We've decided we cannot do it....

[kaykay]

This is just a sad situation for everyone involved. If someone was discussing a business deal that i was in on this forum would i respond to it? Dang right i would! Would i be mad that they posted it?? Honestly yes i would. I like you alot minimor and i know your just trying to do what is best for the horse but i dont agree on posting private business transactions on a public forum. It just always turns nasty because invariably the other person finds out that they are being talked about on an internet forum when they had no clue.

the best thing for all of us is just to never post details of business dealings on the forum.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Ok this has been bothering me most of the nite.. and I dont know who said it could go back and look but doesnt really matter...

PLEASE anyone new reading this dont think that if you are new here you dont get respect for posting- cause we dont "know" you doesnt mean you arent welcome. I have been on this fourm for many years now people come and go and many of us have been around awhile but of course all of us were new at sometime.

This isnt related to you minimor but a general statement.

the we dont know you so why should we listen to you.. well most of us dont really "know" eachother anyway more then what we do here online. Some of us are lucky enough to meet in person at a show or whatever but again this isnt even about this thread or shipping or selling or buying with the individuals but that statement

WE DONT EVEN KNOW YOU WHY SHOULD WE LISTEN OR CARE or whatever it was that was said was something that was pretty close to that and believe me that isnt how all of us feel without new people coming to this board well without new people to this breed period where would we be.

Ok sorry to sound condesending or anything but while out working horses that sentance kept popping back up in my head and perhaps was more hurtful and offensive to me then the poster it was directed at but had to get it off my chest anyway

 

[Tabitha]

I don't normally come here so often, but I'm getting a kick out of this thread.

I wasn't going to post, but....

Milo, you've done exactly what you accused Minimor of doing....assuming. You assume because you know one thing (your experience of shipping this way) that's all there is to it. Are you aware that there are 2 trucking companies that ship your direction? I've heard one does always divide the horses from other animals. I haven't heard a time frame for that one--the two use slightly different routes. He may very well be only 24 hours on the road. The other company does sometimes (and sometimes doesn't) put the different animals in together. That truck does take closer to 2 days (not 24 hours) to get there. Maybe sometimes they make it in less, but of the people I've talked to all have said it's nearly 2 days before the horse arrives. I personally know someone that sent a Welsh pony. It was there tied to a post when the person arrived to pick it up. {shrugs} the pony was fine & yes, did have water & hay so that was good. I too know about the horse that went there & was refused, so had to come back. The person who sent the horse initially said directly that her horse had been 4 days without feed or water & was in poor shape. I kind of hope she was wrong, and the horse had actually been watered before starting the trip home. I know a lot of people that ship this way--I also know people that ship horses in loads of cattle, and heard of a lady that used to ship her horses up from the US on a pig truck. It seems to work for those people, at least in most cases. Would I do it? No.

Likewise, would I come on a forum like this & defend myself if someone posted a vague question that only I and one or two other people might recongnize as pertaining to myself? No, certainly not. Nothing like broadcasting that it was me....or at least that I thought it could be me...and drawing everyone's attention to the fact. If the people that respond have no idea who they are talking about, they aren't really saying it about the person the post pertains to. They are simply replying to the post, sometimes with a little too much zest! I figure, suck it up & get on with your life. That's how I see it.

Edited to add: In regard to the Animal pedigree act: As I understand it, this applies only to horses which are advertised/sold as registered purebred in Canada. By the definition of the law, a horse which is advertised in Canada as ‘registered’ or ‘purebred’ must be registered with the Canadian Livestock Records Corporation. Canadian owned Morgans, because of the reciprocity between CMHA and AMHA, are CLRC registered, and therefore must abide by this Act. From what I’ve seen, there are very few Miniatures that are registered with CLRC—in fact I understand that the Canadian Miniature registry is, at the moment, pretty much defunct. Technically, I suppose Miniatures are considered “grade†horses under the eyes of Canadian law. However, people who advertise their horses as “AMHA registered†or “AMHR registered†in Canada aren’t breaking the law, because they are specifying the registration papers which the horses carry. Transfer of AMHA or AMHR papers cannot be enforced by the Animal Pedigree Act. I have yet to come across a seller that includes transferred papers as part of the purchase price. There may very well be a few that do, but they seem to be a minority. All the ones I’ve talked to say they hand over the signed transfer papers & the buyer is responsible for paying for the transfer. The Arabian & QH people I know say that's the way their breeds do it too, since most horses of those breeds are registered only in the US. I had a couple of Saddlebreds about 10 years ago, and they also were mostly US registered. When I advertised my last mare I was careful to specify in my ads that she was AHSA registered; she was eligible for CLRC registration, but I never bothered to send in her application. When I sold her the necessary application & transfers went with her in case the new owner wanted Canadian papers (which I don't think he did). Anyone who is selling AMHA/AMHR horses in Canada & not paying for the transfer is not breaking the law!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I agree with Tabitha- in the first place Minimor was not attacking the person concerned and gave NO clue as to who he/she was, not an inkling. Only the general direction she (the horse) was going in and the length of time she would be on the road and would we do it?? NO not only would I not allow my horse in with another species, I would NOT allow my horse in with anything I get individual stalls- I have never got less. When F&M and BSE was rife we were not allowed to ship feed or bedding and the horsebox had to be steam cleaned before return and certified, this turned a 24 hour turn around into up to four days. My horses were off loaded into racehorse stalls and boarded over night. They were taken off and grazed by the roadside every eight hours, and given water and hay (they were allowed to carry it in storage, not in the body of the box.) They arrived, a mare and foal I fretted on and drove the guy driving NUTS about for four days, fit and well and lively, in Ireland, having been corralled in his yard so they could have a run. AT NO EXTRA COST!!!!! That is service! He got a big bottle of something expensive at Christmas. I would expect and accept no less. I would not allow my buyers to dictate the travel either- although I do accept dealing with the distance it is sometimes impossible to do this. But I arrange (Well, to be honest Lillian does) the transport and I would accept no less than my own standards if the buyer arranged it, nor would I think highly of someone who considered the facilities offered to Minimor. I do understand there was probably a bit of crossed wires going on, but neither we, nor Minimor knew anything about this person til she chose to come on here and berate us!!!

 

[kaykay]

I have a feeling what happened is something like this. Minimor posted this. A friend of the buyers saw the post and emailed the buyer and said "did you know that minimore is talking about you on the internet?" So the buyer comes and looks.

Now she feels like she needs to defend herself and tell her side of the story. Remember there are ALWAYS two sides. And honestly in minimors post there are some derogartory things said about the buyer. Such as no payment, she wouldnt be there on time to pick the horse up etc. Those are not flattering things to say about someone.

Rabbit you know i like you and Minimor but i find it hard to believe that if the situation was reversed you and minimor would sit back quietly and not say a word and not be upset that someone was talking about your business transaction on a huge internet forum. Im pretty confident that both of you would have something to say about it LOL.

I have had a couple of horse transactions go bad but i have never discussed them here. Ever. I might complain in general but never about a specific business deal.

I have heard so many people say "well the person i posted about never comes on lil beginnings" I always tell them yeah but you never know how many friends of theirs come on lil beginnings.

Also i want people that buy horses from me to know that some things are confidential and are not going to be put out for the whole world to see. IMO its just not good business.

Kay

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

kay I do agree with you and I also see the want to "defend" someone we have "known" for a while but I to try (dont always succed but try) to think about both sides of the story - who knows how many local people (to buyer and seller) knew about this purchase

I think either way it isnt a good situation for any invovled but as someone said it works out for the best I am sure theseller will find the right buyer for this horse and the buyer will find the right horse for her.

 

[Mona]

I guess when I originally read the post, I must have skipped over the parts that had nothing to do with the question being asked, because I actually had to go back and re-read it after everyone started freaking out about it. I had only the transportation part in mind, because I know I have been asked to ship in those in the past, and I THINK in fact, that at one time I actually may have, but I am not 100% sure, as it was my husband that delivered the horses to meet the hauler. Danielle, is this what Storm was delivered in when I sent him and that mare down to Ponies With A Purpose?? If so, then I guess I did.

Anyway, I know of a couple of friends that used one of those companies being discussed here. Although many people swear there is nothing wrong with shipping on those transports with all the holes down the sides, I am scared the minis would get a leg or head stuck in there, and I am not about to take that chance.

Anyway, back to the gal that shipped on one...it was I think, a cattle truck. Anyway, this truck was wide-open, nothing was divided up. When it got to my friends house in Ohio, it already had on it, a yearling colt, and my friend was shipping a mare heavy in foal. Both of these were going to Ontario, to 2 different farms. The recipients, as well as the sellers of both these horses are members of this Forum. There was a 3rd horse involved as well, however, I do not remember the details of where he came from, nor where he was going, but it was a mature stallion, and this wonderful trucking company put all 3 of these horses from at least 2 different Farms, all in together!

That stallion could have EASILY killed the yearling colt, as well as "raped" or tormented that mare in foal to the point of losing her foal. LUCKILY, nothing like that did happen, and all horses were delivered safe and sound. In fact, I do think that at one point, the hauler actually did section off an area to keep the stallion separate, but they were all together to begin with.

It just sickens me to think of what so easily could have happened, and it was my knowledge of that particular trip, that now makes me refuse to ever use such transportation. I will stick to horse haulers using actual divided horse trailers, for all my hauling and transportation needs, or I will lose out on the sale, plain and simple.

 

[Hosscrazy]

I guess everyone reads something different in each thread; I see this thread as an educational discussion on equine transportation laws, and what you as a seller (or even you as a buyer) feel comfortable with for your horse.

I had no idea that a horse could be on a trailer that long without food or water (in my book, even 12 hours is MUCH too long for my horses to be without water!!!) So for me, I'm walking away with some knowledge about equine transportation laws that I did not have before reading this thread.

 

[Sunny]

As personal and confidential information regarding this sale has been made public, using unnecessary comments and fictitious speculation on the part of Cedar Plains, I am hereby withdrawing my bid on this gelding.  I do not feel comfortable dealing with someone who will stoop to such lows in their business.
Thank you for your attention.

Spectrum Miniatures

Ontario, Canada

445526[/snapback]

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Spectrum Miniatures: I have not finished reading the rest of this thread yet, but I felt compelled to reply.

I know many, if not most, of the miniature horse breeders, owners and exhibitors in southern Ontario, and your farm name is not one that I'm familiar with. Contrary to your own statement, Minimor did NOT provide any "personal and confidential information". YOU are the one giving us your life history and background. It would seem to me that Minimor's concerns were eased and that she was prepared to proceed with the sale. I personally don't see anything wrong with her expressing her concerns about the transport to the forum (although I was a little surprised that she did, given the amount of experience she has). She did not identify you personally in any way. You did that quite well yourself, except for providing your name which, of course, you most certainly are not required to do. I am more put off by you cancelling your bid on this horse publicly than I am by anything Minimor said.

Given the number of breeders in Ontario and the extremely high quality of so many of the horses here, perhaps it would be in your best interest to shop locally to save on shipping costs.

Aside from all that, this has been a very informative thread about shipping regulations and the such.