targetsmom
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Disneyhorse- Why wouldn't you include the new Classic Pleasure Class in AMHA as appropriate for ADS style driving? I thought that was going to be somewhat similar to the AMHR Western Country Pleasure class.
Traditional carriage style vs breed ring driving
- Thread starter Minxiesmom
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R Whiteman
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In my opinion, there is more potential to drive in competition at the breed shows than at a ADS events that I have attended. I can drive several horses in many classes and go in different height and types of driving at breed shows over a three day period.
It is hard to drive more than one turnout at an CDE or HDT. During a three day ADS event one horse and driver gets about a 30 to 40 min warm up and a 6 min Dressage test, a 45 min. to 90 min. marathon, and a 20 min. warm up with hopefully less than 3 min. cones.
The rules for both AMHA and AMHR are posted on their web sites. There are some rules concerning types of vehicles and required equipment that are specific to the classes. There are also rules that describe the type of horse desired for each of the classes. As I said before, knowing the rules and customs of each venue is a must.
Ron
It is hard to drive more than one turnout at an CDE or HDT. During a three day ADS event one horse and driver gets about a 30 to 40 min warm up and a 6 min Dressage test, a 45 min. to 90 min. marathon, and a 20 min. warm up with hopefully less than 3 min. cones.
The rules for both AMHA and AMHR are posted on their web sites. There are some rules concerning types of vehicles and required equipment that are specific to the classes. There are also rules that describe the type of horse desired for each of the classes. As I said before, knowing the rules and customs of each venue is a must.
Ron
hobbyhorse23
Well-Known Member
This has really turned into a fabulous thread. Love it!
Good points from all about being able to show more than one horse easily, etc. I hadn't really thought clearly about some of that as I've only had one horse in competition until now but it will get to be an issue in the next few years. I was going to solve it by driving my two as a pair or tandem, but that doesn't always work!
Leia
Western Country and Classic Pleasure are both supposed to be for horses with more long-and-low action as well as driven with a lower headset. They are still supposed to travel on the bit with contact, flexion and power but in a more stretched frame. You can move a Single Pleasure horse down to Country Pleasure fairly easily by asking them to flex a little more, relax and drive more forward with less overt power but it would be hard to drop the same horse into Western because they simply have too much elevated natural action. Many horses can switch between Country and Western though as the main difference is asking for that lower, more stretched frame. Not all Western/Classic horses can move up to Country however as Country seeks both rounder movement and a higher headset that not all horses are capable of.disneyhorse said:
I believe it is, but I think RhineStone's gelding is B-sized.targetsmom said:
Leia
RhineStone
Well-Known Member
My gelding, is in fact a B at 37". Right now, he travels in a more low frame, but is gradually becoming more up in the bridle with increased dressage type training. He is not a flat mover by any means, as he travels using his knees very well. He could use a bit more hock action in my opinion. Think Morgan, round in the front legs, less hocks in the hind. He has been "mistaken" for a mini Morgan on numerous occasions. I doubt he would ever be "up" enough for Single Pleasure, and I would prefer not to "jack him up" to do that anyway. I was thinking Country Pleasure. He might be too high-headed and round for Western, he's not a stock-type horse at all.
I did read the rules last night. However, what they describe isn't always what is "reality". Case in point, both AMHR and A, and also ADS say that excessive speed will be penalized in the Extended/Strong Trot. I was blown away with how fast a Strong Trot was expected to be (in a Horse class) a number of years ago after I read the excessive speed rule. My B-mini is developing an incredibly fast Strong Trot. Would I be penalized in a breed show doing the same Strong Trot that I would in an ADS show? The AMHR rules also say snaffle bit. Alax goes extremely well in his 4 1/2" Arch Butterfly. If I move the rein to the snaffle setting, is that considered a snaffle, or do I have to try to rebit him altogether? (He's not going to be happy about that.) Why does AMHR not admit curb-type bits when ASPC does and it is the same organization?
Also, I know that the Midwest has some of the largest ADS Pleasure Shows in the country, whereas the NW has more VSEs in CDEs. We have one CDE and one HDT with VSE divisions in 2 states here. When I say that I can drive more in a ADS show here, that is a Pleasure Show. Each division has 3 judged arena classes, Turnout, Working Pleasure, and Reinsmanship; and 3 obstacle classes such as Progressive Cones, Numbered Cones, Pick Your Route, Cross Country - Pace, Town & Country, Your Route - My Route, and the like. There are also special classes that exhibitors can choose to show in, such as Ladies or Gentleman to Drive, Picnic, Antique Vehicle (vehicle must be antique, not reproduction), and the Drive through town. Yes, the VSE division is not split between A's and B's yet. (I think it might get there someday with more participants, but it will be a while.) Depending on the driver, we will have horses in the Novice Whip, Junior, Open Horse, Open Pony, or Multiples along with the VSE at the same show. We can also cross enter the VSEs at some shows in any of those other divisions (maybe with the exception of Open Horse), if we desire, but generally our family wishes to concentrate on one division and fill in with a few other classes. I find that it is harder to show well and enjoy the show/friends if your time and concentration is split among multiple horses. Obstacles are run in a separate ring (or area) at the same time as the judged classes, so you have to be aware of time when showing in multiple divisions. That being said, our son is 8 now, and is showing as well. We plan on taking our Pinto Arab for him to show in Juniors, a friend will also show that same horse in Novice Whip, and I will show in VSE. LOTS of driving!
Myrna
I did read the rules last night. However, what they describe isn't always what is "reality". Case in point, both AMHR and A, and also ADS say that excessive speed will be penalized in the Extended/Strong Trot. I was blown away with how fast a Strong Trot was expected to be (in a Horse class) a number of years ago after I read the excessive speed rule. My B-mini is developing an incredibly fast Strong Trot. Would I be penalized in a breed show doing the same Strong Trot that I would in an ADS show? The AMHR rules also say snaffle bit. Alax goes extremely well in his 4 1/2" Arch Butterfly. If I move the rein to the snaffle setting, is that considered a snaffle, or do I have to try to rebit him altogether? (He's not going to be happy about that.) Why does AMHR not admit curb-type bits when ASPC does and it is the same organization?
Also, I know that the Midwest has some of the largest ADS Pleasure Shows in the country, whereas the NW has more VSEs in CDEs. We have one CDE and one HDT with VSE divisions in 2 states here. When I say that I can drive more in a ADS show here, that is a Pleasure Show. Each division has 3 judged arena classes, Turnout, Working Pleasure, and Reinsmanship; and 3 obstacle classes such as Progressive Cones, Numbered Cones, Pick Your Route, Cross Country - Pace, Town & Country, Your Route - My Route, and the like. There are also special classes that exhibitors can choose to show in, such as Ladies or Gentleman to Drive, Picnic, Antique Vehicle (vehicle must be antique, not reproduction), and the Drive through town. Yes, the VSE division is not split between A's and B's yet. (I think it might get there someday with more participants, but it will be a while.) Depending on the driver, we will have horses in the Novice Whip, Junior, Open Horse, Open Pony, or Multiples along with the VSE at the same show. We can also cross enter the VSEs at some shows in any of those other divisions (maybe with the exception of Open Horse), if we desire, but generally our family wishes to concentrate on one division and fill in with a few other classes. I find that it is harder to show well and enjoy the show/friends if your time and concentration is split among multiple horses. Obstacles are run in a separate ring (or area) at the same time as the judged classes, so you have to be aware of time when showing in multiple divisions. That being said, our son is 8 now, and is showing as well. We plan on taking our Pinto Arab for him to show in Juniors, a friend will also show that same horse in Novice Whip, and I will show in VSE. LOTS of driving!
Myrna
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disneyhorse
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Yes, sorry, in my first post I did not mean to exclude AMHA's "Classic Country Pleasure" I simply don't show AMHA and didn't think about it!
RhineStone... as far as "excessive"... yes you will see pretty darn fast classes! Doesn't mean the horses are SUPPOSED to go that fast, just a lot do... because often times younger horses can move bigger when they go faster, as they haven't built up the muscle to really extend properly at a "slower" speed. Again, this is often because breed ring driving features young horses that are just out there to get titles before being retired for breeding, or to enter those Futurity classes by age three! Just sayin' it's how it is!
Andrea
RhineStone... as far as "excessive"... yes you will see pretty darn fast classes! Doesn't mean the horses are SUPPOSED to go that fast, just a lot do... because often times younger horses can move bigger when they go faster, as they haven't built up the muscle to really extend properly at a "slower" speed. Again, this is often because breed ring driving features young horses that are just out there to get titles before being retired for breeding, or to enter those Futurity classes by age three! Just sayin' it's how it is!
Andrea
Minxiesmom
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Myrna,
I think I would go ahead and use your strong trot at speed. It will get their attention! and done well, it will look great. Just don't start lapping the others!!LOL!! It sounds to me like your horse is more of a country pleasure than western country pleasure. Maybe there is someone on here that shows "R" in your area and you can ask them what the competition is like.
