Showing dogs

[runamuk]

OK I would have done this sooner but I have not been able to get on the forum until last night........

so starting a new topic as requested..................

Taking the topic and running with it..................

Which breeds are hardest to show either due to popularity or politics?

Which breeds make good novice dogs...you know for the kids?

I have virtually grown up surrounded by people who show dogs yet I have never had the hankering to do it myself...and I definately still do not have desire to breed midwifing for others is plenty enough puppying for me

But I am truly curious about the pro's and cons of some of the breeds and or groups in general.......

If it were rabbits I could give a list of tough competition, good kids rabbits, good beginner rabbits and rabbits only meant for the die hard rabbit people

I find this sport of dog showing interesting and enjoy hearing the perspectives of people who are still active or were in the past.

 

[ForMyACDs]

This is what I've seen in the dog show world.

The flashier breed that tend to do well in groups are usually tough for beginners because there are a lot of pros in those breeds. Also the breeds that require a lot of grooming are tough ones as well as the breeds where there are TONS of entries (Labs, Goldens etc) tend to be far tougher for owner/handlers.

From what I've seen the toughest breeds would be: German Shepherds, Poodles (of all sizes), Boxers, Dobermans, Rottweilers, all the Mastiffs, German Shorthairs, Bearded Collies, Old English Sheepdogs, Fox Terriers (wire haired and smooth haired), Pembroke Corgis and many of the wire haired terriers.

When I chose my breed (Australian Cattle Dogs) I was looking for a low maintenance breed that I could be successful in the show ring with as an owner/handler. There are breeds out there that you can do well with. Most of them are the less flashy breeds or the breeds where there aren't generally many entries.

The best thing to do is to attend a few dog shows and see what types of people are showing. When a breed is done in the ring that you're interested in ask questions (it's polite to wait until they're done showing.....that way they no longer need to concentrate on what's going on in the ring).

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]I agree....the more poplar a breed the larger the entry numbers required to make a major win. To get a championship title in the us you need 15 points including two major wins of 3 points or more.... the number of dogs required is different in each district. you can find the points required on the AKC web site. For us for example here in VA 7 dogs or 9 bitches are required for a 3 point major on Long Haired Dachshunds. If however there is a major in one sex but not in the other and you were winners whatever the lower one was but then are chosed Best of Winners or Best of breed or variety then you also get the same # of points. If I am showing a bitch... and there is a total of only 6 bitches.... but, there are 7 dogs total being shown in the classes.... if I get winners Bitch AND Best of Winners then I also get the 3 points that the winners dog got. See??? Breeds such as lab, dobermans, shepards, rotties require in the double digits to have 3 point majors...... When I showed Chins 5 dogs was 3 points because at that time they were relatively rare.[/SIZE]

Clear as mud right? lol

Lyn

Here is the link to the AKC points page....find your district and click on it and then find you breed and variety and it will tell you how many points you get depending on the number of entries per sex. Thats not per class now because they are divided by ages 6-9, 9-12. 12-18. open, bred by exhibitor, american bred.


Lyn


http://akc.mondosearch.com/cgi-bin/MsmFind...rch_button.y=12

 

[runamuk]

OK I am kinda surprised beardies are in your list of more difficult...from a grooming standpoint I can see it but at least in the northwest...beardies are few and far between.....interesting.

Lyn I know enough to know the point systems are confusing until you have done it a few times...I had 3 breeds of rabbits and all 3 used a different grouping and point breakdown

:

:

Are there any of the toy group that are better for a novice/newby handler?

I realize one should approach this for the love of a breed especially if going on to breeding....but I am really curious as a sport like showing horses if some of the breeds or groups might be more suited to the rank beginner :bgrin :bgrin

At this point if I ever walk into the dog ring there will be a chow chow at the other end of my leash

: :bgrin

And in the future I figure hubby and I will always have a few dogs as they say it doesn't cost anymore to feed/care for a top notch show dog than a mutt...so when the kids are grown and we are done with the farm a show dog or two might be a fun hobby for retirement

:

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]Chihuahuas are a good beginner dog...wash and wear.... no clipping or stripping either smooth or long coat....still dont need a ton of dogs for a major..... thats and the affenpincher but there is a trick to grooming them right..... Wire doxies are also low major numbers but that puts you back into the hound group.Lyn[/SIZE]

 

[runamuk]

OK my adobe reader still doesn't work at home....arggghh..I have installed and upgraded and re installed about 5 times now.....so cannot read the pdf. files......

OK just for fun I will list dogs that I am attracted to by group pro's and con's appreciated...especially if you have handled or had any actual experience with the breed.........I put an asterik next to the breeds I either own or have had some amount of experience with (just as a pet experience so show comments would be wonderful).....a few listed I have never even seen in person

:

Hounds

Borzoi*

Irish Wolfhound*

Scottish Deerhound

Pharaoh Hound

Terriers

Australian Terrier*

Norwich terrier

Skye terrier*

Toy

Italian Greyhound

Papillon

Non Sporting

Chow chow*

Herding

Austrailian shepherd*

Shetland sheepdog*

Miscellaneous Class

Tibetan mastiff

 

[sfmini]

I disagree that Pembroke Welsh Corgis are hard to show. Yes, you need to groom them, whoopee, damp em down, comb and you are done. Definite wash and wear dogs, I owner handled my boy and he was my first show dog, and let me tell you I was really bad about grooming except after his bath which was the day before the show. They bait easily (can you say will work for food?), you don't have to run like crazy to gait them, there are some handlers out there, but also lots of owner handlers. Cardis are probably easier in that there are fewer of them (at least in Ohio) and most are owner handled.....

Shelties? ooo barkbarkbarkbarkbarkbark and that hair.

 

[runamuk]

I disagree that Pembroke Welsh Corgis are hard to show. Yes, you need to groom them, whoopee, damp em down, comb and you are done. Definite wash and wear dogs, I owner handled my boy and he was my first show dog, and let me tell you I was really bad about grooming except after his bath which was the day before the show. They bait easily (can you say will work for food?), you don't have to run like crazy to gait them, there are some handlers out there, but also lots of owner handlers. Cardis are probably easier in that there are fewer of them (at least in Ohio) and most are owner handled.....

Shelties? ooo barkbarkbarkbarkbarkbark and that hair.

heehee yep shelties definately bark bark bark....(most I have known over the years were de barked and STILL barked up a storm) They are sweet dogs though for the most part.....and well ....I tend to like hairy dogs :bgrin

OK so your vote is corgi's

:

 

[mininik]

I haven't shown dogs (yet) but have groomed professionally including many Papillions and think most are smart and cute. I also have a great Obedience training book for small dogs written by two women who are very successful with their Paps in Agility who seem think about the same as I do about the breed (although I would never own one).

:

Not too long ago I had been researching and hoping to get an IG (Italian Greyhound) to show but have decided to go with a Chinese Crested, instead. IGs are just too fragile for me with too many horror stories of injured legs from jumping off of furniture, etc.

I'm currently owned by a Toy Poodle and love him more than any dog I've ever known but wouldn't show in conformation with one due to the grooming demands. I'd also like to mention that as a professional groomer I did NOT like grooming Corgis, at all. It's been my experience that their coats always take forever to dry and being a Poodle person I just don't like shedding.

:

 

[Jenn]

The only dogs we've ever shown have been Chihuahuas and frankly, there isn't much competition in Alberta, Canada for them, so it's hard to get a Championship. At one show, the competition saw our tiny female (Noel, 2.5 lbs.) and scratched because they were afraid to lose.

My mom is considering enlisting some handlers and showing all of our dogs against each other just to get some points. She has four females and one male now, all but one female (Noel, she's just too small!) is or will be used for breeding.

This is Noel doing her baby seal impression:

One judge said Noel had the most perfect head she'd ever seen.

And this is Noel's mommy, Minnie, who is my favorite:

 

[Robin1]

I have shown Akitas, Labs, Anatolian Shepherds and my Tibetan Spaniel.

Labs need too many points. There aren't too many Tibbies so you don't need the number in the class, however its not uncommon for you to be the only one showing.

If I had to pick a wash and wear dog, that does well in the ring, and is just plain cute. I would go for the 13" Beagle. I can't tell you how many times I've seen those cuties kick butt in the Group ring.

:

Robin

 

[Mini_Bre]

Im with Robin1...a beagle!!!! They are little yet very sturdy dogs. They have great personalities and are very showy. And typically are a wash and wear dog even though it does include some clipping and stripping (depending on the coat and if you feel the need to do so).

Atleast in my area there always seem to be competition and yet there isn't to many dogs required for points.

Hope you find the perfect dog for you, no matter what the breed!

Bre

 

[anoki]

I'm going to agree with sfmini about the corgi!!! Although I am very new to the dog showing world, and I don't know how close the cardigans are to the pembrokes in regards to grooming.....but I was at my very first dog show just over a month ago now and I couldn't believe the grooming that was going on with some of the breeds!!! I gave Moxie a bath on the Thursday night...we showed Fri to Sun, and all I did before I went in the ring was brush her coat (and fluff up her 'pants' a little too)...and it was me showing her. In fact the breeder tried to take her around the ring just as practice and Moxie flipped out!! I'm not saying there aren't politics involved in any breed, because on the Saturday we came out with nothing....though the judge kept telling the breeder what a nice puppy she was, but she gave it to the pro handler (who had chalked him, fluffed up his coat, etc, etc) with the older dog. Sunday on the other hand....the EXACT opposite....different judge too, and I ended up Best of Breed. I think there are politics in every thing to some extent!

So my vote is corgi (though I tend to favour the cardigans over the pembrokes

: ). Good luck though with whatever breed you might get!

~kathryn

 

[sfmini]

I do chalk, but learned an easy way to do it. I use the waterless shampoo on the feet, rub with a towel and apply the chalk. Crate the dog after chalking (I use a toothbrush and loose chalk), and voila! Nice white feet without dealing with the kolesterol stuff that I always end up with too much of and have a gunky mess!

I was at a meeting just yesterday and there were six puppies that are 1/2 siblings to my boy CH Forfox Face The Music and are related to my little show b*tch on the dam's topline. Guess I will be looking at those babies in a few weeks again, after all how hard is it to show more than one? :bgrin

This is my champion dog:

All owner handled to all points, I might add!

 

[capall beag]

Honestly, I think if you get a really good dog they should be able to do well.

One of my pups a labrador is a Canadian Champion she got this in two weekends and she has I think 10 points towards her American Championship, also received at a couple of shows. She is a natural champion, all she needs is a clean and a brush out to win. Yes, she is a special dog and I knew this the minute she was born, she had it all. She also has her CGC, WC and I think JH too. She is owned and shown by a friend of mine, no big bucks have been spent on her. I named her Luna's Rising Star, my dog is Luna, that is how confident I was that she would do well!

Labradors are very competitive but a great show dog stands out even among big competition.

My suggestion would be to find a breed you love, research the different breeders and be patient and wait for the right pup.

I think it is often easier to find this type of pup from a newer/smaller breeder because a well known breeder often will keep all their show quality pups and definately won't sell a dog that they think has the potential to go to the top. I was a newbie to this and really lucked out breeding such an exceptional pup, my friend who has bred and owned labs for close to 20 years said she was one of the best looking labs she had ever seen

:

: Of course, that was music to my ears!

:

Good Luck in your search!

 

[ForMyACDs]

I disagree that Pembroke Welsh Corgis are hard to show. Yes, you need to groom them, whoopee, damp em down, comb and you are done. Definite wash and wear dogs, I owner handled my boy and he was my first show dog, and let me tell you I was really bad about grooming except after his bath which was the day before the show. They bait easily (can you say will work for food?), you don't have to run like crazy to gait them, there are some handlers out there, but also lots of owner handlers. Cardis are probably easier in that there are fewer of them (at least in Ohio) and most are owner handled.....

I certainly didn't mean that they're difficult to groom......around here tho' they're are LOTS of 'em and the competition is REALLY stiff. This is one breed that's likely regional.

 

[ForMyACDs]

HoundsBorzoi*

Irish Wolfhound*

Scottish Deerhound

Pharaoh Hound

The Irish Wolfhounds I know of are mostly owner handled. Don't know about the Deerhounds. The trouble with Pharoah Hounds is getting ahold of one.....particularly after "Bunny" did so well at Westminster last year (was it last year? I can't remember).

TerriersAustralian Terrier*

Norwich terrier

Skye terrier*

I only know that most of the coated terriers I see are with handlers.....that could be regional tho'

ToyItalian Greyhound

Papillon

IG's are usually pretty tough around here.......really tough. Don't know about Papillions tho'.

Non SportingChow chow*

Another breed I see a LOT of handlers with.....Personally, I've only shown them once.....the classes were huge and I was lucky to even get a second look.

HerdingAustrailian shepherd*

Shetland sheepdog*

Both are usually tough breeds. There are TONS of Aussies in the classes around here (almost beginning to rival the labs). Shelties are almost always in the final group line-up around here and the classes tend to be larger. As far as my mention of the Beardies earlier? It's not that they're difficult to groom or that their classes are large......we just almost always see all handlers in the classes. It's just one of those flashy breeds that handlers tend to gravitate toward because they have a better chance at higher group placings. I have shown Briards very successfully tho'. There do tend to be a lot of BIG handlers in that breed, but you can still be successful with a non-pro on the lead (I was fill-in and took BOB several times with a NICE young male over some VERY big handlers ......ie. even the "Green Team".)

Miscellaneous ClassTibetan mastiff

The toughest part of this breed will be finding a good one.......everyone and their brother seem to be breeding them but I haven't seen many good ones.

My second choice for a show dog breed is a Manchester Terrier. I love the toys, but would need to have something to hold up to my ACDs so a Standard Manchester MAY be in my future.

 

[runamuk]

Thank you very much ACD's...that is what I was wondering.......I am a bit surprised the the IW's are an owner handled....the pharoah's are just so darned elegant and regal.....tibetans I have done some research on and they are primarily a guard dog in tibet and not alot of consistency there more of a type with well known nasty dispositions in their native country............I had assumed the aussies and shelties would be tough and large classes everywhere.....

OK so tell me about the manchesters....I find them very attractive even though I am so not a terrier person....I have had min pins and I love the breed but do not like living with them..my experience is they do not housetrain.......(I don't need to start the housebreaking wars this is just my experience

: )

 

[Shelley]

You are going to have to battle the professional handlers in any breed, however some breeds are worse than others in that regard. As well as the politics.

Let's see, what breeds have I shown over the past 30 years (mine and others) ....Afghan Hound, Siberian Husky, Border Terrier, Portugese Water Dog, Whippet, and of course Salukis are what come to mind. And if my new Cavalier King Charles Spaniel puppy turns out to be good enough, she'll be in the ring next May.

Of your hound picks, the Irish Wolfhound and the Scottish Deerhound are both nice dogs which should be easy for a novice to finish on their own, providing you can find the competition. I LOVE Pharaoh Hounds, but have heard they can be pretty quirky and competition is almost non-existant around here. (BTW, Bunny is NOT a Pharoah Hound...she is an Ibizian Hound).

A Beagle could be nice, and there would be minimal grooming. A Whippet would also be great for a beginner as they are push button show dogs and owner handlers can win, and there is usually competition. Of course, my favorite Hound breed is the Saluki.

One thing you have to be aware of with most of the Terrier breeds is that the grooming is a nightmare. When my husband got his first Border he was told that they are shown in natural coat! What a joke!!! The terrier coats must be stipped and rolled and it takes hours and hours and hours. You would not believe the hours spent on one 14 lb. Border Terrier. And although he did finish one and I put points on the other, at least in this area the Terriers really are handler's breeds.

I LOVE IG's and Papillions! Probably easier to transport to the shows, too, than the larger breeds.

That would be another consideration...a large breed requires large crates to fit in your vehicle. We've received some strange looks from car salesmen when we arrive with our tape measure in hand and demand to know how easy the back seats are removed from that van! LOL. Showing dogs is really a lifestyle. We have to tow our horse trailer with a van instead of a pickup.

Australian Shepherds are great. I've owned two. Shelties can be a nice dog too, but my best friend used to show them and even had to attend grooming seminars, there are so many tricks to getting their coats just right. (but boy could she ever give my Sibes a hairdo with all her Sheltie grooming knowledge!)

:

I've said it before, go to the dog shows, talk to the breeders, and observe. Do you like the personalities of the dogs you meet? How much pre-ring grooming work is really involved? Is there competition for the breed? etc.

Decide how much equipment you want to bring to the show, and how much grooming you want to do. When I showed Sibes I couldn't show them when they blew coat. It took hours to get one ready the day before the show. I had to bring a grooming table and lots of grooming tools to the show and allow an hour per dog (which isn't great when you have an 8am ringtime and two or three dogs to get ready).

Take your time deciding. After I decided to go back to my sighthound roots and get a Saluki I literally went to shows and videotaped for two years to find the "type" I liked.

Have fun choosing! And remember, pick a breed that will be compatible with your family. In reality, you are at shows a very small percentage of the time.

Shelley

 

[Stacy Score]

Hi Rori,

I love showing my Havanese - it is a fairly new AKC breed so the competition is still up and comming - that said, it means that there are not a lot of professional handlers in the breed yet, so it is still fun to show and you can win (I actually one 2 majors in one weekend with my 6 month b**itch!) They are a small dog - about 10-12 lbs and around 11" tall, but VERY sturdy and full of mischief - their playfulness and expression are a big part of the show ring judging criteria - along with all the standard conformational stuff. They have a LOT of hair - non shedding and hypoallergenic so if you like to fool around with a coat - you will have plenty to keep you busy -- they are NOT allowed to be "show cliipped" - they are to be shown in a natural coat and all you are allowed to do is tidy up their feet somewhat (and I mean very little clipping even to tidy they up) and some around their eyes so that there is no hair growing into them. Check them out on the AKC website and if interested I can point you in the direction of several breeders who you know from the miniature days - I am not expecting any puppies until later this spring.

Stacy