Shorthorsemom and Super Ike :)

[drivin*me*buggy]

Adair asked me to post some pix for her from her recent driving lesson..she can fill you in on all the details. They are looking like a great team.

My favorite pic!

Angie

 

[paintponylvr]

Looks great!

Is this one of the Bellcrown vehicles?

 

[shorthorsemom]

Looks great!

Is this one of the Bellcrown vehicles?

Yes, it is the Aerocrown. I LOVE it and so does my boy.. Awesome design.

 

[Ann knight]

Adair , you look great ! btw, your first name is my middle name , how cool is that ( because it isn't that common a name )

Ann

 

[shorthorsemom]

Adair , you look great ! btw, your first name is my middle name , how cool is that ( because it isn't that common a name )

Ann

Even cooler because it is actually it is my middle name too, my first name is Susan. My mom called me by my middle name.

 

[RhineStone]

Love the burgundy vehicle. It's my favorite color.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Looks OK to me apart form (Yes, sorry got to say it) the check rein!

Which harness is that?

Could you possibly pop onto mt thread and post a link for it, or put one here, it looks good.

 

[shorthorsemom]

Looks OK to me apart form (Yes, sorry got to say it) the check rein!

Which harness is that?

Could you possibly pop onto mt thread and post a link for it, or put one here, it looks good.

Hi, The harness came from Center square harness shop in Leola Pa. Mr Esh is a master harness maker, it is amish made. Jaye Ventresca of Regency miniatures told me about it, she has the address and phone number on her web page. No link, to my knowledge they don't have a website but they do answer the phone directly, some amish don't. I love the harness. It is custom made and has a better fit saddle and he uses a new black leather that is as soft as the burgandy. He can also make a saddle with a sliding backband if you want.

On the check... it is a side check, not an over check and Ike pulls me so badly without it to eat grass that my hands get sore and I have no control and he acts like a little butthead very determined to graze. Ironically the side check is the first thing my trainer took off when we started my lessons but after about 20 minutes of torture my trainer put it back on. She says "we will work on it" and we do, but it appears to be a long process because he is very good at testing to see how long we are adjusted on the check. When he quits taking advantage of me, we will loosen the check rein even more. We have it pretty loose now, it hangs pretty loopy and it is adjusted so he can just get his nose down to his knees. He can still grab some grass the way we have it adjusted, but we are working on it. We did put it a bit higher for this lesson by one hole because I hadn't mowed my trail and it was snatch grab and he just couldn't help himself.

I was mowing paths like crazy last night so he couldn't reach so we could let the check out again...

Take care

 

[shorthorsemom]

Love the burgundy vehicle. It's my favorite color.

Thank you, I love the burgundy too,, I kept waffling between the burgandy and the dark blue, hard choice, blue is my favorite color, but I am happy with what I came home with.

 

[RhineStone]

I figured the check was more of an "anti-grazing device" vs. an actual training tool, i.e. positioning the head. He carries his head so low to the ground, I can see him snatching a bite.

Make sure that you don't allow him to eat ANYTIME you are working with him, even in hand. That is the place to start correcting that behavior.

(Ironically, I had to graze Angel in hand when we were trying to get more liquid in her. It was even prescribed on the Drs. orders. Now we have to go back and teach her when it is ok to graze and when it is not. She figured out pretty quick to be a "jerk" and try to snatch grass just walking around. I hate that!

It seems pretty silly to "yell" "An-Gel!" Couldn't come up with anything else to call her!

)

Myrna

 

[shorthorsemom]

I figured the check was more of an "anti-grazing device" vs. an actual training tool, i.e. positioning the head. He carries his head so low to the ground, I can see him snatching a bite.

Make sure that you don't allow him to eat ANYTIME you are working with him, even in hand. That is the place to start correcting that behavior.

(Ironically, I had to graze Angel in hand when we were trying to get more liquid in her. It was even prescribed on the Drs. orders. Now we have to go back and teach her when it is ok to graze and when it is not. She figured out pretty quick to be a "jerk" and try to snatch grass just walking around. I hate that!

It seems pretty silly to "yell" "An-Gel!" Couldn't come up with anything else to call her!

)

Myrna

Oh Myrna, you will LOVE this... When Ike snatches grass during my lesson, my trainer has me practice a halt and marches over and plucks it all out of his mouth... She even opened his mouth and took out every last strand of grass. It is hilarious. He is so smart that on Sunday he did a snatch and grab and then without chewing put his face over to my trainer so she could pluck it out of his mouth... It looked like he was handing it to her. Little stinker, that's when he earned a hole shorter . LOL.

We never let him eat when he is working, He is getting better most of the time... He even learned that he could reach better to snatch grass when he was going up hill, closer to his face. Very determined little dude, but we are being tougher and more determined, but he is always looking for opportunity. He was improving.. but he had a relapse with the overgrown trails this past weekend. Too tempting... he says "but we are walking on FOOD"..

His former owner would let him graze while she was tacking him up to drive. I have to use cross ties and we put a rubber mat down under the cross ties so he wouldn't focus on the grass. He used to be grouchy and you were dodging teeth because we wouldn't let him eat while tacking... Now he gives kisses, much better, at least he doesn't still bite while tacking...Long process a re-train is...

thanks for posting back

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Had you considered using a mesh muzzle?

It is hard when someone else has started a problem- the horse sees no reason why you are suddenly getting all antsy about something he has always done!

My horses, riding and driving (in the past they have been both, of course) have just never been allowed to graze with a bit in- if we were at a show and had some time the kids would unhook the bit or take the bridle off and put a halter on- the horses were never left to graze with a bit in, so it became a habit, and it made life so much easier. The idea of a pony walking along in tack or even a halter, trying to graze, is so alien to me I find it hard to imaginer. DC is a fiend for grazing (he is out now 24/7 but apparently still starving) but a quick tap on the butt brings his head up. Instead of using the reins to haul the head up, use the whip or your voice to drive the horse forward, into contact, and bring the head up that way. You have to keep contact all the time, I know it is frustrating and I am pretty sure I am going to go through a trying time with DC once he is hitched, but the check rein will still stay in the bin that I dumped it in when I unwrapped the harness!

Sure you are using it as a training aid, I see that, but it is not actually teaching him not to graze, it is merely physically preventing him form doing so.

A muzzle would do the same, but allow him to put his head down to where you do not want it to be, without reward, and allow you to chastise and correct him for doing so.

 

[RhineStone]

It sounds like you are on the right track. Yup, it does take a long time to straighten out and retrain someone else's mistakes, ESPECIALLY when it involves a certain "reward" for the horse or the horse had a traumatic experience. Then we are talking Post Traumatic Stress Disorder!

We are a bit more aggressive about the eating while working behavior. We consider it a safety concern, because they could come up with the rein under the shaft. (Actually, if they get the check rein under the shaft, it is even worse. Been there, done that.

Check came off that instant after we almost flipped the horse!) If they put their head down to graze, we SNATCH it back up with a sharp jab on the reins, along with a "NO!" or "Head up!". I don't care if I am "hurting" his mouth. By golly, I said, "NO" and I mean it!

I want it to make a lasting impression on him so that he thinks twice about doing it again.

I would say that by stopping and taking the grass out of his face, he is getting a "reward" (stopping/resting) for doing that. It's the same for horses that get their tongue over the bit consistently. The first time we stop and fix it. After that, they need to figure it out on their own, and we keep working. "You put it there, now you get it back. And no, we aren't giving you a break to do it."

Usually the work in hand with the grazing problem translates so well that we don't have to snatch very often. Actually, I can't remember the last time I had to do that with one of our horses.

Myrna

 

[shorthorsemom]

Thanks all for the feedback. I do think we are on the right track. He is doing awesome. He is happy and working hard. My trainer is cool and has many years experience with both minis and biggies. She runs with the big dogs in CDE and I trust her judgement. She is my friend and she gives me lessons practically for free. I can only go by the way Ike is responding and that is all in a positive direction and I am very proud.

We really hadn't had the snatch grab issue for over 6 months, but the grass was high due to mucho rain and no mowing... we hadn't proofed him for driving in deep grass yet.

It is very hard to explain everything by typing it out so I think my lack of writing skills is drawing more fire than I intended... If you were there and watching, I think you would agree that we are on the right track.

I love the way Ike holds his head. He looks at the trail and watches where his feet go like an old western pleasure quarterhorse. I know my trainer wants to lose the check eventually, but not yet. She is awesome. She actually jogs along with me and stays very close to keep us out of trouble.

I do drive him forward rather than snatch his head back up.

Many changes in this last year and Ike is blooming... I got a new lighter better balanced cart. I got a great new harness, and I lost almost 37 pounds so Ike doesn't struggle to pull me up hills. We are a team and proud of it. :yesI love this forum and I am hooked on miniature horses. They brought me back to horses after a bad wreck and put a smile on my face like in the one photo where Ike and I are running up a hill. I forgot how fun it was to run with horses. YIPPEE....

 

[hobbyhorse23]

I don't think you're "drawing fire" at all, Adair. Folks are just offering constructive advice for what they see as a problem. No harm meant!

We all know you're doing a good job.

I would say that by stopping and taking the grass out of his face, he is getting a "reward" (stopping/resting) for doing that. It's the same for horses that get their tongue over the bit consistently. The first time we stop and fix it. After that, they need to figure it out on their own, and we keep working. "You put it there, now you get it back. And no, we aren't giving you a break to do it."

Depending on circumstances I may stop abruptly, march up and rip out the grass then hop right back in and make the horse move again but generally speaking if he tries to graze he gets made to work so hard he doesn't have time to think about trying again. They sure can be sneaky about it though! Kody makes a conscious decision to ignore the smack of the whip until he's got a mouthful when ground-driving and that's when he gets both a sharp yank in the mouth and a sidecheck for awhile.

It may only mechanically prevent him, but on the other hand it gives him an immediate and sharp jab in the mouth far faster than I can which is a teaching aid in and of itself.

I tried to reply to this thread back when you first posted but Mom's computer ate my reply and I didn't have time to repost it so I'll try again now. In short your breeching and cart appear fine but your saddle is too far forward so there isn't enough distance between the checkhook tab and the neckstrap to let it lay right. Have you considered using something like modified quarterstraps (a strap from the breeching under the belly down to the girth) to hold the girth back until Ike loses a little weight? It might help with keeping everything spaced right.

Leia

 

[shorthorsemom]

I don't think you're "drawing fire" at all, Adair. Folks are just offering constructive advice for what they see as a problem. No harm meant!

We all know you're doing a good job.

Depending on circumstances I may stop abruptly, march up and rip out the grass then hop right back in and make the horse move again but generally speaking if he tries to graze he gets made to work so hard he doesn't have time to think about trying again. They sure can be sneaky about it though! Kody makes a conscious decision to ignore the smack of the whip until he's got a mouthful when ground-driving and that's when he gets both a sharp yank in the mouth and a sidecheck for awhile.

It may only mechanically prevent him, but on the other hand it gives him an immediate and sharp jab in the mouth far faster than I can which is a teaching aid in and of itself.

I tried to reply to this thread back when you first posted but Mom's computer ate my reply and I didn't have time to repost it so I'll try again now. In short your breeching and cart appear fine but your saddle is too far forward so there isn't enough distance between the checkhook tab and the neckstrap to let it lay right. Have you considered using something like modified quarterstraps (a strap from the breeching under the belly down to the girth) to hold the girth back until Ike loses a little weight? It might help with keeping everything spaced right.

Leia

I can't picture what the modified quarter straps would look like. Ikes rounded belly just sucks the saddle right up to where it ends up, too far forward. Hence the use of the longer check hook tab for now. When we used the regular length checkhook tab it pulled the saddle even farther forward so we ended up with a middle of the road fit, rather than where we want to be. Ike is gaining hair like crazy which even farther morphs the equipment. Just when I think we are where we should be, we start making changes again. I guess it is a never ending battle.

I think the side check does correct him quicker than I can react which is why my trainer still has it on even though she hates checks in general. He had gotten so much better, but driving in the longer grass for one lesson and it felt like we were back where we started.

I asked for critique and welcome it and actually was glad to hear that there are others that go without the side check.. I questioned my trainer about her desire to get rid of it, so it was good to hear that there are others with the same feeling... Feels like we are on track. I just didn't want anybody to think I was using something on Ike that was bad for him as an easy way out for the snatch and grab issue and that we were working on it as part of a whole training package, not just one point.

Ike also doesn't mind the sharp jab so much which is why we are doing more than using the check to fix the problem. My inexperience still has me letting him win too easily, he is VERY quick. he is so food motivated that he will drag an entire stalk of corn along trying to figure out how to eat it while he is moving. Good think he isn't spooky. Thanks for posting and thanks for all the tips... Myrna, Leia and all of you, terrific feedback... I couldn't WAIT to post my photos to see what you all thought of my set up and how my new harness looked with the aerocrown. My old harness is also made by Mr Esh, but the bridle had box keepers and the new harness is a step up and hooray, no brass to polish. I plan to use the old one to get Chips driving, take care, Adair

 

[hobbyhorse23]

I can't picture what the modified quarter straps would look like. Ikes rounded belly just sucks the saddle right up to where it ends up, too far forward. Hence the use of the longer check hook tab for now. When we used the regular length checkhook tab it pulled the saddle even farther forward so we ended up with a middle of the road fit, rather than where we want to be.

Oh yes, forgot to say you needed to shorten your backstrap to help hold the saddle back.

Here's a couple of pictures that show quarter straps. Now keep in mind on a pairs harness where you normally see these, they connect all the way up to the breastcollar via the false martingale to keep it from being pulled forward off the horses' chests by the pole when they go to brake. The arrangement I'm suggesting for you would simply go up to the girth itself and no further.

Team Donk

Team Donk 1

I asked for critique and welcome it and actually was glad to hear that there are others that go without the side check.. I questioned my trainer about her desire to get rid of it, so it was good to hear that there are others with the same feeling... Feels like we are on track.

Most ADS drivers dislike sidechecks. I don't mind them adjusted loosely for the purposes we've discussed, but truly abhor that hollow, ewe-necked look so many horses get from being checked improperly into a headset they can't hold on their own. Ick!! And once the horse has learned his manners the loose check isn't needed, so why have it flopping around cluttering up the picture? That's my feeling, anyway. I have no problem with leaving it there in a circumstance like yours.

Leia