Someone other than a vet

[kdbj]

With the high cost veterinarians are charging in this area, I have been hearing of more and more horse owners (not necessarily mini's) having someone other than a vet geld their stallions. Living in farm country an awful lot of farmers castrate their own farm animals, calves, etc. and horse owners are now having a "non-vet" type persons geld their horses. Thank goodness all the "stories" I have heard have been very successful. Before everyone starts commenting on all the bad/negative things that could happen, etc. etc., I am fully aware of all the pros and cons.....

My question really is does AMHR or AMHA specify that gelding must be done by a veterinarian? I got to wondering about this and printed off a gelding certificate (AMHR) and all it asks for is "signature of person who performed the operation" and address.

 

[Voodoo]

I don't know about the rules in AMHA/AMHR, but I do know that gelding can be very sucessfully done by someone other than a vet. My dad has gelded all but one stallion that I have had and they have all actually come out of it better than the one that went to the vet. He had a hard time coming out of the anastetic (sp?) and he had much more swelling than those done at home. We give them some ace and then just tie them down and geld. I know alot of people really don't agree with me, but that's how we've always done it and had no problems with it.

 

[Marty]

Just about everyone up here gelds their own and oh brother......I am not about to tell you how they do it either because it gave me a heart attack.......... a lot of the farriers do it especially as thier "second profession"...............

 

[lilhorseladie]

Ha! I have assisted twice with vet geldings of my own horses and helped my dad with many also. I would probably have dad do the next ones here on the farm if I had a choice...But the other day I was so mad at my stallion, if I were bigger, he would have been a gelding right there!

 

[minih]

I go with my vet, if there were any screw ups I would have to call him anyway and have to tell him why I didn't call him in the first place. And I would really feel bad if it was just because of money...... sometimes cleaning up someone elses mess costs more also not to mention the pain to the little horse. I go to the doctor when I need to, why shouldn't I call a vet?

Not sure on your question, I have always had the vet do it for here, so not sure. That is a good question tho.

 

[Relic]

when we took one in a while back all we had to do was sign and date the gelding certificate for the A they never asked if a vet did or didn't do it.

 

[justaboutgeese]

We have a local Mennonite who does more castrations per year than any three vets in this area. He charges $40.00 for an animal if he is only doing one. There is a dicsount for several animals at the same location. I have never heard of one of his gone bad. Now years ago at a local auction we attended every once in awhile. It was a twice a month auction but we attended two or three times a year. There was a man there who would geld a horse in the loading chute as they were being loaded. He only charged $10.00 per horse but at that time it was still cheap compared to a vet. I watched him several times and he would climb right down in the chute behind the stallion and do the deed. I am not sure I would have had nerve enough to climb in behind MOST of those animals let alone perform any kind of procedure. I have castrated untold numbers of hogs with just a sharp pocket knife. We would castrate and innoculate every week. It was a matter of economics, there is not enough margin in hogs if you have to pay for procedures like that you would be in a negative position from the time you had the vet in the driveway.

 

[bevann]

I would NEVER have anyone other than a vet do any of my horses.There are some Amish guys around here that do it, but I have heard some horror stories of horses bleeding to death .It is a surgical procedure and I know many guys that won't even watch a horse get castrated.Ask them how they would like to have their private parts cut off with out having some really good meds.Pigs&calves are not usually family pets like most our horses are so I don't hink that is a good comparison. IMO

 

[Black Magic]

I have to say, that around here, there are so many many vets that we aren't even aware of others that do such a thing. However, after seeing our "R" mini gelded, I'd never let anyone other then the vet do it, and I'd tell him to bring his assistant this time around.

Good Ole Magic... could not be sedated for the longest period of time, plus we had needles all over the place. The moment one would touch his neck he'd fling it off. We had double leads on him, and the vet and I fought just to get close enough to him to sedate him. When all was said and done, my hands as well as the vets were swollen like catcher's mits. The vet said he gave him enough sedative to bring down a good sized QH.. and the vet didn't finish one moment too quick! He chased the vet to the gate, trying to kick his truck! Any silver Yukon goes down the street now (18 mos later) and he's running the fence trying to get to that vehicle... (I think he thinks the vet is in there, and he's the devil ... or something).

The only saving grace is putting in his trailer with a slant divider and having the trailer tie short, and the vet leaning over.... awkward but it works.

Whoever these people are... they are certainly BRAVE BRAVE BRAVE!

But no, I'll stick to the vet. Heck if doctor's can goof with people, I can imagine that a non vet would have a slight risk..... and if this isn't a family member or someone well known for his work, why take the risk???

I'm still upset with a certain farrier... almost a year later, and now we have beautiful hooves... but jeez... wasn't a good experience with our former one..

JMO

God Bless

LynnW

 

[shminifancier]

I know that when I had my Shetland Gelded I DID use a vet BUT a SMALL animal vet to do the operation on Josh because he had only descended one testicle and I did not want to haul him to Stillwater, Minn and pay close to 1,000 bucks

So I had a friend that was working as a vet tech at a small animal clinic and she talked to her boss and bingo they did it for just over 200 She did say how ever she would not do that again...lol....I wonder why?

So yes I used a vet but a small animal one

After all josh WAS a Small animal a Shetland Pony at 40 inches

 

[Jill]

This really alarms me!!! I have had many horses gelded, ALL by my vet. In one case, there were some complications regarding an adult stallion (my heart, Derby!), but he was okay in the end. It scares me to think if I had a non-vet geld him if they'd have been able to stop his bleeding, prescribe the meds he needed, etc. I'd never, ever use anyone but a vet. This is surgery we are talking about. I don't have a clue what the registries would accept as to a certificate signed by a non-vet but I would hope in the interest of the animal, that they require a vet's sign off.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

No choice here, and, if you are honest, over there either. It is AGAINST THE LAW for any non-vet to practise Veterinary medicine or procedures- ASK LYN!!!!! As to doing it without anaesthetic- shame on you- SHAME!! That is just downright cruel. Try it- next time YOU need an op and the Doctor says "Oh we have this really experienced Mennonite/Amish guy here who will do it for a third of the price BUT you get no anaesthetic, we just hold you down, or you pay full price." Which would you do?? Be honest now, WHICH?????

 

[Minimor]

Rabitsfizz

That's exactly right. We've always used a vet & always will use a vet....last time we had a horse gelded our vet commented on how there are still people who do this procedure without knocking the horse out, and how unspeakably cruel it is to put an animal through a surgical procedure without anesthetic. I'd have to agree with her. Anyone who doesn't think so should try having surgery themselves, no anesthetic, just a have someone hold/tie them down....

But to answer the initial question here--AMHR does accept a certificate signed by someone other than a vet (cannot say about AMHA). I know that because I do know someone who has done a couple horses that way, & they had no problem with the paperwork at AMHR.

 

[Hosscrazy]

Years ago I lived on a ranch where castration by the ranch hand. Those memories will haunt me for the rest of my life.

If you required surgery, would you let anyone but a medical doctor perform the surgery on you? Probably not. And that's how I feel about my horses. No one but my vet touches my horses.

 

[Mona]

I was looking for something related to dogs on the Ontario Humane Society website, and came across this in the "Press Relaeses" section. I could not just copy a link as this info was in a pop-up window, so no url provided, so I will copy/paste below what it says. Just something to keep in mind...

MEDIA RELEASE
Horse dies following castration. Man faces cruelty charges.

Newmarket, Ont. (23 September, 2004) –

Levi Miller, 49, of Norwich Township, was charged on September 15 with four counts of animal cruelty under the Criminal Code of Canada after a horse he allegedly castrated died following serious complications.

On May 31, 2004 Miller allegedly castrated the horse without the use of a sedative or local anesthetic. Following the procedure the horse herniated a large amount of intestines through the incision. A veterinarian was called, but the horse had been “put down†before the veterinarian arrived due to its suffering. The Ontario SPCA was informed of the incident following the horse’s death.

“People often take horses to non-veterinarians to be castrated because it seems cheaper than calling in a veterinarian,†says Senior Inspector Darren Grandel. “But this is a surgical procedure that, in our opinion, should only be performed by a licensed veterinarian using a sedative or local anesthetic so that the animal does not suffer. What may seem like a ‘deal’ can end up costing a lot more – most importantly, an animals life.â€

Following the investigation Miller was charged with one indictable offence – wilfully injuring the horse, and three summary conviction charges: wilfully causing unnecessary pain to the horse; wilfully causing unnecessary suffering to the horse; and wilfully causing unnecessary injury. If convicted of the indictable offence, Miller faces up to five years in jail. The summary conviction charges carry a maximum penalty of six months in jail and/or a $2,000 fine and/or a two-year prohibition from owning animals.

Miller is scheduled to appear in Ontario Court of Justice, Woodstock on October 26, 2004.

To report suspected animal abuse call the Ontario SPCA at 1-888-ONT-SPCA (668-7722) extension 1, Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-TIPS (8477), your local Ontario SPCA Branch, affiliated humane society or police.

For media enquiries, please call: Senior Inspector Darren Grandel, 1-888-ONT-SPCA (668-7722) extension 315, [email protected].

A word about the Ontario Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (Ontario SPCA):

Protecting animals since 1873, the Ontario SPCA is a registered charity comprised of 27 branches and 31 affiliated humane societies and SPCAs. Under the OSPCA Act, Ontario SPCA investigators have the same powers as police officers when enforcing animal cruelty laws. The Society’s concern is ensuring the welfare of all animals – large and small, wild and domesticated – through cruelty investigations, animal care and rehabilitation, government and industry advocacy, and public education.

Charitable Business Number 88969-1044-RR0002

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

call me paranoid but.. there are always things that can go wrong no matter how slight the chance that someone other then a vet may not know how to handle..

for me it is worth the 150 bucks to have my vet do it

 

[susanne]

Do you consider your horses livestock or pets?

When the animals are considered simply livestock, economic considerations are placed above the animal's life and emotional attachments. With pets, the animal's well-being is of supreme importance.

...and I take it a step further - my horses, dogs and cats are my kids.

That said, would you hire the butcher or your neighborhood plumber to circumcise your son?

 

[MiniHoofBeats]

Wow it is odd that this topic came up now! We just had news that a local vet did a farm call to castrate a stallion and brought along a fresh graduate veterinarian student to do her very first on the job castration! Everything went fine, she reached in and snipped one side, then snipped the other and the day went by with no problems. 2 weeks later a call comes into the vets office, the horse they had gelded was urinating from his incision...the young vet snipped his penis instead of his testicle!!

So, I have no idea how they fixed that problem yet, we're waiting to find out what vets office this was from and what happened to the poor ...half gelding!

 

[stormy]

I have had colts done by an Amish gentleman. I lightly tranquilized them and gave them pain medication myself. The animals were done standing, bled much less, had less swelling and recovered faster than many I have had done laid down. The one consideration here is all these colts were fully dropped with well developed testicles, I have my vet do those colts with the "floating" ones that want to go up and down or have not dropped through the ring yet. With the dangers presented by anesthesia in horses either way is a risk.

 

[Charlotte]

Vets only! I can guarnatee you that! With the horse under full sedation. Nobody is cutting on a horse of mine while they are awake!

Flame me if you want, but I feel that is barbaric. and are you sure the 'gelder' knows how to get all of the hormone producing tissue so you don't end up with a 'proud cut' horse?

I have been having vets geld horses under sedation, lying down, for over 40 years....big and little horses. Never had a problem and most of them never acted sore or experienced much if any swelling.

Charlotte