This is when it's acceptable to smack a horse

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txminipinto

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You know, this couldn't have had better timing following the horse whipping thread.


I have horses of all levels in my barn. I have those that I can hand off to a 6 yr old and totally trust. I have those that would show well for an older youth. I have some that are great for confidence builders for the true ammy. And then I have the ones that need straight jackets and the handler needs a drink before and after any handling.


Yesterday, I was working with a 44" shetland stallion on his ground manners. He has a habit of not walking, lounging forward, and kicking out with both rear legs unexpectedly. Obviously, a very dangerous animal to be leading around at home much less at a show. He wears a regular weanling horse halter, chain in the mouth, and I carry a whip. And we've been making progress. This is also a pony that I have a very deep relationship with. He's a one person pony and I'm his person. I can honestly say he loves me, but he has this one issue.

Yesterday, seemed like a really good day. He was walking well on lead with the chain still in his mouth, but loose. He was mouthing the chain, dropping his head (when he stands at full height, his head is over mine), and walking respectfully. We made several laps with no needed corrections other than a grunt or two from me when he started thinking. At this point, I thought "wow, he's been so good, I'll put him up and let him eat". No sooner had I said this, WHAM!
He had suddenly jumped forward, I only had time to correct him with the chain, he bent his head and hip into me and got me. Not a glancing blow, but a full hoof. Fortunately, I was close enough yet just far enough for it to really really hurt.

Now, I'm outside alone, with a cell phone in my pocket, but unable to get it because I'm standing on one leg, trying not to fall hanging on to this stallion who KNOWS he's in big doo doo. Did I want to just throw him back in his stall? Yes. Did I? No. Did I whip him? No, because I couldn't. I was doing good to stay standing and the 3 seconds had long passed. I shook off the pain, and we restarted. And every time he lounged forward he was shanked and took a whip across the chest. Not hard enough to draw blood or whelps, but hard enough to stop him. And we worked until he behaved. Now, maybe some of you could have whispered in his ear or petted him and he would have behaved on the lead. But this is a horse that wants to please me. He wants to be good and in the ring, he shows beautifully. But, he has a hard time controlling his 2 yr old hormones and forgets that he's bigger, stronger, and can hurt me. I think he remembers now.



This is a close up from this morning about 12 hours after. It's as big as my palm, raised, and really sore. I'm sure it will be a nice shade of dark black purple by the time I get home. I guess some would say that it was my fault I got kicked. Maybe, but I doubt the mother of the child who gets kicked in the head at a show will think it was her fault or the child's fault for running up behind him.

I don't advocate whip use for minor behavior issues. I don't whip a horse until they bleed. But, I'm experienced enough that with some horses you must communicate like a horse. If you are fortunate enough to never pick up a whip, then you are either very lucky horseowner or you have made wise descisions in your horse buying. Unfortunately, not every horse is for a beginner and not every horse understands that when working with humans you must use your mind, not your brute force. Humans are easy to train, most horses are not.
 

Katiean

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I got one like that just below my left knee. It was about 8 months ago and the lump is finally going away. I didn't hit my mare when it happened. I was checking her bag to see if she was drying up after weaning. I hope yours heals faster than mine. It looks like it hurts.
 
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StarRidgeAcres

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Holy #$%& Carin! I'm so glad it wasn't worse!! That's bad enough as far as I'm concerned. And whisper...bull!! The only time I whisper sweet nothings is when I'm in the ring and I don't want the judge to hear what I'm saying but it's usually along the lines of "if you don't stop it right now I'm going to rip your head off!"

So sorry that happened, but you handled it like a true professional.
 

Leeana

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I agree with evey word you said
. Sorry to see your battle wound
.... I bet i know what stallion it is too


I have horses of all levels in my barn. I have those that I can hand off to a 6 yr old and totally trust. I have those that would show well for an older youth. I have some that are great for confidence builders for the true ammy. And then I have the ones that need straight jackets and the handler needs a drink before and after any handling.
Exactly, some horses just need the extra force. I have horses that i can hand off to my 6 year old nephew and then i have horses that i will not even allow my nephew near. I have some big babies here that punish themselves enough if they have done something wrong or a small yank on the chain will correct....i have others who need a firm hand and that i keep an eye on at all times.
 
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txminipinto

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I agree with evey word you said
. Sorry to see your battle wound
.... I bet i know what stallion it is too
Bet you don't!
It's never the ugly ones because the ugly ones know they have to be good if they want to stick around. The pretty ones get to stick around on looks alone!

 

whitney

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txminipinto:

You were RIGHT there is a time and place for ACTION. I had a 2 year old Q.H. stallion that lunged at me and bit my eyebrow about OFF.

For those that have had horses for a long period of time its AMAZING how that 2 SECOND rule kicks in. BLEEDING I broke the rake that I had in my hand across that boys chest, did he know what he did YOU BETCHA did he EVER try to bite again NADDA! When it comes to kicking or biting you nip it HARD in the bud, or prepare yourself for YEARS of trouble.

Funny thing that I have found with youngsters that were born on my place is they test you seriously 1 time if you give as good as you got, you don't have a problem with them from that point on. JMHO.

Glad you were able to discipline him, hobbling around on 1 leg. WE have horses WHY?
 
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ohmt

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Good job handling the situation! I do all the breeding by myself and since I do mostly hand breeding, I always bring a whip with. it's because it's easier for me to bring the mare into the stallion's pen than to tie the mare up and bring the stallion to her...so I just use the whip to keep the stallions back. I think I've only had to use it a few times because they know what "Back" means now (and by using it I mean tapping them on the chest..I've never actually had to whip them). It keeps everyone safe! My new stallion that I bought last spring was really bad about rearing up and biting...the biting stopped FAST. I don't and can't tolerate things like that working with the studs myself. Every time he bit me I smacked him on the nose. The rearing stopped after I held him up a few times...he didn't like it. Now we're good buddies
 

Laura

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I'm glad you're OK, I'm just glad he didn't have shoes on...ouch!! You're right too, there's a time and a place where it IS called for!
 

KanoasDestiny

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Carin, I just wanted to let you know that I hope you get feeling better soon. Looks awefully painful!

Oh, and he's gorgeous!!!
 

sundaymom

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OUCH! So glad you weren't seriously injured.

I think it is great that you brought this up that even professionals have to be on guard with large or small animals. It is so easy, for myself, a non-professional to let my gaurd down when fooling with my animals.

I have to remind myself that when one of my human young boys acted up, he was punished severly. Now at the time, he might have thought I was killing him but it saved me worse times when they became mancho teenagers and young men.

I don't condon abuse of any type for animals or human but do believe in controlled discipline.

Had to laugh at myself when I typed controlled discipline...sounds great now that I'm a mawmaw...but don't know how controlled it was in the heat of the moment years ago. Ha!
 

ThreeCFarm

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Carin and Whitney
Well done!!! I would have done the same thing.
There ARE times when you have to make a point, and it USUALLY doesn't take too many times before you DO make the point! Although, some horses are a lot more hardheaded than others, LOL.
 

Maxi'sMinis

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Ditto all the way around on your training methods. Sorry you have a dousy of a bruise. And Oooohhh he iiiiiiiis a beauty!
 

HGFarm

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Oh OW! That's a lovely one!

I think you did handle it well and correctly also, and you are right, this is not Flicka or Fury or Mr. Ed in which they all respond to smothering them in love and affection and they will be nice. I can tell you that I know of a family here who tried that method and ended up practically having to give their Minis away because they were so ill mannered, nobody wanted them and they had NO idea why they did not behave. They were never corrected for anything.

They all have different personalities and some are just a little more, uh, "outgoing" than others and take a firmer hand. Ha, sounds like you have learned to grow 'eyes in the back of your head' like many do that deal with sometimes not so broke ranch horses, or youngsters that are a bit broncy and untrustworthy, etc...

Some settle down with age and schooling, some dont... but the 'terrible twos' can just be awful to deal with at times! Glad you are OK other than adding some new colors to your skin tones!
 

Judi Renchen

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You know, this couldn't have had better timing following the horse whipping thread.


Did I whip him? No, because I couldn't. I was doing good to stay standing and the 3 seconds had long passed.

I guess some would say that it was my fault I got kicked. Maybe, but I doubt the mother of the child who gets kicked in the head at a show will think it was her fault or the child's fault for running up behind him.

I don't advocate whip use for minor behavior issues. I don't whip a horse until they bleed. But, I'm experienced enough that with some horses you must communicate like a horse. If you are fortunate enough to never pick up a whip, then you are either very lucky horseowner or you have made wise descisions in your horse buying. Unfortunately, not every horse is for a beginner and not every horse understands that when working with humans you must use your mind, not your brute force. Humans are easy to train, most horses are not.

Carin, I'm SOOO sorry you were hurt and I've had enough bruises this year due to my own clumsiness that I know you'll be hurting for a while just trying to walk. The above statements are really what show the level of your professionalism. In this case your self control was in my opinion was immense.
This is a perfect example of how these situations should be handled. Your's was totally different from what I experienced the other night but you handled it much better than the other man would have. My hat is off to you.
 

txminipinto

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Thank you all for your positive responses. I posted this (after thinking about it over night) hopeing to shine some light into the real world of horse wrangling. It wasn't meant to shock or offend anyone, but more to educate. Yes, there are some horses that can be treated with soft hands and not face any consequences. But then there are the rest........ I have decided that 2 yr olds are the worst and it's probably why you don't see me show a lot of 2 yr olds. I like weanlings, yearlings, and anything 3 and over but 2 yr olds I tend to leave at home. And you should see the wonderful deep shade of purple my new friend has taken over the day!! Pretty impressive. My husband shrugged off my injury last night as it was barely visible, but tonight there's no denying I've been "touched".


The guilty party is my Classic stallion, Texaco MGS. Thank you for all the wonderful compliments! He's definately
worthy and we're expecting his first two foals in '09! He's normally a sweet heart (who apologized this morning with ear kisses) and a very sensitive soul. He just has this one issue that we're working on. And it was my fault I was kicked. I know his tendances, allowed him 2 inches more lead than I should have, and I jinxed the whole thing by thinking how good he was being. Never dismiss the power of your mind!

What I want a newbie to take from this is to never let your guard down no matter how well you trust your horse. I've handled horses my entire life, big and small, and the majority of my injuries have come from minis and/or ponies! I also want them to take away that you can have a positive relationship and be the herd boss. I believe that were most newbies mistakes come from is the emotional issues when faced with correcting their horse's behavior. It's very rare that you find a horse that will hold a grudge and as long as you feed them, I can pretty much assure you that they will always love you. You will have a much more enjoyable relationship if you set boundaries and enforce them. You do them no favors by allowing them to walk all over you.
 

Karen S

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Carin,

Ouch! I too know all to well of one that can get you. At 16 years of age, had a young stallion get upset over not being the first one fed. He grabbed me in the stomach, slung me around like a rag doll and then kicked me in the head behind my right ear (yes I had to have stitches). What saved me? my adrenalin, it allowed me time to get up, use the lead with the bull snap to come out swinging at him so I could get out of the lot. He was one that anyone could trust but for some unknown reason he came after me. What most women don't understand is that they know and can smell a womans hormones. A lady that use to ride with our all girl ridding drill team was attacked by her horse and he bit her right breast off. I have also read of instances where horses, especially stallions tearing off peoples noses and cheeks disfiguring them for the rest of their life. Just something to keep in the back of your mind and be mindful of.

Karen
 

bingo

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Thank you all for your positive responses. I posted this (after thinking about it over night) hopeing to shine some light into the real world of horse wrangling. It wasn't meant to shock or offend anyone, but more to educate. .
Carin I don't feel this was shocking in any way. What you did is what any experienced horse person would have done although personally I never use a chain in the mouth as I find it unnecessary even with the many Warmblood stallions and young colts we have had in the barn.

The real world of horses is known by many professional or not and nothing you have posted here on this thread was either shocking or offensive it is part of daily life with horses no more no less.
 
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Matt73

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Wow. You are right! He is a keeper. With what you're doing, I'm sure he'll smarten up eventually. He'll probably always be one of those stallions that constanly tests his boundaries (I guess there are very few that don't), and will always need someone handling him that knows what they're doing. That's quite the whack he gave you....OUCH!
 

Matt73

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Carin,
Ouch! I too know all to well of one that can get you. At 16 years of age, had a young stallion get upset over not being the first one fed. He grabbed me in the stomach, slung me around like a rag doll and then kicked me in the head behind my right ear (yes I had to have stitches). What saved me? my adrenalin, it allowed me time to get up, use the lead with the bull snap to come out swinging at him so I could get out of the lot. He was one that anyone could trust but for some unknown reason he came after me. What most women don't understand is that they know and can smell a womans hormones. A lady that use to ride with our all girl ridding drill team was attacked by her horse and he bit her right breast off. I have also read of instances where horses, especially stallions tearing off peoples noses and cheeks disfiguring them for the rest of their life. Just something to keep in the back of your mind and be mindful of.

Karen
Scary. I hope someone "reprimanded" him (ie. kicked him in the !#%). I knew one stallion, a Grand Prix jumper, that always had to wear a muzzle. Two people led him on either side. I remember one year at the Royal hearing squealing and screams etc. Bloodcurdling stuff. He was on crossties and had managed to start trying to kill the groom by trampling her. All I saw were sparks flying on the cement from his horseshoes. He was a devil. I don't know about you, but there are definitely instances in my mind where cutting the balls off are a much better idea than saving a talented stallion for breeding. I think nowadays people are breeding for temperament as well as talent (with the exception of the racing industry maybe). Wow...way to go off on a tangent Matt
 
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