Scam or nutcases

[Margot]

In the last year I have had two rather unusual prospective buyer experiences and now I wonder if they are just crazy people having fun in a sick way. Last Fall I had someone ask about buying some horses and he wanted to come pick them up right away, I said that was fine but he had to bring a cashiers check or cash, than he said his wife was very sick and could not make a long trip, from where he said he lived it would have been maybe a 10 hour round trip. So I offered to meet him half way but he kept putting me off saying the weather was bad and he had to keep taking his wife to the doctor and how awful it was for him that she was so sick. I said I would wait if he sent me a downpayment but he never did saying he did not have time and finally he sent a nasty note about my asking for money to hold the horses. The last note I got was supposed to be from his wife saying he had left her because she was dying and he could not stand to watch her die and she asked if I wanted one of their horses as a gift for all my trouble. I thought it was all very strange but than truth is often stranger than fiction. Last week I had a man e-mail me about buying four horses for his wife and children to show in 4-H and play with, I sent pictures, pedigrees and information on the horses he was interested in, at first he wanted to make payments but I said I would have to hold the papers until they were paid for and he was not happy with that so he said he would get the money and pay all at once. I wrote and mentioned that he had never given me his last name or where he lived and that I would require a cashiers check for the horses. I than got a very nasty note saying I was treating him like a counterfitter because he was going to bring cash, it was a fairly large amount that I would not want to carry in cash, and to forget the whole thing. I do not think I was being unreasonable in either case and if I had not had the experience last Fall this one would not have made me suspicious. Just wondering if this has ever happened to anyone else ? When you are placing your precious horses in someones home I think you need to be a little careful about where they are going and sadly there are a lot of dishonest people out there, or else very touchy people who are insulted if you ask for cashiers checks. I tend to think the best of people but after awhile you just get bad feelings. Any comments of similar experiences would be appreciated.

 

[lildrummer]

As we know, most people chose good, a few chose the dark side of life. We are not always taught how to protect ourselves. If Red Flags go off, listen to your inner voice. It is usually the truth.

I like to deal w/people I know their history and or patterns in life. Not always possible I know. I believe to see good in people, but watch and hear what they do and say. What they do is more important than what they say. If bring a cashiers ck offends someone, you do not want to deal with them.

Good luck and most people are honest caring people. Just keep that thought.

I do not sale horses, but have delt w/the public alot in many ways.

Best wishes,

Lildrummer

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Very strange indeed. You have lost nothing IMO, better sales like that just go away. Even if it was a legitimate buyer, seems with the kind of attitude they exhibited before the sale they would have been unhappy with SOMETHING(or perhaps everything) after the sale and you'd never have gotten any peace. I've been there and ended up with the horse back in my own pen (saddle horse)needing weight etc and the 'buyer' telling unpleasant untruths about me to anyone who would listen (such as that I was responsible for the horse's now deplorable condition) Nope I think you 'dodged a bullet ' there.

 

[LittleRibbie]

I think there ARE wierdos out there and unfortunatly they seem to really enjoy pestering you.If I was a seller I would want a cashiers check, if I didnt know the person. But even buying something from someone I dont know I send cashiers or money orders always. first off..its more convenient for the person recieving the $$ ( no waiting until it clears ) and 2nd. the computer savy thieves/people today are completely copying checks with routing numbers, acct #, these counterfit checks are very real looking AND they now have your signature that they can copy as well. For the extra couple $$ for a cashiers check ...its well worth the aggrivation.

 

[Minimor]

Your described types of buyer are familiar to me, even though I have not sold or even advertised many horses for sale. Not just horses for that matter, different inanimate things I've advertised for sale different times--these buyers are everywhere!

It's more important, though, when it's animals we're trying to sell. After all, if I were to sell a lawn mower to a bad home, it's really not that big of a deal!

I tend to figure that if you have to work too hard to make a sale--make too many concessions or accept terms that you aren't happy about--then it's a deal that shouldn't be made.

 

[Marty]

Its not that easy to buy a horse from me unless I know you.

Selling some of my horses is hurting me terribly and I have to know they are going to be ok.

I go to great lengths to find out what I need to know before I take any money. It really does pay off too because I am such a trusting person by nature, but not anymore when it comes to the welfare of my animals.

Just yestarday I checked on someone wanting to buy my black and white pinto mare Angel. The sob story I got about a single mom and her child was in fact true......execpt she's running a mini mill of more than 40 head right now and she's quite the horse trader. So much for the little kid who desperately needed a horse to boost her confidence.

Buyer Beware

Seller Bewarer

 

[iowa]

I sold a gelding a few years ago on contract. I knew the people so thought all would be alright. They did make some payments on him, but then it was very hard to get the final two payments. This woman went so far as to tell me her daughter commited suicide and had died and she was so upset she had to go to a faculity and could not finish the payments. After a few months of trying to contact the family I discovered they had moved away. Even with a contract, the lawyer I contacted said it would be really hard to get the money. Luckily it was only a couple hundred left, but I learned never to let a horse go without getting full payment. I am not a banker. Only last month I found the daughter on Facebook alive and well!!!

 

[Horse Feathers]

I have bought 3 horses with payments.

Rule 1 - Horse must be in good shape

Rule 2 - I dont want to take the horse before I have paid you in full (my check must clear your bank and not bounce)

These are my personal rules. When I sell a animal I follow the same rules. We raise and sell wild duck and have been burned a few times, Live and Learn

Those people sound like scammers

 

[Margot]

I realize I may be way too trusting and will be much more careful in the future. My last e-mail from him said Wal Mart is happy to take cash so why are you asking for a cashiers check. I am not selling stuff from Walmart but living creatures that I love. I should have known when he said he lived in a neighboring state but was not willing to come see the horses in person until pickup time that he was not emotionally invested in buying the horses. I have sold a few horses far away with just pictures but only after a lot of information went back and forth and all the buyers were more than happy with what they bought from me. This is becoming harder and harder to do and I have been very lucky so far but I know you cannot control what happens to a horse after it is sold. Usually when people come and spend hours here visiting and interacting with the horses you can get a lot better feel of what they are like but as other people have said, in e-mails they can tell you anything and none of it may be true. That is why if at all possible buyers should go look at the horses and sellers should meet the buyers in person.

 

[GeorgeandHumble]

I've had a hard week with sellers (Miniature horses) and buyers (big horses). I have come to the conclusion that buying and selling is a major headache.

 

[MindyLee]

I must have got lucky to find a known breeder in Wisconson who trusted me when I bought my stud from their farm. I couldent pay the asking amount all at once, so I asked if it was possible to make payments till he was paid off. Owner agreed and we both signed a contract. After a year in on paying payments, She said it was ok to take him home but couldnt get his regs. or breed him till he was paid in full. I agreed and soon as I paid him off, the owner sent all his paperwork to me right away. I was so greatful and soooo happy for someone to compleatly trust me as I was a total stranger. I wish everyone was honest with a great ending like mine and not out to take advanage and rip folks off! What is this world coming too!

Good luck and watch out for those scammers~

 

[Shari]

When I sold the Fjord and Black Icelandic mare..... boy did I get some serious nut cases. Only sane ones bought my horses and that was after meeting them and getting referances. The buyer of the Black Icelandic flew out twice to spend time with her. So I knew she was serious, in fact the best rider I have ever seen.

One reason I don't breed any more.... can't stand dealing with the general public.

If those people keep bugging you...just ignore them, normally people like that will get the picture sooner or later.

 

[~Lisa~]

I guess I would as a buyer wonder why cash is not good enough for you as well.

I have bought every horse I have from other states and not one did I see prior to purchase oh well I take that back I bought one at Nationals she is the only horse I have seen prior to purchase.

It is no reflection of the time of home or care I give my horses I simply do not own a private jet nor have funds to to all over th country looking at horses.

I have never had a seller say oh no you must be dishonest or not a good caring horse owner since you are wanting to pay cash and not spend time coming out of state to see the horses during your search lol

You have to do what is comfortable for you and they have to do what is comfortable for them. Just cause your comfort levels are different it doesnt make one side dishonest, a scammer or a bad person for that matter

Buyers take as big of a risk as sellers when it comes to any purchase. I often hear sellers say good home a must you must truly care and love this horse of course that sounds great and is something we all want for our horses however ...

The only way to ensure that is not not breed and not sell any horses that way you know they have the long term home with the care you desire.

 

[Annabellarose]

Why wouldn't you take cash and just drive it straight to the bank if you were worried about having that much cash on hand? A cashier's check can be faked, it is just a piece of paper. There have been so many faked cashier's check payments made to people in connection with internet fraud. When my husband and I bought our house we had to pay the downpayment with a cashier's check from our bank and I remember that it looked so cheesy and easy to fake. I don't EVER take any kind of check as payment for a horse, I want CASH. This day and age I don't think I'd take a PayPal payment for a horse as it is sooooo easy to do a chargeback as a buyer and so hard to prove you provided a good product as a seller.

 

[Margot]

I guess these days nothing is safe, the buyer accused me of thinking he was offering me funny money, I did not think that but it is certainly as possible as forged checks. I just did not want to handle all that cash, it was not just a thousand dollars. My problem was his violent reaction to my request, his refusal to give me his name and address and his bad attitude about me asking him any questions. At the end he told me where he lived and it is probably about a five hour drive. If it was just a few thousand I would have been happy to take cash but I did not think asking for a cashiers check was unreasonable or he would go into a rage about it. Ordinarily people do not want the horses in a few days and I am happy to take personal checks and wait for them to clear while the horses are still here. The whole thing left me very upset and probably he is too but he could not seem to see my side at all and was very rude and misrepresented all the things I told him about transferring papers and how he had to be a member. I have so many horses that never got transferrred after they were sold that I prefer to do it myself but he seemed to think this was some plot against him and even when I said he could have the papers and do it himself he accused my of micromanaging. I am just happy that most of my buyers have been lovely people willing to work with you and his attitude was so unusual that I am still wondering if the whole thing was some kind of joke he was playing.

 

[Minimor]

Some people do just like to deal in cash. I don't like carrying much cash--just too much crime around here & I don't feel safe walking on the street with a wad of cash in my purse. I bought a trailer a couple years ago & the guy wanted cash--that was fine, but I made him meet me at my bank so I could withdraw the money & immediately hand it over to him!

I have taken cash for a large sale--I tuck it in a drawer & hope the house doesn't burn down before I can get it to the bank! These days I prefer to take cash rather than any sort of check, unless there is time for that check to clear the bank. Thing is, most of the scammers offer a cashiers check, and those are as fake as anything can be. (They also look very real--look how many different people have taken the fake check to their bank & asked if it was fake, & the bank staff couldn't tell without checking into the account it is drawn on.) I sold an item last night & the guy handed me a bank issued money order. I'd have preferred cash, but this money order has security features in it & does "pass" my security check using those, so I hope it's okay! I tend to figure that someone coming from Podunk Manitoba isn't likely a sophisticated counterfeiter and won't have access to the printing equipment it would require to print such an authentic looking money order, complete with the appropriate water marks. For all I know of course the biggest counterfeiter in the world could have his setup based in Podunk Manitoba, but I would find that a bit surprising!

 

[Shari]

I guess these days nothing is safe, the buyer accused me of thinking he was offering me funny money, I did not think that but it is certainly as possible as forged checks. I just did not want to handle all that cash, it was not just a thousand dollars. My problem was his violent reaction to my request, his refusal to give me his name and address and his bad attitude about me asking him any questions. At the end he told me where he lived and it is probably about a five hour drive. If it was just a few thousand I would have been happy to take cash but I did not think asking for a cashiers check was unreasonable or he would go into a rage about it. Ordinarily people do not want the horses in a few days and I am happy to take personal checks and wait for them to clear while the horses are still here. The whole thing left me very upset and probably he is too but he could not seem to see my side at all and was very rude and misrepresented all the things I told him about transferring papers and how he had to be a member. I have so many horses that never got transferrred after they were sold that I prefer to do it myself but he seemed to think this was some plot against him and even when I said he could have the papers and do it himself he accused my of micromanaging. I am just happy that most of my buyers have been lovely people willing to work with you and his attitude was so unusual that I am still wondering if the whole thing was some kind of joke he was playing.

Sounds like there were more problems here, than just the cash. If someone got aggressive or rude to me, I sure won't trust them with one of my horses.

All my horses were sold with a very detailed contract, which includes the buyers address, phone and email address and so on, which they have to sign. It protects both buyer and seller.

I also won't sell my horses to anyone that wasn't willing to give this info.

 

[Annabellarose]

If a seller did not want to provide me with the horse's registration certificate at the time of payment/pick up and insisted that I let them do the transfer, I would RUN, not walk, away with my money in hand, even if there was a contract. Contracts are wonderful until you need to hold someone to one and then you may burn through 10 times what a horse costs or is worth trying to get a lawyer and a judge to make the seller make it right for you and still not end up with a resolution. I have been involved with various breeds of horses for over 20 years and I have never, ever heard of anything like this (the seller doing the transfer) in my life, though I am CERTAIN that there will be at least 74 people that post after me saying that is very common in the Miniature Horse world.

LOL

I think if you were uncomfortable with these buyers you had EVERY RIGHT to decide NOT to sell your horses to them, however, I can also understand how/why you got some odd (even offended) responses to your demands. I wouldn't get enraged with you (What right would I have?), but I would POLITELY tell you that I was not comfortable with your demands and that I was sorry that I had wasted your time (and I would certainly feel that you had wasted my time) and that I was going to look elsewhere for what I wanted/needed and why.

I still stand by the fact that a cashier's check is very easy to fake and you do not necessarily need highly specialized equipment to do it (depending upon how gullible your victim is). Information about the rate/frequency of this particular crime is available all over the internet and is constantly in the news, at least in my state. Just last week I heard about someone getting a fake cashier's check for a used car in a city North of here.

 

[~Lisa~]

If a seller did not want to provide me with the horse's registration certificate at the time of payment/pick up and insisted that I let them do the transfer, I would RUN, not walk, away with my money in hand, even if there was a contract.

I agree and would not hand someone thousands of dollars as you say the price was and walk away without papers in hand. If horse is not paid in full of course but once I pay for the horse in full I expect the transfer and papers in my hand

I understand the want - I have plenty of horses I sold that are still in my name and all I have to show I sold them is a copy of the bill of sale but not something I really worry about.

bottom line both parties have to feel comfortable with a sale and it sounds like in this case the personalities just simply didnt mesh

 

[Margot]

I do have a contract and offered to send him a copy, usually I do that people sign it give me a down payment and than pay before the horses leave here. I was not insisting I do the transfer. I explained very carefully that the buyer or seller must be a member and that I would gladly give him all the paperwork with the horses when they were paid for and we could use my number if he did not want to join. He also seemed to think I was planning on charging him to do this although I told him how much the transfers were and that the money was for the registries not me. Since this was supposed to be a secret present I think he was erasing all my e-mails and than just did not remember what I actually told him. I guess it was his nasty response that upset me, he seems to have anger management issues and I would not want my horses in that kind of setup. He could have just said he was not happy with my request and I would have accepted that and moved on. I must lead a sheltered life as I really had no thought of him being any kind of crook and was amazed at his reaction. I suppose the only real safe way to get money is to do a bank wire transfer and in fact I have done that in the past but I was not doubting his honesty just did not want to handle a lot of cash.