Stallion Certificate.

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Firefall

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Hi all,

ok here is the deal. I bought a mare that hasn't come into heat since she has arrived over a month ago. The previous owners had said that she was with a stallion this year. Well, I'd like to get the certificate for her. These people don't seem to be in any hurry (which there really isn't one) but I can't understand why they just can't fill one out and send it. I guess I'm paranoid that I'll end up losing contact with these people or something else. I just want everything in order. When I sold my mares this year that were possibly bred, I had the stallion certificate all ready with their papers.

Maybe I don't understand the whole process since I haven't sent in my report for this year yet and it will be ny first one.

Is this a normal thing not to send any certificates, I've always had them come with the paper work before when I have bought a mare that was possibly bred.

Thanks!
 

nootka

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Have you paid for the mare in full?

Many stallion owners don't issue the certificate til there is proof of a live birth, though if you have paid for the mare and there is no additional money due, I would think it would be fine to give you the breeding certificate.

Have you requested it and been denied (what did they give for their reason not to?)?

Liz M.
 

Buckskin gal

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I think whenever a mare is sold, which has been bred, a stallion certificate should be given at time of sale, even though the stallion owner doesn't send in the reports until the end of the year. This is just good business and what is expected. I too would be worried about a seller not wanting to give the certificate at time of sale. I Have heard of some sellers holding back on the certificate and then demanding more money to get it!
Not fair to the buyer. We did encounter a situation last year...bought a mare, who had been bred and we did get the certificate at time of purchase. When we went to register the foal, we were told the stallion report had not been sent in.
So a person really does have to be careful in many situations because people are not always on the up and up. I do hope you get the certificate. I would sure like to know what could be done to the stallion owner for not fileling a stallion report but gives out certificates showing they did breed the mare.
Mary

Firefall said:
Hi all,  ok here is the deal. I bought a mare that hasn't come into heat since she has arrived over a month ago. The previous owners had said that she was with a stallion this year. Well, I'd like to get the certificate for her. These people don't seem to be in any hurry (which there really isn't one)  but I can't understand why they just can't fill one out and send it. I guess I'm paranoid that I'll end up losing contact with these people or something else. I just want everything in order. When I sold my mares this year that were possibly bred, I had the stallion certificate all ready with their papers.

  Maybe I don't understand the whole process since I haven't sent in my report for this year yet and it will be ny first one.

    Is this a normal thing not to send any certificates, I've always had them come with the paper work before when I have bought a mare that was possibly bred.

Thanks!

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Relic

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l aways thought if you bred and owned the mare and stallion at time of breeding all you needed to send in was the stud report at the end of the year even if the mare exchanged hands before foaling. We did sell a mare in foal and never had a problem when the foal was born and the new owners registered him in there name under there farm.
 

Firefall

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I was told that they hadn't done that stallions report yet? So what does that have to do with anything?

Seems strange to me and the mare is paid in full.
 

Miniv

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Maybe they need to be educated about the difference between a stallion report done at the end of a year and a BREEDING CERTIFICATE.....????

MA
 

miniapp

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I agree with MiniV - perhaps it is just an education issue? As long as the mare is paid in full, we supply the breeding certificate at the time of purchase and paperwork transfer. Then we also follow up at the time of the foaling to make sure that the customer does not have any issues or questions when registering the foal....

I sure hope that this gets all worked out for you... I know how frustrating it can be!

Suzy Hooper

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pepperhill

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I am just like you. I want all my paperwork in order all the time, and I hate having to trust in someone elses ability to get things done. For what it's worth, I had the exact same thing happen to me a few years ago, and I finally filled out a stallion report and a breeding certificate and took it over to the guys house and had him sign it for me. I felt better after that, and I just mailed the stallion report in on my own. All the mares serviced by a stallion don't have to be listed on the same report. If he gives you a breeding cert now, but then forgets to write your new mare on his stallion report, it is a real hassle to get it fixed. If that happens, you can still get your mare on the report. Unfortunantly it means you have to get the previous owner to fill out another stallion report with your mare listed, and you have to send in a $25 late fee with the report. Then you can register the baby.

You could call him and ask when he sends his reports in, and then call him just prior to that date and remind him of your mare and the paperwork you need, but then it will hang over your head until it is done. Best wishes on your endeaver. Linda

(I guess I should mention that this info pertains to AMHR...I haven't had to go through any of this with AMHA, so I don't know what they do.)
 

justjinx

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I would feel very uneasy not getting the breeding certificate with the bred mare. I purchased a bred mare last year and got the breeding cert with her pedigree. the stallion report is filed at the end of the year and a mare may be purchased before that time.

Could you contact the seller and request the cert?

jennifer
 

HGFarm

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I would insist on getting one. A stallion report is totally different than a breeders certificate and you should have gotten the certificate with the mare and rest of her papers when you bought her. That way, you have it when she foals.

If the mare turns up not bred, then that is fine- you can throw it away later....

This is part of having all your paperwork in order, etc.. on a sold horse.
 

Minimor

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Haven't sold any bred mares here so haven't had to think about it.

But, on the bred mares we've bought, none came with breeding certificates. When the foals were born the sellers sent me registration applications with the service certificate on the back completed. I just had to fill in the front of the applications & send them off.

One seller did say she was going to be more organized & have things done up early this year (this was the summer of '03). So that year, rather than giving me the completed certificate on the application form when the foals arrived in the spring of '04, when she filled out her stallion report in the late fall of '03, she completed the service certificates & sent them to me at that time.

So, that could be one reason that someone would associate the service certificate with the stallion report. Some people write all the breeding dates on a calendar, then at the end of the year they sit down & copy all the info across onto the stallion service report--and they just do all their breeding certificate at the same time, while they have the info handy in front of them.

I agree, though, it is nice to have that service certificate in your possession so that you know you have it no matter what the seller/stallion owner may do or where he/she may go in the time between the mare being sold and her foal being born!

Edited to add: Just to correct something pepperhill said--if a mare gets missed off of an AMHR stallion report, the stallion owner can send in another report with that mare on it--it's considered an "amended report" and the $25 late fee does not apply. That late fee is applicable only where no stallion report at all is filed until after the deadline.
 
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Firefall

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They are a well known farm on here. They have many minis and have done, for a few years. Why they won't get this done is beyond me.


I will just have to keep bothering them till its done.

Thanks all!
 

Jean_B

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It's probably just a case where they just fill out the service certificates at the same time as they complete the stallion service reports. It's easier to do all the paperwork at one time. When I do my reports - my kitchen table is COVERED with calendars, 3-ring binders full of registration paper copies, report forms, certificates, service contracts, etc etc etc. And it takes me the better part of a day to get it all completed and double-checked.

However, in some cases, the seller might want to see a picture of the foal nursing on that mare before issuing a stallion service certificate...just to make sure you in fact got a foal from that mating. This would prevent the buyer from slapping that pedigree on another foal in the event that mare came up open. Not saying this is the right thing to do...but if I was the owner of a big name stallion and sold a mare bred to him, I would want to make sure the foal getting that pedigree was in fact the result of that mating.
 

Lewella

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On the AMHR transfer form (if you are using the one you can print off the website instead of having the actual registration papers signed) there is a line that says "**If the animal being transferred is a bred mare, the seller must supply a service certificate to the purchaser.**"

When I buy a bred mare I bring a blank transfer, blank service certificate, and blank stallion report with me and have the seller fill them out when I pick up the mare. Saves a lot of paperwork headaches - before I started doing that I bought a couple of mares that I got service certificates with but the seller didn't put them on the stallion report when it was filed. I then had to get him to sign a new report with those mares on it. Thankfully, there is no charge to amend a stallion report with AMHR - if the stallion owner filed one for the stallion you do not have to pay the late report fee - just send in another report with the added mare(s) on it.
 

Becky

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On my farm, I issue a service certificate from both AMHA and AMHR at the time I sell a mare. The service certifcate simply says a mare was bred on certain dates and I believe the new owner has the right to have that when they purchase a mare.

Under AMHA rules now, a foal can be registered with a signed service certificate even if the stallion owner *forgot* to put her on a stallion report! Saves a lot of headaches for a buyer if the seller didn't complete his end of the bargain. Of course AMHA will go after the stallion owner for the late/amended stallion report!
 

Christine

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I posted the same thing on here a couple years back and got reemed inside and out by forum memebers who were on the breeders
list and said he could do no wrong all I did was just as you and questioned why this was done but the breeder flat out told my husband he would not send it until the foal was born to make sure that mare actualy had a foal out of that stallion, I was extremely worried as I did not know this person any more than he knew me.....however I did get one but it is a HUGE trust issue some breeders who do this will send you a copy of the stallion report when mailed it and/or write a little letter stating they will guarantee to release a breeders cert if a foal is produced out of this pair....but I honestly think it is [SIZE=21pt]SO[/SIZE] sad when breeders feel they must do this.......they will sell a 2000.00 horses on payments allow them to leave their property with basically a signed peice of paper but when it comes to those breeders certs they pitch fits over them.....just my thoughts there.
 

Buckskin gal

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That is what upsets me about sellers not giving the stallion certificate at time of sale of a mare. [Red highlight mine] If AMHR says it is a must then it is very wrong for a seller not to give it at time of sale.
I would love to see AMHR do as AMHA does and register the foal even though the stallion owner fails to send in the stallion report....then go after the stallion owner for not getting it in.


Giving the buyer the stallion certificate is the right thing to do and if people keep their paper work up to date it isn't a hassle for them.
Think I will do as Lewella suggested if I buy another bred mare and save some time for myself. Mary

Lewella said:
On the AMHR transfer form (if you are using the one you can print off the website instead of having the actual registration papers signed) there is a line that says "**If the animal being transferred is a bred mare, the seller must supply a service certificate to the purchaser.**" 
When I buy a bred mare I bring a blank transfer, blank service certificate, and blank stallion report with me and have the seller fill them out when I pick up the mare.  Saves a lot of paperwork headaches - before I started doing that I bought a couple of mares that I got service certificates with but the seller didn't put them on the stallion report when it was filed.  I then had to get him to sign a new report with those mares on it.  Thankfully, there is no charge to amend a stallion report with AMHR - if the stallion owner filed one for the stallion you do not have to pay the late report fee - just send in another report with the added mare(s) on it.

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Little Wee Horse Farm

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If you have no stallion service certificate & God forbid, if the seller doesn't put that breeding on the stallion report, you have NO proof this mare was ever exposed to that stallion. You are just out in the cold if you can't get it later when the foal is born.

Seller might be the nicest person in the world, however, YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT TOMORROW MIGHT BRING. We don't like to think about it, but maybe that seller won't be with us anymore by the time the foal is born. Or even you. And who's to do the paperwork then, or do the chasing down at your end? When a bred mare leaves here, it leaves with a stallion service cert.

The AMHR rule is, as Lewella said, that the service certificate must go with the bred mare. The rule here is, if there's no certificate, there's no proof, so that mare won't come home with us. Been doing minis for a long time, and always a certificate comes here with the mare. There are always other mares/stallions out there. Just a breeding cert won't prove it if the breeder doesn't put it on the stallion report, but at least it gives you a legal leg to stand on if there's an argument or the seller is gone/forgetful/lazy/ill/deceased/stubborn/etc.

No breeding certificate. No sale. IMHO. But your sale is already done. I don't know what I'd do to get it if it wasn't initially given. Guess you just have to trust them. Nothing wrong with trust, that's for sure, but when stuff gets to be on a legal level, I'd like to have it in writing. Hope it all works out.
 
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smlotsocats

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Was the price you paid for the mare for an open mare, pregnant mare or not specified? I once bought a Paint mare that was advertised at a certain price as bred. When the person took the mare to have her coggins and paperwork done they also had her palpated. The vet said not in foal so the mare was sold at a cheaper rate. Well, a few months later is was pretty apparent that the mare really WAS in foal so I contacted the breeder and they were perfectly willing to send me the breeders certificate as long as I paid the difference that was taken off when they sold her as open which I did. I don't know about the mini's, but for Paints and AQHA, I have to put in my stallion report EVERY mare that the stallion has been exposed to, confirmed in foal or not. That way if something like this ever happens, the report has already been made and there are no late fees or misunderstandings. Trying to remember breeding dates a year or so later is a little difficult too. Some people also want to wait to give the certificate until the foal is born as well. I would just ask them in no uncertain terms, WHEN you will get the breeders certificate and if there is a problem as far as further amounts due or what
 

Ashley

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I know I have a person waiting on me to send them a certificate. BUt rest assured it will be there. I normally fill mine out and send them out when I do the stud reports(which is normally Sept. ) I do it this way as then I KNOW i have all the necessary mares on the stud reports. Just something I do, for the sake of accuracy on my part, have always done it this way, or part of the time, not until the mare actually foals a foal.

Beleive it or not we did actually have somebody try to use the breeders certificate on the mare when the foal was out of one of there stallions.
 

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