Smallest?

[Crystalbank]

In the future Id like to breed downwards in size as some of mine are 37", and now the smallest I have is 34" (would have been smaller if I hadn't of lost Pink)

What do you all consider as the limit for safety etc?

 

[Jill]

I think it really has more to do with refinement than size. I had two maiden mares bred to stallions taller than them, but the stallions are nicely refined. In 2008 our 32" maiden had a foal by a 34" stallion, and already in 2009 our 30" mare had a foal by a 33" stallion. Both were easy births and gorgeous buckskin fillies were the result. I think it's got so much more to do with the bone structure of the horses than the height difference... look at all the sport ponies we breed here out of Welsh mares by Thoroughbred Stallions!

In my herd, my two stallions are 33" and 31". My smallest mare is te 30" one who recently foaled. She will be bred back SOON to the 33" stallion (the 31" is her paternal brother, and I don't feel they'd cross as well...).

 

[Becky]

My smallest breeding age mare is 28" and she is expecting her 2nd foal anytime. I have several mares that are 29" - 30.50". All have been bred to stallions up to 31.75" and foal with no problems. As Jill said, bone stucture is the most important issue when deciding what pairs to breed together.

 

[wildoak]

I've bred a 27" mare with no problems. She has easily delivered two foals, but she was bred both times to a refined 30" stallion who produces very small, refined babies. The mare herself is refined but she has plenty of pelvic width. I've bred several in thhe 29 - 31" range as well, no problems. Look at the build of your mares as well as the refinement/bone structure of what she's being bred to. I do have a couple of mares - one tiny 28" and a 30" - who will not be bred. The little one, vet suggested she is not wide enough to safely deliver a foal. The 30" mare we tried and tried to get in foal with no success. Vet palpated and said she is very small internally, so perhaps there was a reason.

Jan

 

[Genie]

Our stallions are under 30 and our mares are under 32 inches, with the smallest at 27.5.

When we had our 32 inch stallion he bred 30 inch mares who were able to deliver his babies without a problem.

As the others have said, it depends on the build of the mare, and the refinement of the stallion.

 

[Matt73]

My smallest is 33 3/4". My one and only mare (for now) is 34" dead on. I think the smallest I'd go with either a mare or stallion is 30-31".

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Breeding the tiny mares (and as you are in the UK I will just point out that you have to add 1-2" to the US heights

) is OK until something goes wrong, and then it is not OK at all as there is no room for manoeuvre.

I lost a 28" (to the withers) mare to what would have been her third foal, the other two, both by larger stallions, were delivered just fine, no problems at all.

The foal she died for was a minute filly, just dead and so did not turn and so was not able to be passed (was in fact almost folded in half)

Just bear this in mind.

I will not now breed from anything under 30".

I have two tiny fillies, both going to mature around 26-28", and they shall just have to stay here unless I can find a home I trust not to breed form them.

Your best way of getting height down is to stick with the mares you have and get a tiny stallion.

Come and see me!!

 

[minie812]

We had one foal last year that was by Fiesta (29 1/2") and Gracie (30") and they produced a tiny filly who is 27" this year. We will be having 5 foals by him this year and he is very refined and small boned and the mares are 28" up to 35" (step ladder,please)

I am selling off some of my taller girls to stay with smaller mares. Just my preference I like the little ones.

 

[Joanne]

Just to add to Jill and Becky's posts, BOTH horses conformation is important.

I agree with the refined stallion when breeding to a small mare.

But you also have to have a small mare that has ample hip room so she can successfully pass the foal.

A refined head on the stallion is a must.

 

[Crystalbank]

Thanks for the advice all. Both of my stallions are smaller than the mares and are fine boned.

I'm going to stick to the heights I have then, maybe a teeny tiny bit smaller.

 

[Katiean]

My rule is NEVER breed a BIGGER stud to a SMALLER mare. If you are going to breed down it should be with the stud and a larger mare. Or breed the same size. My mares are 32" and there is a 25" stud I want to breed to. I would not breed a 25" mare. When breeding a larger stud to the smaller mare you run the risk of the foal being too big for the mare. If your mare is larger, she will have no problem with a smaller foal and if it happens to be a larger foal the mare herself being larger can handel it. Well, unless it is a freakishly large foal which we all hope never happens.

 

[Dona]

My rule is NEVER breed a BIGGER stud to a SMALLER mare. If you are going to breed down it should be with the stud and a larger mare. Or breed the same size. My mares are 32" and there is a 25" stud I want to breed to. I would not breed a 25" mare. When breeding a larger stud to the smaller mare you run the risk of the foal being too big for the mare. If your mare is larger, she will have no problem with a smaller foal and if it happens to be a larger foal the mare herself being larger can handel it. Well, unless it is a freakishly large foal which we all hope never happens.

This isn't necessarily true. Whether or not a mare has trouble foaling has little to do with her size.....the important factor is whether she is roomy enough "inside" (wide hips, etc) to foal easily. You can have a vet check this out very easily. There are many tall mares who just aren't built for foaling, who would have trouble no matter what size stallion you bred them to.

Also, there are many small stallions that come from bigger bloodlines, who routinely sire big foals. Just because you have a tiny stallion, doesn't guarantee he is going to throw small babies. If that tiny stallion is big boned & blocky, he will in all likelihood sire foals like that, which would be difficult for the mares to foal. I would suggest that anyone who wants to breed for the smaller foals, do your research & check out the backgrounds of the stock you intend to use. See what the stallion has thrown over the years & what sizes his foals have matured to. Do the same with the mares.

Many long-time breeders of tiny mares will tell you, if you use the right "refined" stallions....you can safely breed to smaller mares with much success.

I, myself, have bred 31" stallions to mares as small as 27" with no problems at all. Foals are small & refined & mares foaled them out easily.

This being said......as Rabbitfizz already mentioned....the ONLY problem with breeding the under 30" mares, is that if there IS a dystocia (which can happen with ANY sized mare) there is very little room in which to manuver the foal.

 

[Songcatcher]

I currently have two mares, 29.5 and 30 inches tall, bred. Both are maiden mares. One is bred to my 29 inch Rowdy grandson and the other (purchased in foal) to a very refined 33 inch stallion. I personally prefer to breed to a smaller stallion, but I know many successfully breed to taller stallions. The only mares I have ever had have problems foaling were 32 + inch mares and both bred to stallions smaller than them.

I have not personally bred any mares smaller than 29-30 inches, but I know Tony Greaves does regularly and has great success.

 

[icspots]

I agree that refinement in the stallion, and ample room with the mare are more of a factor than height, but I have to say it isn't the stallions HEAD you need to worry about as much as the amount of SHOULDER he passes, maybe I'm sheltered here, but I don't think I've ever seen a head too big to emerge, but sometimes we have them hang up at the shoulder and have to do some manuvering to get them out!

 

[Dona]

I agree that refinement in the stallion, and ample room with the mare are more of a factor than height, but I have to say it isn't the stallions HEAD you need to worry about as much as the amount of SHOULDER he passes, maybe I'm sheltered here, but I don't think I've ever seen a head too big to emerge, but sometimes we have them hang up at the shoulder and have to do some manuvering to get them out!

The amount of "shoulder" you speak of, would fall under the "refinement" category. That is why you want to use refined stallions.

 

[Jill]

I agree with what's being said... But it's making me think again that some people (not necessarily those talking here) will confuse a cute / dishy head with meaning the horse is refined. It's a lot more than a nice head, but the overall bone structure and build in my eyes. While I do like an attractive head, it doesn't automatically mean a horse is refined if it possesses one. I like fine boned horses but with enough substance to actually do things, so a good chest, a good hip/butt, but still refined.

 

[ontherisefarm]

as Jill said you want refinement but without the fragility. Too much refinement and you can run the risk of too narrow in the chest,and pelvic area which can cause problems with that horse foaling.No room in the hips to pass the foal and you definitely have problems. I hope I have stated what I meant correctly.

 

[Trinity Farms]

This isn't necessarily true. Whether or not a mare has trouble foaling has little to do with her size.....the important factor is whether she is roomy enough "inside" (wide hips, etc) to foal easily. You can have a vet check this out very easily. There are many tall mares who just aren't built for foaling, who would have trouble no matter what size stallion you bred them to.
This being said......as Rabbitfizz already mentioned....the ONLY problem with breeding the under 30" mares, is that if there IS a dystocia (which can happen with ANY sized mare) there is very little room in which to manuver the foal.

Dona is right. I have known a mare that was actually bred to a smaller stallion, but she had a raised pelvic bone and couldn't give birth. Unfortunately the mare and foal were lost.

But we have all of our mares checked to see how large they are on the inside. We would always reather be safe than sorry. Don't assume that if you breed a mare to the same-sized stallion that the foal won't be larger. Hope this helps!!

 

[Tenltraining]

We have some 30 inch mares that have been foaling just fine. We use refined stallions with nice refined heads. I agree with Donna, its not always the height of the horses that matters as much. We have an excellent vet clinic nearby and I have many of my maiden mares checked before breeding to see if they have enough room in there. My vet will tell me if the mare is narrower or plenty big enough. It can really surprise you as some 33 inch mares can be smaller inside than the smaller mares. That way I also have a good indication of which stallion I will breed that maiden mare to.

This keeps my mares safer and hopefully things will go well when foaling time comes along. We have been very lucky on a percentage basis so far.

We know the backgrounds on all of our stallions, sizes, heights and bone structure. I know and have seen the horses in their backgrounds for several generations as I have been in the minis since the very first amha show! We have also raised some of them as well so that really helps as far as having the more refined foals and they have themselves become great broodmares upon maturity.

Laura

 

[icspots]

OK, so now wimpy shoulders are considered refined?? I guess my definition of refinement is smaller bones overall, however some studs have a tendency to throw babies that look 4 months old at birth and they aren't "course" by any means. Also with the smaller bones, I would hope that the head would also be smaller proportionately, so if everyone is in fact using such "refined" stallions, then I wouldn't think to mention that head would be an issue....