and came to us untouched. The new filly, I'm not sure what they did with her, as she does have "issues" we are dealing with.

But, as they say: each to his own. Buy what YOU like. I like'm ALL!

Lucy

 

[Riverdance]

Seriously? Have you actually LOOKED at some of the Shetlands, or at least photos of them in the magazine? There are a good many of them that could be taken for Morgans or Saddlebreds (provided that the picture doesn’t include a cart/driver/handler to give away the small size of the pony) Today’s Shetlands—or many of them, not saying all of them—are much more horse like than a many of the Minis.

I will have to disagree with you on Sheltands looking like Morgans or Saddlebreds, though the Shetland heads look more like a Saddlebreds head. I was a Morgan breeder for years and I would never mistake a Shetland for a Morgan. I also have several friends who are Shetland breeders both Classic and Modern who have done well in the National Shetland Arena. So I know what a good Modern or Classic Sthetland looks like. Not like a Morgan. The head surely gives the Shetlands away.

This is not to say that I think the Shetland is not a pretty horse, just not what I want to breed. A Mini is a Mini and if I wanted to breed ponies, I would.

PS, I did not try to sound snooty regarding the AMHA World Show, just factual.

 

[kaykay]

Do I think it is fair for an amhr mini to compete against a shetland?? Yes! Because its a Shetland thats also registered miniature horse.

Alisha it was so fun meeting you at the Ohio World Show! Just wish I had my horses there so you could handle them and see what an ASPC/AMHR horse is like. I have posted Baxters Black Jim Beam here many times. He was showing at the World show with Brooke (youth) and is an ASPC/AMHR gelding. She has also shown my ASPC/AMHR mares and ya all know Kyle shows all of our horses. So yes they make great youth horses

The great thing is there is room for all of us to breed what we like and what we all think is best for US. It would be awfully boring if nothing ever evolved or moved forward.

As to Shetland heads really dont know where that comes from. I get many compliments on my ASPC/AMHR heads. Now I will agree that Im not real fond of some of the Modern Shetland heads but I dont see much difference between an ASPC/AMHR and an AMHA/AMHR head.

Keep in mind there are many AMHA/ASPC/AMHR horses out there already. Some of these were not hardshipped they were born triple registered.

Show what you love and what you are passionate about weather thats an AMHA, AMHR, ASPC, ASPC/AMHR OR AMHA/AMHR/ASPC

I just hate when these threads become "us against them" we all love small equine

 

[Riverdance]

As to Shetland heads really dont know where that comes from. I get many compliments on my ASPC/AMHR heads. Now I will agree that Im not real fond of some of the Modern Shetland heads but I dont see much difference between an ASPC/AMHR and an AMHA/AMHR head.

I am not saying that Shetlands have ugly heads, but a Morgan and an Arabian are known for their beautiful heads. Saddlebreds have a certain head, as do many other breeds. One can usually tell a breed by their heads. Thus, when I see Shetlands, I can usually tell they are a Shetland by their head.

And yes, there are many not so nice heads in any breed, even Morgans and Arabians.

Do I think it is fair for an amhr mini to compete against a shetland?? Yes! Because its a Shetland thats also registered miniature horse.

The problem with this is that it is a height breed right now, and showing Shetlands agains Minis is like comparing apples to oranges. Try showing a Shetland against an Arabian. Again, Apples to Oranges.

I just hate when these threads become "us against them" we all love small equine

I am not sure people are "us against them," just stating what they prefer. Thats what makes horse shows and why so many people love so many different breeds.

 

[icspots]

I actually have to laugh at the tone of the thread, no it isn't us against them, it is each individual's passionate response to the breed or type they own or prefer. I think alot of what we think is only a matter of perception. I live in a predominantly AMHR area, lots of shows to choose from etc. I purchased a stud prospect as a baby a couple of years ago and took him to our 2 AMHA shows and he did extrodinarily well, now I thought he looked like an AMHR horse because he is leggy, narrow barreled, long upright pencil neck, and that isn't what AMHA looks like.... But because he did well, I decided to take him to the World show, for the entire eighteen hour drive I questioned my wisdom of driving all that way to take an obviously AMHR horse to the worlds! Guess what, he looked like the majority of horses there (he was on the tall side) but many many horses built just like him. The funniest part is all my AMHR friends said oh he's definitely an AMHR horse he's too refined to be AMHA, and all my AMHA friends said oh he obviously too refined to be an AMHR horse

It is ALL perception depending on where we live, what we have been raised around etc. So lighten up everybody, and love the horses you love. And in response to the original question, yes I do think it is fair to show ASPC/AMHR horses against AMHR horses.

 

[horsefeather]

Gosh, can't wait to see all these wonderful Shetlands in the obstacle classes.

am

 

[disneyhorse]

Horsefeather....

They DO have obstacle classes for the Shetlands. The Shetlands are extremely smart. They also have riding classes. They have little kids riding on them in barrel racing classes, now THAT is darn adorable too! They have lots of youth that show everything from Classics to Moderns.

Come to Congress and see!

Andrea

 

[susanne]

How I wish I had a photo of my "hot" classic Shetland, Scarlet, standing with her chin in my hand, eyes closed, as I cleaned and medicated the painful, abscessed tooth bump on her face...no halter, no rope.

I also wish I had a photo of Mingus (a former rescue whose breeding is unknown, hardshipped into AMHR but almost certainly of "hot" Shetland descent) lying next to Keith as they both napped in the corral.

If that's hot, bring it on!

 

[~Lisa~]

Gosh, can't wait to see all these wonderful Shetlands in the obstacle classes.

am

I will see you in OK next year with our Shetland and my daughter in Obstacle...

 

[dmk]

A miniature is a pony...no ifs, ands or buts about it. A miniature horse is a pony ... bred down yes but a pony nonetheless. A pony is just a pony not bred "down" so to speak. There are ponies that look like big horses and ponies that look like draft horses just as there are miniatures that look the same. They are all the result of selective breeding - at least to get to the refined show ring look of today. Kids show Shetlands, we've shown them for years. We started with miniatures and moved to Shetlands because we LOVE their personalities. Smart, easy to train, easy to keep in condition. We still have some miniatures, but ponies are fabulous, wonderful animals. We would not have been exposed to ponies if we hadn't started showing miniatures in AMHR.

 

[Minimor]

I will have to disagree with you on Sheltands looking like Morgans or Saddlebreds, though the Shetland heads look more like a Saddlebreds head. I was a Morgan breeder for years and I would never mistake a Shetland for a Morgan. I also have several friends who are Shetland breeders both Classic and Modern who have done well in the National Shetland Arena. So I know what a good Modern or Classic Sthetland looks like. Not like a Morgan. The head surely gives the Shetlands away.

Well, I've had Morgans for over 40 years, and when I look though some of the Journals I've commented on a number of the ponies and how they could be taken for a Morgan if not for the obvious size relationship between the pony and the vehicle/driver behind that pony. The heads don't always give away the Shetlands. I've got years worth of The Morgan Horse sitting around here & I can flip through them and find plenty of homely headed Morgans--and no, not just on the poorly bred, "nobody" horses.
Actually, the ones most often given away by their heads (and ears) are the Minis.

 

[Riverdance]

I've got years worth of The Morgan Horse sitting around here & I can flip through them and find plenty of homely headed Morgans--and no, not just on the poorly bred, "nobody" horses.

As I said before, all breeds have heads that do not fit the classic breed standard for that breed. As for Morgan's, the biggest disservice to the Show Morgan World was a horse called Noble Flair Now if you know anything about Morgan's, you will know this horse. He is registered a Morgan, but it is rather common knowledge that his sire was a Hackney horse and not a Morgan. Thus the UGLY head was introduced to the Morgan World. The breeder of this horse was one of the top breeders with the most money in the Morgan World and he was able to get away with cheating (at that time). Another top trainer and horse breeder did not. Again, if you know the Morgan World, you will know whom I am talking about. The introduction of DNA caught this breeder in a round about way, but not till after his"Morgan" won World Championship and a few years of his get being sold for over $100,000 apiece. Sad part with that one, is the horse really looked like a Morgan (as most often Morgan blood will produce a horse that looks like a Morgan) with a classical Morgan head. Noble Flair did not, and he had a butt ugly head!!

Many of the top performing Morgan's today have Noble Flair blood in them. Several of my horses did too and yes, some of mine did not have the classically beautiful Morgan head, which drove me nuts. My trainer kept telling me that a riding/driving Morgan does not win on its head.

There are two Morgan Magazines. One approached the horse show world with driving/ saddleseat and halter horses. The other catered to the more thick draft horse type Morgan This seems to be the type Morgan which is the one you are referring to, and many in that magazine did not have so classical a head. Since they were bred to be work horses, breeders did not care that they kept the classical Morgan head. Now I am not talking about the show western horses. Futurity French Command was a MAJOR drive behind the show western horse and his get have OUTSTANDING heads.

There are also a lot of poor quality Morgan's with nasty heads, especially those that are more the stocky kind used for cattle driving.

Since I bred for halter as well as Park, I had the more refined carriage type horses and most of my horses had pretty heads.

Still, I am a head freak and have to have horses with pretty heads, one of the reasons why I love my Minis so much. Most of mine have beautiful heads!! Another reason why I am not a pony fan, nor was I a Saddlebred fan because of their heads. And yes, Saddlebreds come from Morgan's but the head was lost along the way.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Gosh, can't wait to see all these wonderful Shetlands in the obstacle classes.

am

I have had in the past 2 shetland geldings that I worked with. They both still had more so a flight instinct then what these minis had IMHO, BUT I think it depends on the person thats training them, how they are doing it, and how smart the horse is. I think the 2 would have made nice performance horses. One of them honestly I think would have made a nice riding pony. Just have to find the right shetland.

 

[Jean_B]

No AMHA was around before the AMHR.
I can go back into history about te AMHR and when it started.

Tracey

Actually - AMHR was formed in 1971 - AMHA was formed later in response to some members who didn't like the "Over" or "B" horses being called miniature. (you might be confusing the inception of AMHA with the old IMHR registry -- which if you look WAY WAY WAY back on some pedigrees - there are still those I numbers) And back in the early 90s - there were a lot of noses in the air saying that the only "true" miniature was one that was under 34" (originally AMHA wanted to have the height limit at 32" but they met with lots of opposition on that). Anyway...now look at all of the die-hard "I'll never show a "B" people who are now showing ASPC/AMHR horses at the Nationals in Tulsa!!

And actually - AMHR is now very close to being a "breed" - You can still hardship into AMHA anything that is under 34" at 5 years of age, regardless of its parentage, as long as it passes inspection by an AMHA director or former director. AMHR is closing it's books totally in a few years, and right now you can bring in previously non-AMHR registered animals ONLY if registered with AMHA (without inspection/measurement) or if registered with ASPC (must be 3 years, measured by a licensed Steward, and inspected by a licensed judge).

But back to the original question - at first (I'm talking back in the 90s) all those so-called shetland/minis in the show ring made me twitchy....and then I bought access to the online studbooks in both AMHA and AMHR...and low and behold - they are ALL bred down from shetland blood. Got over it real quick and decided to go with the "look" that I wanted and the heck with what you call it. A rose by any other name is still a rose.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

When did they say that AMHR plans on closing it books competely in the near future? For me personally it wouldn't matter either way altho would lean more towards closing it but was just curious.

 

[Riverdance]

AMHA is the regtistry that is closing their books in 2013. I have not heard that AMHR was doing that. As a matter of fact, when AMHA anounced that they were almost 2 years ago, lots of AMHR people were very upset.

AMHR's books have been closed for a while to unregistered horses, but they are still open for AMHA and ASPC horses to hardship.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

AMHA is the regtistry that is closing their books in 2013. I have not heard that AMHR was doing that. As a matter of fact, when AMHA anounced that they were almost 2 years ago, lots of AMHR people were very upset.
AMHR's books have been closed for a while to unregistered horses, but they are still open for AMHA and ASPC horses to hardship.

Perhaps because AMHR has open arms to hardshipping AMHA horses but now AMHA is closing its books on everyone. Oh well good for AMHA being its own registry. Perhaps AMHR should do the same.

(BTW wasn't bringing down AMHA in any way

)

 

[~Lisa~]

AMHA is the regtistry that is closing their books in 2013. I have not heard that AMHR was doing that. As a matter of fact, when AMHA anounced that they were almost 2 years ago, lots of AMHR people were very upset.
AMHR's books have been closed for a while to unregistered horses, but they are still open for AMHA and ASPC horses to hardship.

Well frankly if AMHA horses are so much more elite and a true breed as you have implied.. then guess it makes no difference in AMHR if they are allowing the AMHA horses in - meaning effecting the "trueness" of the breed within the AMHR registry.

All I can say is after reading some of the responses here I can not wait till AMHA people realize just how many ASPC/R/AMHA horses they have registered in their breed association LOL

 

[Irish Hills Farm]

I never understood the AMHA attitude that the AMHA horse is superior to the AMHR horse. Especially since AMHR was founded first, those "R" horses more than likely were registered with AMHA when it began. And isn't the majority of these miniatures related some where down the line?

As far as the shetland influence, most miniature's bloodlines go back to shetlands to begin with.

If you're not happy because your horse isn't winning don't blame it on the fact its because it's just a miniature and competing agains the shetland miniatures. There are still plenty of miniatures winning even at the National level.

There has been plenty of people who have dumped there AMHR/AMHA horses for the ASPC/AMHR horse and honestly their ASPC/AMHR stock is no better than their AMHR/AMHA stock. If you want to be competitive you have to keep up with the necessary changes, period AND not be barn blind and give your stock a honest hard look.

 

[~Lisa~]

There has been plenty of people who have dumped there AMHR/AMHA horses for the ASPC/AMHR horse and honestly their ASPC/AMHR stock is no better than their AMHR/AMHA stock. If you want to be competitive you have to keep up with the necessary changes, period AND not be barn blind and give your stock a honest hard look.

Ok next time it is so hot my brain is melting.. Sheryl will do the speaking for me that little paragraph says what I have been trying to say on these threads all along LOL

Thanks Sheryl