Learning about harness

Discussion in 'Driving Miniature Horses' started by Patty's Pony Place, Nov 9, 2019.

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  1. Nov 9, 2019 #1

    Patty's Pony Place

    Patty's Pony Place

    Patty's Pony Place

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    For people who are new to driving, I see it said so often, that it is difficult to know who to take direction from. I have found over the years that there is a pretty safe formula for how to make the decision. One element that I have found to be a key - is "are they trying to sell you something"? It's funny, as one gal I worked with privately, and publicly for over a year, really did not like the soft Euro collars, agreeing with, and even sharing on her blog, my videos I made showing the truth about them - then, she started selling them, and with that - apparently, they magically became her "go to" thing, AND her pony loves it. Hmm...well, that is most assuredly "her opinion" - which in this specific example, she hides behind "it's just my opinion" in almost EVERY "educational" thing she says or does, or sells. Opinion - it is the lowest form of knowledge, as it requires no facts, and it holds no accountability. That is a good back-up for those who's main goal is "selling".
    We have many, many educational videos on the Patty's Pony Place FB page. We produced them to be a source of solid factual data, existing for people to find and reference when "odd" things start happening with their equipment, when they find their horses doing "inexplicable" things that surely could not have anything to do with said equipment. So what you look for when you are getting started, is information that can be backed up with facts - people who can actually show what is going on - who can explain it to a point of actually making sense - look for function - actual function, not made up opinion about how it functions. Over my years, I have found that those who do that, get nicely set up for both their horses and themselves, and quietly go about their successful driving. If, however, all their friends go with the "popular flow", additional, they might end up doing a lot of driving alone. They are happier for it though, as are their horses.
     
    Margo_C-T likes this.
  2. Nov 11, 2019 #2

    Minimor

    Minimor

    Minimor

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    You are so right--i generally avoid taking advice from anyone who has something to sell. They are often biased for sure. It would not be so bad if they simply explained the benefits of their products, but when they also run down their competition...I steer clear. I find that sort of salesmanship to be unprofessional and just plain petty, and that is not someone I choose to deal with.
     
  3. Nov 11, 2019 #3

    Minidreamz0581

    Minidreamz0581

    Minidreamz0581

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    PPP,

    A respectable business person would not use their competition as a stepping stool to get to the top. This entire post is nothing more than a ‘stepping stool’ disguised as helpful advice. If your information and products are so superior, then you should be able to offer advice and sell your products without insulting anyone.

    Your post is an excellent example of the pot calling the kettle black. ‘Is this person trying to sell me something?’ Since you sell carts and harnesses, yes you are! This is also an excellent example of how the internet; which has so much potential for good, is a two sided coin that can also cause much hurt.

    The truth is that much of the equine world is dependent on the situation, the horse, and the individual. What works for one may not work for another. Yes, there are plenty of black and white areas, but there are even more grey areas where personal preferences reign supreme. This is why advice should be given as just that: advice. One person’s word is not gospel, and there is no room for a ‘my way or the high way’ attitude in horsemanship. Admitting that the advice that you offer is your opinion is a sign of humility, and a sign of a respectable horse person is humility. Stating that all of the information that you post on the gossip site known as Facebook is FACT is nothing more than an arrogant assumption that you know best no matter what the circumstance. Whether you like it or not and whether you admit it or not, horse advice is almost always fact based opinion.


    I see that you decided to use my post ‘Long Road Ahead’ as a reference point with your statement ‘odd’ and ‘inexplicable’ things. I never meant for my post to be used against anyone. (Feel free to claim that these comments were not in reference to my post. Even if they are not; which they most likely are, this is exactly what you did in my thread.) That’s why I did not state the brand of my cart. I did not want someone to twist my comments out of context to hurt the manufacturer. Using my misfortune as a springboard is rude and unacceptable. I can’t believe that someone was heartless enough to do so.


    Opinion-the lowest form of knowledge? Or condescending arrogance-the lowest state of humanity.
     
  4. Nov 11, 2019 #4

    Minidreamz0581

    Minidreamz0581

    Minidreamz0581

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    To those reading this thread and my thread ‘Long Road Ahead’ in which I wrote a response to Patty’s Pony Place:

    It is always wise to review different viewpoints on a topic and asses the matter for yourself. No matter what the brand is or who is supporting it, weigh all information on the scale in your mind. Everyone will say things that you agree with, and they will also say things that you don’t agree with. As a horse owner, your job is to asses that information and determine what is best for you and your horse. Never take one person’s opinion as an absolute.


    Since I am fully aware that my words can and most likely will be twisted in an attempt to make me look like an ignorant fool, I will most likely not respond to any more messages from PPP. Online arguments achieve nothing. When you attempt to discuss a matter with someone such as this, who is arrogant and has no qualms about using others as stepping stools or hurting their feelings in an attempt to win the argument, the writing will merely go in circles and no true goal will be achieved.


    I have no desire to get into a horsemanship debate, I only wish to call out the rude behavior on our (usually) otherwise kind and supportive forum. As equestrians, our job is to encourage each other in our journeys. It hurts me that many equestrian forums quickly turn into places where people simply look for people to hurt for their own gain. This is why the online horse community is notorious for being rude, judgemental, condescending and arrogant. Read through forums and YouTube comments. They are full of hurtful comments and stinging words. Our little miniature horse group is one of the few good ones where more people are kind, supportive, and accepting of those who do not share the same opinions. I truly hope that it can remain that way. There is plenty of hurt and negativity in the world. We don’t need any more.


    Everyone be safe, be kind, have fun, and enjoy your horses.
     
  5. Nov 11, 2019 #5

    MindySchroder

    MindySchroder

    MindySchroder

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    Just to clarify:
    Patty is talking about me. Again.

    I use the Eurostyle collar with a horizontal line of draft ONLY. I would never use this style of collar with a low line of draft, which is what Patty was always poopooing. The soft style of the Eurocollar is not conducive to a low line of draft. I have been told, by people who don't actually own a SuperFlex and/or have never tried one, that they are tipped in such a way that they are designed for a low line of draft. This is untrue. The SuperFlex is not tipped any differently than the Deluxe of the Standard Curve style of breast collar. (And I do know that Patty does not like the Deluxe collar either.) What Patty always talked about was how this style of collar will fold up and become like a vise if used with a low line of draft. It does NOT do this when used with a straight line of draft. I do lots and lots of hill climbing and trail driving with my small pony and my #1 concern is his comfort and safety. So yes, both he and I like this style of breast collar. And believe me, when he doesn't like something he will let me know. Anyone who does a lot of driving and is around their horses and ponies all the time will say they can communicate with us very well.

    I did visit with Patty for a year and I took into account her OPINIONS. Because no matter what, those are what we are sharing when we are talking about harnesses that we like, carts we like and how we do things with our ponies. I would think that many of you understand that there are many many ways to get to the end result. Some work beautifully and some don't work at all. But when you come to a public forum, such as this, and ask for help you will be getting people's opinions. When I was visiting with Patty I did tell her I always have something to learn from everyone, including what I would NOT want to do. And that I have a curious mind that likes to try everything for myself. I am blessed in my job that I have access to many different parts of harness and can try them for myself. And I DO! I try everything! If I don't like then I let the harness maker know what I don't like and what I would want different. So far they have taken my advice and we have re-designed and changed a few things to be better for the small equine. I can't see how that is wrong or bad, but alas, Patty doesn't like it. Or me for that matter.

    I'm sorry this has come here, to the Miniature Horse forum. As soon as she showed up here and started following my posts around, negating what I shared, I would just leave that thread. But this is definitely a direct attack... and for what reason I would ask?

    I'm wondering who this thread is helping?
     
  6. Nov 11, 2019 #6

    Willow Flats

    Willow Flats

    Willow Flats

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    When I first got started with horses, a friend wisely told me that if I asked 10 different horse persons the same question, I'd likely get about 10 different answers and that sometimes I would need to sift through a lot of information before I made my own decisions. This has been so true!

    This forum has been a lifeline to me as I am learning as I go with my two driving horses and no local support available. Carriage driving is not a popular sport in my area and especially for minis. Thank you to those of you who are sharing information on this forum in a positive way, I appreciate you more than you will ever know!
     
  7. Nov 12, 2019 #7

    Marsha Cassada

    Marsha Cassada

    Marsha Cassada

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    I agree. I've been on this forum for a long time and it has helped me immensely. I have few drivers in my area also and I've learned so much here.
     
  8. Nov 15, 2019 #8

    Angie

    Angie

    Angie

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    Ladies, I'm closing this thread as it just needs to go to the bottom of the threads.
    Sorry it's a disagreement.
     
    Crimson Rose and plaid mare like this.
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