Red Bag Delivery

[gatorbait4sure]

Does anyone know where i can find the video of the red bag delivery posted here a few weeks ago?

I'd like to have it to show my family Just In Case!

 

[TheCaseFamily00]

You might try paintedsunminiaturehorses.com I belive that is their website.

 

[Genie]

http://blip.tv/play/hP1WgcDJMAA

 

[HGFarm]

Yes, Beth and family at Painted Sun here in AZ have many educational and also fun videos on their website and recently had posted on our local group that they had a red bag baby, which they did a quick and amazing job with and she is doing fantastic.

 

[yorkie09]

Wow...that video is amazing!

 

[Robin]

Red Bag delivery- it is really simple (and very common in minis)- and it really can be "no big deal". If the first presenting sign during labor is a red bubble (it is the lining of the placenta that is normally attached to the uterine wall), then cut it open- use something sharp as it is really thick and slippery. After it is open, you should then see the white, amniotic sac (hopefully)- open it - it is usally much thinner and easier to open. Then see if there are 2 hooves and a nose in the vaginal cavity. If so- go ahead and gently pull on those hooves and help the foal out. As soon as the nose and neck are thru, clear the air way and pull the foal out. Be certain you stimulate it to breath ASAP. Rub its chest- sometime pushing on it like rescusititaing it is needed. As soon as it takes the first breath- you are good to go- you can concentrate on helping it out the rest of the way. You will find the entire placenta usually falls right out on top of the foal.

The urgency of a red bag delivery as with any delivery is to be certain the foal takes a first breath. When you have a red bag- the foal is not getting the needed oxygen supply that comes from the uterine wall thru the placenta into the umbilical cord and to the foal during labor. The foals basically are oxygen deficient and can be non responsive at birth. The more stimulating you can do as early in the delivery as possible is best for the foal. It is great to have one of the small oxygen tanks available as well- if not for the foal- for yourself!

The biggest problem with red bag deliveries is if the foal is not in the correct position and you have to go in and find it to get it out. That is why as soon as you open the red bag, yuo open the amniotic sac and see what the situation is. Waiting at that point for a body part to emerge is not ideal as you are wasting very valuable time. This is when timing is crucial becuase the foal is not getting the oygen supply it needs thru the umbilical cord. Again- the faster yuo can get the head up and out even without legs- the better it is. We have even gone ahead and intibated a foal at this point with no legs presenting and began breathing for it if we are concerned we can not get it out quickly. However- not everyone has that option.

If you are present at the first signs of labor and you see a red bag- within 30 secs- you should be able to know what the status is of the foal. If you have the nose and 2 hooves- you should be able to have that foal out in a short enough period of time to get it stimuated and breathing just fine (assuming the rest comes out as planned too). It is really a situation that if you can be calm and attentive- it is not much different than any other delivery. However- if you are not present at the start and you are uncertain of what to do- you can lose a foal very easily in this scenario.

Hope that helps. Robin-LKF

Again- for more information about Red Bag deliveries and other foaling scenarios - please come to the Little King Farm Foaling Seminar March 27th. We cover all of this and give you live demonstrations, show pictures and answer all these questions and more.

 

[Ellen]

We have delivered a few over the years. This the reason I am really wanting that o2 tank.

 

[MountainMeadows]

Another thing to add to your "what's up" list is to actually slip in. I know that a lot of breeders will wait until they feel that there is a problem, but I go in to check presentation on pretty much all my foaling mares at the onset of labor. The red bag will feel quit a bit different from the white sac - it feels like a wet tennis ball (sorry, that is all I can figure out how to describe it). There is a texture there that normally would be a slippery, clean feeling sac if it is the amniotic sac. If I feel the "textured" sac my next step is a flashlight to check and see for sure, and then I go full throttle into breaking the red bag and on to the steps that Robin has outlined - again, it is all about time.

Stacy

 

[gatorbait4sure]

Thank you all!

dru

 

[Joanne]

Here is an article on foal resusitation from our website. It is worth knowing before you are foaling.

We have had to do this a couple of times and it is wonderful knowing how to save the foal.

Foal Resusitation (CPR)

 

[rubyviewminis]

I have been reading and printing information from this site for three years *in case* I decided to breed. Thank goodness I did! I have a sneaky mare I bought and brought home Sept. 22nd, long story short, I read on here where to feel for foal movement and Woo Hoo there is an active baby in there.

I was suspicious when momma started eating anything in sight when she normally is a *take it or leave it* eater. I am so excited and scared to death! She is due first week of May.

Anyway - thank you for the video's on your website Painted Sun, wish I were still in AZ. Questions: I am looking at camera systems, so what have any of you used? I see they now have wireless baby video monitors with night vision (wish I had had those with my children!) All my horses were vaccinated Jan. 14th for 5 way, West Nile, Rabies since the vet was already here for an emergency with our saddle horse. Now what do I do about my mare's vaccination schedule? Glad I asked about the Tetanus shots, I confirmed there was a foal the next day! This is my mare's second foal, she foaled at 342 days gestation last year. I have an appt. with my vet later this week, but would really like the advice of those experienced on here. And if all goes well I would love to post pictures. But I have never been able to upload pictures to this website, I have no problems with other forums I belong to. And I have directed other new mini owners to this site to get help and information.

Sorry to ramble on but I am still in shock and very nervous. I have the foaling kit started, stall on the ready,I will use the grass hay for bedding, got her started on alfalfa from grass hay, started her on more Safechoice than the little she was on, they all get beet pulp soaked in the morning, AND due to great advice on here, ordered the Mother Nature's milk test strips, ( I worked in a lab previously, and am a medical assistant) so some of this I am experienced in, I was also a vet. asst. about 28 years ago, but things have sure changed!

 

[Texasspook]

First let me say the video for the red bag was great to watch! Here's my "but" and there is no offense to them they did a great job. I know it is easy to get caught up in the moment in a situation that calls for our help.

I have always been taught and from everything I have ever read you DO NOT cut the umbilical cord immediately after birth. Let it break at the natural breaking point when the foal and/ or mare begin to get up and move around. The foal still needs the blood that is flowing to it for 5 to 15 minutes after birth. Also never cut the cord, twist it until it breaks and not until around 10-15 minutes. If it still bleeds after breaking then clamp or tie off. I know everyone has their own opinions on how things should be done so please don't think I am condoning anyone just sharing what I've learned. Thanks.

 

[Miniv]

I agree........There's been a lot of excellent information about the Red Bag Births.......(Placenta Previa) I recommend people to GOOGLE several different phrases for more information -- "Red Bag Birth"; "Placenta Previa"; and "Red Bag Delivery"..... There will be different sites that come up.

One thing that needs to addressed is how to break/cut the umbilical cord. The BEST way is for it to happen naturally of course. The second best is to locate the thin/weak point along the cord and to pull it apart. The third way is by tying the cord off with a sterile string or cord and then cutting. No matter which way, the "raw" end needs to be doused with gentle iodine or nolvasan several times over!

The final concern with a foal born under these types of conditions is that it does NOT become SEPTIC!!!! A clean umbilical break, plenty of oxygen to the brain, more than enough colostrum, and a good clean enviornment for the foal's birth will provide it a higher than normal chance for a healthy beginning.

 

[Julie/Azariah]

Excellent information from all of you, the video is very helpful.

Thank you.

I am anxiously awaiting the 2010 kids!

 

[HGFarm]

If this is a placenta previa, and the placenta is already detached and/or out of the mare.... why would it be an issue to go ahead and cut/tear the cord with the baby?? If there is no oxygen flow through this cord, there is no blood flow any more either.

Excellent info and stuff from everyone here!! And so crucial at this time of year with foaling season started- may save a few lives again as folks will recongize what they need to when/if it happens. I have never had a red bag baby (Oh knock on wood!!) but feel confident I would have no trouble handling one by what I have read and learned from others.

That is what is most to be understood - time is of the essence with these type of births.

 

[Miniv]

Laurie (HGFarm) -- You are correct in regard to the lack of oxygen passing through the blood in the umbilical cord with a "red bag" placenta previa birth.

However, the method of breaking the cord is important as the foal is much more vulnerable to infection, once the entire placenta hits open air with the foal still connected. There is still passive blood passing through the umbilicus.

Because the exposure to bacteria is heightened prior to the foal receiving antibodies via colostrum, the risk of scepticemia is also heightened.

 

[HGFarm]

Augh, gotcha Miniv. I try to tear mine if I have to seperate cords, but had one one time that I think was really made of steel cable, LOL and had to cut it...

 

[rubyviewminis]

Thank you Miniv, that is just what my vet explained yesterday. I thought the same thing watching the video as hgfarm, but my vet made me look from the perspective of all the things that will expose a foal to septic infection, PRIOR to ingestion of colostrum to line the digestive tract and give immunity. I was asking about scenarios for foaling problems. Just what an inexperienced person (with foaling) like me would not wrap their head around.

He also suggested using a 1 to 10 dilution (will have to look at my notes to verify the dilution he suggested) of Nolvasan for the umbilicus instead of tamed iodine or other iodine containing products. The idea being studies recently from UC Davis pointed to the fact that iodine containing products would cauterize but also create damaged or destroyed tissue; sometimes all over the belly or legs, such as if the foal is moving around; which is too caustic to the tender tissues of the foal. Whereas the Nolvasan solution woud provide bacterial and viral control without creating any damaged *wounds* so to speak on the foal to worry about. Very interesting point since when I dipped my newborn miniature goats umbilical cords I myself thought they were so tiny I had better be careful.

Any thoughts on this? I am relieved he is up-to-date on the latest research/products/or procedures.

 

[Miniv]

We've used both straight nolvasan and gentle iodine at different times. I think there is an argument for both. The one for nolvasan your vet already mentioned. The one for iodine is that it dries out the umbilicus faster than nolvasan. And bacteria prefers moisture to travel with.