Regarding Rowdy.....

[hawkeye]

Just a follow up on the Arenosa thread regarding Rowdy. I too, have heard that Rowdy was "Arenosa", but all we really know about the miniature foundation sires are the recollections and records of the folks who were there....... Tony Greaves article on Rowdy (www.theminiaturehorse.com) is very interesting and informative. He relates that Rowdy was sired by a son of Kewpie Doll's Oracle, named Kewpie's Sun (Kewpie's Sun Of Arenosa, by Kewpie's Topper Of Arenosa, by Kewpie Doll's Oracle was foaled in 1983, long after Rowdy was foaled). Although Rowdy may not be considered "Arenosa" it seems apparent his Shetland heritage is derived from the same bloodlines of the horses that were to become known as "Arenosa". Regardless, his contribution to the Miniature as a breed is history. To quote Mr Greaves, "Quality will tell and goes on telling generation after generation. Rowdy died in 1990 at the age of seventeen, but the show records of his future generations are still being written." I am proud to say I have many of his "future generations".

:

 

[Jean_B]

Just a follow up on the Arenosa thread regarding Rowdy. I too, have heard that Rowdy was "Arenosa", but all we really know about the miniature foundation sires are the recollections and records of the folks who were there....... Tony Greaves article on Rowdy (www.theminiaturehorse.com) is very interesting and informative. He relates that Rowdy was sired by a son of Kewpie Doll's Oracle, named Kewpie's Sun (Kewpie's Sun Of Arenosa, by Kewpie's Topper Of Arenosa, by Kewpie Doll's Oracle was foaled in 1983, long after Rowdy was foaled). Although Rowdy may not be considered "Arenosa" it seems apparent his Shetland heritage is derived from the same bloodlines of the horses that were to become known as "Arenosa". Regardless, his contribution to the Miniature as a breed is history. To quote Mr Greaves, "Quality will tell and goes on telling generation after generation. Rowdy died in 1990 at the age of seventeen, but the show records of his future generations are still being written." I am proud to say I have many of his "future generations".

:

Actually, I think the correct sire of Rowdy is Kewpie Dolls Sun, last owned by C. W. ALLMAND (which is where Rowdy came from) and born in 1965.

 

[hawkeye]

AMHA studbook online lists Rowdy's sire as Kewpies Sun, unregistered with no DOB. CW Allmand is listed as Rowdy's breeder. I didn't look for a Kewpie Doll's Sun under Oracle's foals, but I will

Rowdy's background is interesting... There are probably other sources with other info and that was my point - he was a great stallion and a credit to the breed, regardless

:

 

[hawkeye]

Jean - I did find a Kewpie Doll's Sun by Kewpie Doll's Oracle, foaled in 1965 and C.W. Allmand listed as the owner, on ASPC studbook online. Very interesting, thank you

The plot thickens, LOL!

 

[Tony]

Someone wrote me this morning asking this question (perhaps the same person as the poster). Here was my response, which is my opinion:

"Arenosa is really just a farm name, not a breed, although it has taken on a life of its own. Kewpie Doll's Oracle was an ancestor of several of Audrey Barrett's (Arenosa Farm) ponies and also of Rowdy. Hillswicke Oracle and Streamliner's Kewpie Doll were the parents of Kewpie Doll's Oracle and I am not sure how far down the line Audrey's main herd sires were; grand or great grand get.

So the short answer to your question is that Rowdy and some of "Arenosa" ponies are cousins.

Hope this helps rather than confuses the issue more.

The thing that you need to understand is that in the late 60s Shetlands lost their popularity and many people who had been breeding them sold out, stopped breeding, or quit registering them. Around that time the ASPC required that all ponies be "reinstated" or "reregistered" in an attempt to ascertain how many were still active, but, at least in the case of my family, it had the opposite effect, it made many people angry and they decided to have no part of it. My dad sold his entire herd when the market crashed, caused in part by the huge influx of crossbreeding, which was being done but not admitted by many, around 1970 for $35 per head and they all went to Italy. Audrey was one of the only breeders that continued so when an interest in Shetlands resurfaced her herd was the biggest that was left in Texas. When she sold out the "Arenosa" mystique began."

Thinking about this and taking it a step further, I have a son of Egyptian King and two sons of Orion. If my "bloodlines" became popular after my death and people started promoting "Little America" bloodlines, would that make every miniature offspring from Orion or EK "Little America"? I think not. Hey, why wait 'til I'm dead?

 

[anita]

Tony, its around already.

Much better we got asked several times " Is mare/stallion Tony G's bloodlines?"

To add, we have several Tony G's bloodline mares in our breeding program and breed this year with the same bloodline Little America Silver's Charmer.

Anita

 

[Tony]

:bgrin :aktion033:

:

:

 

[FairytailGlennMinis]

You are already there Tony....already there.

-Amy

 

[Buckskin gal]

I am so glad to hear someone step up and tell it like it is. I too think, from research, that Arenosa is just a farm name. Just as Little King is a farm name, etc. Both producing nice horses.

: Thanks Tony for good information. Mary

 

[nootka]

Tony, i really appreciate your input on this subject. Yes, it is a FARM NAME.

I hate it when people buy a horse based on a farm name alone, or they only identify its "bloodlines" by the farm name, because as we all know, not EVERY horse produced by a farm is fabulously perfect or whatever the "standard" for that farm name may be. I am NOT putting anyone down, just trying to ease a hype for the buyer unaware.

My farm name for example, as small as it is. I have produced about 15 foals in my career. Of those, I would say half are outstanding and of the caliber I want to be remembered for. Half are ranging from one with dwarfism signs (and some would argue, but I call it like I see it, even when it's MINE) to just plain "average" and unsuitable for refining the breed, so were culled from the breeding barn as pets/pleasure animals. Maybe that's a bad comparison, as likely the majority of the industry has not heard of my farm name, but even the biggest farm in business now has horses they produce which are unsuitable for whatever reason, yet they retain the farm name...and anyone that would deny it is fooling themselves, and that's quite the sin, IMO.

In this industry/hobby/pursuit, one must maintain a certain objectiveness and not get caught up in an egotistic attitude of invincibility or over-inflated values.

I have one horse on my property right now that has "Arenosa" in the lines (going to Winnie the Pooh) and while he's pretty (he's the boy in my avatar), he is not necessarily better than my breeding stock (he is a gelding) which has more desirable traits to pass on. It isn't the farm name, the pedigree, the color that makes the horse this or that, it is the horse itself and one has to be very critical and assess their goals carefully.

I've seen bad examples of horses that had the Arenosa in their pedigree considering them 100%, but then that's nothing bad, I just don't know that it's ok to make blanket statements that they are automatically better for whatever reason. If that horse is indeed better, then they deserve all the kudos and admiration, but don't say it's because of the name of their sire, their breeder, etc. Take it all away and if you still have an outstanding horse, then brag away!

Hope noone's offended, I just hate to see people jump on a bandwagon/fad and part ways with a lot of money for something inferior based on a name, etc. etc. when all it takes is a good eye for correctness (first and foremost), and then to be able to see that extra something.

Liz M.

 

[MBhorses]

Hello,

i also have some of Tony G's horses. :aktion033: My first mini foal born has Little America 007 rowdy tornado, little america silver tornado in the bloodlines. We also have a mare with Little America belle storm, little america sesquicentennial tex, little mericas tex belle just to name a few we have in our bloodlines from Tony.

melissa

 

[anita]

To add, we have several Tony G's bloodline mares in our breeding program and breed this year...........

Melissa, I was kidding.

 

[horsedude]

I wish LaVern (Renee Reiten, Lucky Hart Ranch) would add to this post. I think she has probably done more research on Rowdy than anyone in the world. I am going to post a link of an old page that used to be on the Lucky Hart Ranches website. It is a very extended pedigree of Rowdy that Renee had posted on her site a few years back, that she researched in great detail. Here is the link to that page:

http://www.miniatureequine.com/luckyhart/rowdy.html

 

[hawkeye]

Great info and input, everyone

I think everyone could agree that Arenosa is a Shetland bloodline developed by Mrs. Barrett's breeding program and that many of them are registered as miniatures, AMHR and some AMHA as well. The analogy to Little King Farm was good and there are others as well.... I heard something about the "Little America" bloodline,

: Tony saying Rowdy was a "cousin" to the Arenosa line as opposed to being considered an Arenosa was good also.

Arenosas are not any more perfect than any of the other bloodlines - there are poor individuals in every bloodline, and I agree that a buyer should judge each individual on correctness of conformation and if the animal represents what that particular buyer is looking for. Thank heavens we all don't want the very same type of horse :bgrin I don't think Arenosas are a fad, it is just that many of them are doing well in the show pen along with many other "lines" i.e., the Michigan horses, etc.

But I will say that bloodlines DO count and well thought out breeding programs will produce (again, for the most part) uniform, superior animals. Someone posted a very good article on the "line breeding" thread that explained the value of a line breeding program (of which the Arenosa line is an example) to develop a type that breeds true. It also talked about the value of hybrid vigor - an animal that is an outcross of bloodlines, to produce outstanding individuals. The example they used was Secretariat. He was a superior individual in every way except in the breeding shed where he was a great disappointment. He did not breed true. Here again it is what the buyer is looking for.....

I have enjoyed reading the replys to my original post, different opinions, and Tony's historical perspective is priceless! Thank you all...

 

[kaykay]

from people i have talked to what set Audrey apart was her ruthless culling of her own herd. To gain the reputation that she did she had to be producing superior horses. And she stuck with that vision even when the market went kaput. Also from what i hear she was some of the first to get the size down to miniature and keep the shetland papers. (so many others threw out the shetland papers)

I have been lucky to see in person 100 percent arenosa horses and the ones i have seen are simply outstanding. getitia has a 100 percent arenosa mare that i believe is amha/amhr/aspc and she will knock your socks off! Maybe shell come post

 

[LaVern]

I visited with Mrs. Barret a few times years and years ago. And my what a lovely nice lady. And she told me that she culled heavily, and gave so many away that didn't meet her criteria. But what I didn't ask her is, if she registered and put the farm name(Arenosa) on the culls.

There is the delema. Should I paper those that are not top horses. Boy, it just kills me to see a horse out there in the showring or even on someones website that didn't turn out too good and carries my name.

I have raised and registered miniature horses that are never going to do anything to help, what I hope will become a breed some day and I am sorry for that.

 

[LaVern]

Hosedude. I want to respond to your request, but don't really know what to say without getting thrown off board. First of all I will never regret going Rowdy and Buckeroo. I chose those two horses because there was at least some way of researching their background through the Shetland Registry.

However, I feel that alot of my research was a waste of time.

When I started taking this miniature business serious, it became almost an obsession to dig and find out all I could. So I would talk to anyone that would talk to me and answer my guestions. Most of these people that I would talk to were as old and forgetful as I am now. But thats about all you had to go on then, was some old boy's memory.

Then late one night after a long bull session with some old boys it all clicked. One of them said,"ANYTHING FOR THE IMPROVEMENT OF THE BREED" I had heard it before,but hat night it sunk in. And that's the night I fell in love the AMHA, DNA Parent qualified. I am a B breeder, but I love AMHA for that reason.

If we can become a breed some day I hope no one has to rely on old duffers like me to, To say," Well that look comes from so and so because so an so wasn't really so and so."

Perhaps this is not the right thread to put this on, because I feel that Mrs. Barret was one of the many that did it the honest way and you could have Parent Qualified those horses and everyone would have come back right.

 

[Reble]

Thanks LaVern,

My hubby and I believe the same thing, AMHA, DNA Parent qualified, that is also why we stay with AMHA/AMHR horses.

Only been around minis a few years, and some of the story we have heard.